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Who controls Gazeta Wyborcza??


delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2012 #31
Look up euphemism. Case rests.

No, Polonius. You said, and I quote :

The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

That is only a partial list becuase many others are in denilal and hding behind good Polish-sounding names.

The bottom line is that no other Polish daily can match the overrepresentation of Moldovo-Bolivians,

Nice way of admitting you cannot give us even a single reliable source to back your claim, polonius.

Shall I ask him for the 5th time on this thread to provide a single reliable source?

Ah, why not.

Polonius - for the 5th time, I'm asking you - please provide a single credible source to back up your claims that the people behind Gazeta Wyborcza are -

The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

That is only a partial list becuase many others are in denilal and hding behind good Polish-sounding names.

A single credible source is all I'm asking for.
pawian 192 | 19,264
1 Sep 2012 #32
:):):):):)

In Polish there is a saying - wołanie na puszczy - a cry/call in the wilderness. :):):):)
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
1 Sep 2012 #33
Helena £uczywo, according to Wikipedia: Jest córką działaczy komunistycznych żydowskiego pochodzenia, Ferdynanda Chabera i Doroty (Debory) z domu Guter.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_%C5%81uczywo
Seweryn Blumsztajn (ur. 2 maja 1946 we Wrocławiu) - polski dziennikarz żydowskiego pochodzenia, działacz opozycji antykomunistycznej w okresie PRL.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seweryn_Blumsztajn

Let me see, what excuse will you come up with next. That wikipedia is not a credible source. Or maybe that you don't read Polish. Well, too bad. I still wonder what right a tiny ethnic minority has got to be the opinion-moulding medium of the Polish nation. If it turned out that Ukrainians controlled Rzeczpospolita or Opole Germans ran Wprost, there would be a huge stink, because that would indeed be a skewed and distorted situation.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2012 #34
In Polis there is a saying - wołanie na puszczy - a cry/call in the wilderness. :):):):)

Very nice saying, I think I'll use it ;)

Come on Polonius - you've made the claim, so back it up. Or withdraw your statement - your choice.
pawian 192 | 19,264
1 Sep 2012 #35
Helena £uczywo, Seweryn Blumsztajn

Is that all? :):):):)

How about your:

: The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

:):):):)

Polonius, come on. Such an intelligent guy is posting such crap.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
1 Sep 2012 #36
I knew it. So you do not regard wikipedia as reliable. Well, don't expect me to post info on all the other individuals listed. You forgot the one about not knowing Polish, but I ain't gonna translate it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2012 #37
Helena £uczywo, according to Wikipedia

Born in Poland, raised in Poland and spent her entire life in Poland.

Also, Wikipedia makes no mention of her non-Polish ancestry. Unless you wish to claim that a Germanic surname is somehow "proof".

Seweryn Blumsztajn

Oh, Polonius...you're such good fun.

Yet again - no mention there of him being non-Polish. Perhaps you'd like to try again?

I still wonder what right a tiny ethnic minority has got to be the opinion-moulding medium of the Polish nation. If it turned out that Ukrainians controlled Rzeczpospolita or Opole Germans ran Wprost, there would be a huge stink, because that would indeed be a skewed and distorted situation.

Polonius, for the 6th time in this thread, I'm going to ask you to prove these two statements.

The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

That is only a partial list becuase many others are in denilal and hding behind good Polish-sounding names.

Proof, please?

And yes, I can read Polish quite well. But I'm asking for a single credible source to back up your claims quoted above.

I specifically would like to see some proof of your claim that it's run by Moldovo-Bolivar types.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
1 Sep 2012 #38
delphiandomine
polski dziennikarz żydowskiego pochodzenia, says Wikipedia. Oops, I forgot, you don't read Polish. Back to school!
Harry
1 Sep 2012 #39
" polski dziennikarz"
So even your own source says the man is Polish.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2012 #40
polski dziennikarz żydowskiego pochodzenia, says Wikipedia. Oops, I forgot, you don't read Polish. Back to school!

