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Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools


Olaf 6 | 956
23 Mar 2010 #331
Well it's been one of the sticky points for ages :)


  • If you dont comply you will be... adjusted :)
z_darius 14 | 3,969
24 Mar 2010 #332
Is that a joke? There are many secular nations out there that have high standards for economy and quality of life. The Netherlands, France, Belgium, United Kingdom, Ireland, Sweden, Germany, Norway, Finland, Canada, Denmark, Malaysia, Israel, Iceland... and that is just off the top of my head. Sweden is the prime example, as it is the most rich, happiest, successful, well-educated country in the world, and also the most secular

I don't think you did your homework. In every single country you named the majority of the population (more than 50%) are members of one form of a religious organization or another. In Canada the Catholic school system is publicly funded through tax dollars (no other denominational schools are).

Since the topic is about religious symbols in Polish public institutions... in your "happiest" Sweden" over 70% of people belong to the Church of Sweden. Their flag depicts ... a cross. Look at other Scandinavian flags too.

Oh, and don't forget your very own British flag. It is a collage of crosses, and not just of any crosses but those associated with Catholic Saints. Yes, the good secular people of Britain wave Christian crosses on a daily basis, in and outside the UK. It is their tradition.

In Poland a cross has also to do with tradition and the Catholic religion has an important historic value. I gather your knowledge of Poland's history is pretty limited if you can't see it. If any symbol could be associated with the country's political roots then a cross would easily compete with the white eagle. Poland's statehood is counted since 966. Check on your own why.

However, I think Grzegorz's point was a little more poignant than that which has to do with economy and the alleged happiness resulting from it (is a bunch of LCD TV sets really a sign of happiness?)

This has to do with certain void that is starting to appear in some of the countries you named. That void is of spiritual nature and I believe that humans are spiritual, regardless of whether it is through organized religion or not. That void is easily filled by those who keep their faith, in this case Muslims. That is the only way I can explain to myself conversions to Islam by the "agnostic" citizens of Western and Northern EU. Imagine, how desperate for spirituality must someone be if the person is a woman and she converts to Islam, a religion that considers women of trivial worth.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
24 Mar 2010 #333
having no religion does not cause problems.

lol, so lack of fundamental principles is good? Oh ke...
Hey people lack of religious belief is good. Nobody says it's not allowed to kill anyone! Only the state! But we know how to avoid them right? :D

Wohoo murder/rape/zipp tolerance towards anybody as they have a soul that could be converted! No respect for anyone WOHOO! Let's rock! :P

(Do you see my point?)

But doesn't "The Bible" say that Jews are God's chosen people?

Read a bit more and you will also see that the first Christians were Jews too. Oh no! The horror! LOL
George8600 10 | 637
24 Mar 2010 #334
.....isn't around 97-98% of Poland Catholic and officially the most Catholic country in the world?

lol, yea I think the crosses are staying.
Olaf 6 | 956
24 Mar 2010 #335
Depends who makes the statistics:)
But the number is high. However, it's high also due to the fact that there are many people who simply wouldn't "sign off" the Church. It's the only way to make true statistics and stop being percieved as such

most Catholic country in the world

According to my knowledge around 500.000 people did this but the number is increasing and probable a lot more people that disagree with the Church should do it. If not the crosses will stay and everything else too.
George8600 10 | 637
31 Mar 2010 #336
Depends who makes the statistics:)

Europollmeter (EU), CIA World Fact Book, World Development Report (UN/World Bank). Also I didn't mean most Catholic by number, but rather by porportion, and judging by some latin countries I could say it's probably in Europe and not the world.
Crow 137 | 7,710
5 Apr 2010 #337
dilemma

UK: Crucifix banned at hospital where Muslims allowed to wear headscarves

Daily Caller 31 March 2010
europenews.dk/en/node/30973

A Christian nurse was 'forced to choose between her job and her faith' after being ordered to remove her crucifix at a hospital where Muslim staff wore headscarves unchallenged, a tribunal heard yesterday.

Shirley Chaplin, 54, said she had been wearing the religious symbol around her neck without complaint for 31 years before she was ordered to hide it away.

But the grandmother claims that after refusing to comply and then pointing out that two women doctors were allowed to wear headscarves, she was moved to a desk job (...)

lesser 4 | 1,311
5 Apr 2010 #338
Crow, even if they ban Muslim symbolism this is just an excuse to ban Christian symbolism. Locals are forbidden to do what their ancestors always did, the level of freedom in Europe is more and more reduced under socialist boot.
polishmeknob 5 | 155
5 Apr 2010 #339
It muslim french students cannot wear a skarf over their heads.... I think its also justified that we remove Crucifixes from our schools IMMEDIATELY.

