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Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools


1jola 14 | 1,879
14 Nov 2009  #1
Poland has joined the Vatican in criticising the European Court of Human Rights' ruling against crucifixes displayed in public schools in Italy.

Poland's president, Lech Kaczynski, said that crucifixes will remain in Polish schools no matter what happens in other countries. He mentioned they are substantial part of Poland's tradition, which needs to be preserved by subsequent generations.

The European Court ruling does not require the Polish government to remove crosses from public places, but it requires other European states to review how religious symbols are used, in general.

thenews.pl/international/artykul119901_crucifixes-to-stay-in-polish-schools-.html
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
14 Nov 2009  #2
It muslim french students cannot wear a skarf over their heads.... I think its also justified that we remove Crucifixes from our schools IMMEDIATELY.

I support a SECULAR academic environment ... A SECULAR STATE.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Nov 2009  #3
I support a SECULAR academic environment ... A SECULAR STATE.

Agreed.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
14 Nov 2009  #4
It muslim french students cannot wear a skarf over their heads.... I think its also justified that we remove Crucifixes from our schools IMMEDIATELY.

Catholicism has been with us for 1000 years, it helped Poland survive the hard periods and has always been a pillar of Polish national continuity, in other words Christianity has earned a place of honor in Poland and a cross is a symbol of Poland as much as the flag.

Islam did not earn such rights sorry.

I support a SECULAR academic environment ... A SECULAR STATE.

I support a secular state based on Christian traditions, Europe has developed with Christianity and by Christianity, we cannot sever our links with Christianity so a bunch of immigrants feel better.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Nov 2009  #5
I support a secular state based on Christian traditions

Say what now?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
14 Nov 2009  #6
A state that does not impose Christian dogma as law but bases its laws and policies on Christian traditions.

For example a state that does not impose religion or church practices as mandatory but establishes its policies on Christian values such as equality, mercy, humanity etc.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
14 Nov 2009  #7
It muslim french students cannot wear a skarf over their heads....

What do French minority students have to do with Poland?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
14 Nov 2009  #8
They have nothing to do with Poland...Poland has a Catholic/Christian heritage, should be proud of it, and stick with it...France?...Run by atheists, with a Khazar at the top, and they complain there about Muslims.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Nov 2009  #9
It muslim french students cannot wear a skarf over their heads

And why the hell the government should decide what one may wear over his own head ? Anyway It has nothing to do with Poland. The Euro court of human rights (!) crap will be simply ignored, so much for wild joyful screems of lefties.
southern 75 | 7,097
14 Nov 2009  #10
I think its also justified that we remove Crucifixes from our schools IMMEDIATELY.

And place Krishna statues,eh?
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
14 Nov 2009  #11
You didnt read my post properly did you?

I am not against any religion. .... but the academic environment should be free from religious influence.
southern 75 | 7,097
14 Nov 2009  #12
. but the academic environment should be free

It should be free of those third wordlers.
McCoy 27 | 1,276
14 Nov 2009  #13
Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools

praise the Lord.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Nov 2009  #14
Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools

Has this something to do with all the recent vampire activity?

I say vampires have rights too!
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893
14 Nov 2009  #15
praise the Lord.

Amen.

For me to see a country like Italy being forced to removed a Catholic symbol from public places signifies and end to Christianity as it stands...its a sad say...the EU are a foul stinking bunch of scum!
pawian 161 | 9,899
14 Nov 2009  #16
Catholicism has been with us for 1000 years, it helped Poland survive the hard periods.

I agree.

Catholics are still the majority in the country. Democracy rulez!

At the same time nobody is forced to practice catholicism. In Krakow`s high schools about 10%-15% students have chosen to skip religion classes.
nomaderol 5 | 726
14 Nov 2009  #17
it is sad for such a country that put one steap ahead (by socialism experience though not perfect) now taking two step backward (by sticking to old things to unite around.) one would be expecting more from such a country instead of taking steps backwards.
lesser 4 | 1,311
14 Nov 2009  #18
I think its also justified that we remove Crucifixes from our schools IMMEDIATELY.

Crucifixes should be replacedby the flag of the EU or pictures of the new EU president (atheist of course). New religion must be! Reformed Atheist Church of the EU.

It muslim french students cannot wear a skarf over their heads....

This is how French socialists (whole political establishment) do, first they let civilizationally alien population and later they try to force them to assimilate. In the same time, native Christian population is forbidden to wear crucifixes. They simply taking away personal liberties, trying to solve old mistakes and in the same time they won t admit any past wrongdoings.

it is sad for such a country that put one steap ahead (by socialism experience though not perfect) now taking two step backward (by sticking to old things to unite around.) one would be expecting more from such a country instead of taking steps backwards.

Actually, socialism this is perversity of XX century. Move on!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
15 Nov 2009  #20
For me to see a country like Italy being forced to removed a Catholic symbol from public places signifies and end to Christianity as it stands...its a sad say...the EU are a foul stinking bunch of scum!

Just shows you don't pay attention to what the judgement actually says.

Italy is bound to removing the law in which it is compulsory by law to remove the cross. This doesn't stop schools displaying it if they wish - and which is why this judgement won't stop a thing in Poland because it isn't a law here - and is down to the free will of the schools.
anton888 - | 82
15 Nov 2009  #21
I don't see what s the issue here, there shouldn't be any christian, especially in a very welll educated and high IQ country like Poland against taking off any religious symbol in classroom. Christianity is not like other religious (as I read in the forum), they represent open minded people, democratic idea, western culture, so I think they do not have problem to let the kids to choose their religious when they are old enough. If a child is not allow to vote for their president, this suggest that they are not yet mature enough to know what is best for them. All the comments from open minded christian suggest that they are differnt than mulisms which the famaily control the thought of their kids, forcing them to take side (or tradition in this matter) when they don't know what is right for them.

So, should there be double standard or not?
Cardno85 31 | 976
15 Nov 2009  #22
I personally don't see a problem with crosses in schools as long as children are not being forced to believe that it's anything more than a decoration. If there is religion classes based around purely Christian teaching then fair enough too, but only if the children are allowed to opt out of such things.

I must say on this thread I can see both points of view. From the European perspective, yes, schools should be a place of education and not religion. But we cannot discount the traditions and values of a country which has been staunchly Catholic for so long.

The European Parliament's just a joke anyway, bunch of overpaid folk sitting about trying to find ways to make everyone's life that little bit less enjoyable.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
15 Nov 2009  #23
I don't see what s the issue here, there shouldn't be any christian, especially in a very welll educated and high IQ country like Poland against taking off any religious symbol in classroom.

An appeal to intellect? How obvious.

We have always had crosses in our schools, except when some foreign occupant forbid it. The new marxists coaxing for their removal are the same enemies as before, except they promise better socialism, happier than the last one. Not Utopia, but something very close. In the name of equality, of course.

Wonder if the situation will ever deteriorate to the point where someone brings a case to court to remove the national emblem since it is promoting nationalism.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Nov 2009  #24
A cross offends the child of a Finnish immigrant in school so it should be taken down even though 99% of Italians are Catholic?!
Well, Jehovah's Witnesses do not recognise national flags, symbols, oaths, etc. However, should a JW minority in school demand that the Polish, Canadian, American or whatever flag be removed from the classroom because they do not believe in its public display?

Or what about the vegetarian school kid? Does he or his parents have a right to demand burgers and bangers shouldn't be served in the school lunchroom because their very presence violates his rights?

What about homos who want Lesbian nuns and homo priests in the Catholic Church? What about the rights of the majority of Catholics who reject such innovations?

This boils down to majority and minority rights.
We lived in tabloidised times where the sensation-seeking media eagerly hype the noisy demands of tiny, vocal and influential minority elites, mainly of liberal, leftist or libertine persuasion, which are effectively terrorising the rest of society.
Cardno85 31 | 976
15 Nov 2009  #25
Where did you come from? That is the most sense I've read in a long time!
anton888 - | 82
15 Nov 2009  #26
crosses in schools as long as children are not being forced to believe that

That's very correct. In all public school religious study is a must in PL, maybe not by law but the kids and parents will have a very hard time if they choose different.
Gaa 2 | 155
15 Nov 2009  #27
when i went to secondary school we had to start every school day with a prayer with the teacher but NOBODY protested. 10 minute prayer meant 35 min lesson:P

i think religion as a school subject is absolutely useless. i didn't learn anything from it.it's a waste of time and money..

comparing Poland to France is really lame.i don't know how much it's true but around 90% of people in Poland claim to be christians so i don't think crosses are a problem for them
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
15 Nov 2009  #28
That's very correct. In all public school religious study is a must in PL, maybe not by law but the kids and parents will have a very hard time if they choose different.

That might be true in small rural backwaters, but it's hardly true in big cities. I doubt anyone will care or indeed blink if a child doesn't go to such classes - indeed, the only problem might be if the child wants to go to the first communion with their friends (and resentment when they see all their friends being bought hideously expensive things for it!).

Then again, I'm no fan of the one-sided concordat!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
15 Nov 2009  #29
90% of people in Poland claim to be christians so i don't think crosses are a problem for them

Fake Christians. Trust me.... COMPLETELY FAKE CHRISTIANS.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Nov 2009  #30
95% claim to be Catholic is more to the point, of which 70% are said to be practising.

£√≥dz, what is a fake Christian? How can you tell?


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