France doesn't allow crucifixes or Stars of David to be worn in school either. It doesn't exclusively ban headscarves, but all trappings of faith in public schools.
lesser 4 | 1,311
5 Apr 2010 #340
So you admit that such regulations are in agreement only with line of the Church of Atheism?
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
6 Apr 2010 #341
A Christian nurse was ‘forced to choose between her job and her faith

OUTRAGEOUS! Would they do something like this in Norway I would start a guerrilla!! ;(
Nika 2 | 507
6 Apr 2010 #342
UK: Crucifix banned at hospital where Muslims allowed to wear headscarves

How is it possible?
nomaderol 5 | 726
6 Apr 2010 #343
This is acceptable as the cross may give harm to the patient accidentally while headscarf will prevent the hair to fall. But, outside of the hospital, a nurse has to open her hair as it is not healthy for her head skin that needs air through the hair channels.
Nika 2 | 507
6 Apr 2010 #344
This is acceptable as the cross may give harm to the patient accidentally while headscarf will prevent the hair to fall.

???? How has a cross ever hurt a patient ????
If you read the note, you will see that it was clearly for religious reasons. If a cross is not allowed, a headscarf or David's star or any other religious symbol shouldn't be allowed either - simple.
nomaderol 5 | 726
6 Apr 2010 #345
It may hurt cause it is a metal. Harm can be either mechanically or magnetically. Dont be selfish, think a patient in coma. It is like bowtie is not allowed when working at lathe turning machine in the industry. If they are using David Star in metal or as chain or like bowtie, it too should be forbidden at hospital. If headscarf is used in metal, same, should be forbidden at the hospital. Headscarf should be forbidden outside of the hospital as it will not be healthy for her and also may scare the kids as they look like thefts trying to hide their heads or faces.
Olaf 6 | 956
6 Apr 2010 #346
UK: Crucifix banned at hospital where Muslims allowed to wear headscarves

One thing I'd like to point out: There's a difference between manifesting your religion/creed with symbols (unless she was just wearing it on her chech of course) hanging on walls etc. and headscarfs that are connected with religion but rather with tradition - anyway it's a part of clothing, not a symbol (you cant wear a cross, can you). Of course we don't see Chrstians walking around wearing headscarfs and it is strange to wear it anywhere outside desert regions:)
convex 20 | 3,978
6 Apr 2010 #347
Of course we don't see Chrstians walking around wearing headscarfs and it is strange to wear it anywhere outside desert regions

Lots of Christians in the countryside wear headscarfs. Most of those older ladies also wore them when they were young....
Olaf 6 | 956
6 Apr 2010 #348
Hah! Oh, yes, true. Good point. Different head scarfs and more colorful maybe. Or maybe they are old Muslim countryside ladies? It should be forbidden as someone banned crucifixes somewhere else! ;)
lesser 4 | 1,311
6 Apr 2010 #349
Let make it clear, neither headscarf of crucifix should be banned. It is craziness!
jonni 16 | 2,485
6 Apr 2010 #350
I generally agree, but in hospitals (in the news this week) dangly jewellery is generally forbidden for sound reasons.
convex 20 | 3,978
6 Apr 2010 #351
On a side note, I'm sure Jesus is going to be real happy to see all those crosses when he gets back.
Olaf 6 | 956
7 Apr 2010 #352
Jesus is going to be real happy to see all those crosses

- I assume that a cross reminds him of some unpleasant incident 2000 years ago.
bimber94 7 | 254
7 Apr 2010 #353
Even young Poles today openly cross themselves in public. Somewhat behind the times to put it politely. How big a peasant do they want to be? In UK where the church is much less prominent, they'd be "weirdos" or "Jesus nuts".
richasis 1 | 419
7 Apr 2010 #354
I'd rather have a "behind-the-times Christian State" than the "contemporary Police State" the UK has become.

Maybe all those street cameras are there to expose the "weirdo Jesus Nuts"...
convex 20 | 3,978
7 Apr 2010 #355
Even young Poles today openly cross themselves in public. Somewhat behind the times to put it politely. How big a peasant do they want to be? In UK where the church is much less prominent, they'd be "weirdos" or "Jesus nuts".

That's ok with me, I just treat them just like everyone else that believes that there is an invisible man controlling everything. The rituals and the jewelry provide good warning.
Ironside 48 | 9,825
7 Apr 2010 #356
As in do not believe in anything you should be approached with caution because you are unpredictable and can turn rabbit no time - just watch it!

Somewhat behind the times to put it politely. How big a peasant do they want to be?

don't know, I guess a way less than you
convex 20 | 3,978
7 Apr 2010 #357
As in do not believe in anything you should be approached with caution because you are unpredictable and can turn rabbit no time - just watch it!

Heh, I worship the sun. Comes out every morning, keeps me warm, provides the planet with the energy that it needs to support life.

All hail the the fission ball in the sky!
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
7 Apr 2010 #358
As in do not believe in anything you should be approached with caution because you are unpredictable and can turn rabbit no time - just watch it!

Does this mean Bugs Bunny is an atheist?
Ironside 48 | 9,825
7 Apr 2010 #359
Ask him!
(I know Mr BMW misspelling )

Heh, I worship the sun

Ah! If only ! but how I can trust you, you only saying it to put me at ease!:D
convex 20 | 3,978
7 Apr 2010 #360
Ah! If only ! but how I can trust you, you only saying it to put me at ease!:D

You got me, I don't really believe in the sun either :)


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