I think you're the one who needs to go back to school, as I was taught that "polski dziennikarz" means "Polish journalist".

Oh dear Polonius - when your own sources don't even agree with you, it's time to give up!

(but no, for the 7th time, I ask you for one single credible source for the following statements)

The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

That is only a partial list becuase many others are in denilal and hding behind good Polish-sounding names.

one single credible source
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
1 Sep 2012 #41
I see no sense in wasting time on Michnik-Szechter and his clique. Michnik was very dangerous in 90's, when he had serious influence on Polish public opinion. But since quite a few years his far-left agenda has been clear. Recently, he's becoming truly insane, for example he sued Ziemkiewicz for saying that "Michnik, instead of holding debates with his opponents, is terrorizing them with filing charges in court" :)))
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
1 Sep 2012 #42
Polish by citizenship but of Moldovan ethnicity. All I was saying is that it's strange for a single newspaper, and an influential one at that, to be domianated by people with roots to a single ethnic minority, in fact one of the smallest on a countrywide basis. If there were some Belarusians, Lithuanians, Opole Germans, Tatars, Lemnkos, etc. thrown in OK, but the same, single, monotonous group? You apparently find this nomral, so be happy that is the case. Many Poles do not necessarily agree with you.

Michnik is such a propoent of media pluralism that his newspaper's weekly TV magazioe ignores the existence of TV Trwam, but lists a plethora or 2nd, 3rd and 4th-rate stations hardly anybody watches. Moldovan-style impartiality I reckon!
pawian 192 | 19,264
1 Sep 2012 #43
Many Poles do not necessarily agree with you.

Yes. 1/3 of voting population who support PiS.

Michnik is such a propoent of media pluralism that his newspaper's weekly TV magazioe ignores the existence of TV Trwam, but lists a plethora or 2nd, 3rd and 4th-rate stations hardly anybody watches. Moldovan-style impartiality I reckon!

It is useless on me as I don`t watch TV.

BTW, I also don`t read GW as I don`t have time. But in Internetless times, I used to buy it.
jon357 71 | 20,423
1 Sep 2012 #44
All I was saying is that it's strange for a single newspaper, and an influential one at that, to be domianated by people with roots to a single ethnic minority

Why? I don't see anything unusual here or feel that it is worth examining the ethnic make-up of company boards - especially when anyone regardless of nationality can buy stock in them.

A couple of questions. Firstly, do you consider the board of Agora to be Poles? Secondly, do you think there should be restrictions on media ownership on the grounds of ethnic ancestry?
pawian 192 | 19,264
1 Sep 2012 #45
he sued Ziemkiewicz for saying that "Michnik, instead of holding debates with his opponents, is terrorizing them with filing charges in court" :)))

Pity because it is an excellent chance for Ziemkiewicz to exist in the public life. Compared to Michnik, who spent 7 years in communist prisons for his opposition activity since mid 1960s, Ziemkieiwcz is nobody. In 1980s he tried to be a s-fi writer but very poor (that was the time I read everything from s-fi). Complete garbage.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
1 Sep 2012 #46
Compared to Michnik, who spent 7 years in communist prisons for his opposition activity since mid 1960s, Ziemkieiwcz is nobody.

That perfectly shows "logic" people sharing your political views are following :))
pawian 192 | 19,264
1 Sep 2012 #47
Talk to me more.....

Mów do mnie jeszcze. :):):):):)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2012 #48
Recently, he's becoming truly insane, for example he sued Ziemkiewicz for saying that "Michnik, instead of holding debates with his opponents, is terrorizing them with filing charges in court"

Now now. You might have a point, except that in Poland, it's almost normal to take someone to court for saying the slightest bad thing about you.

Polish by citizenship but of Moldovan ethnicity. All I was saying is that it's strange for a single newspaper, and an influential one at that, to be domianated by people with roots to a single ethnic minority, in fact one of the smallest on a countrywide basis.

For the 8th time Polonius, I'm asking you to provide a single credible source in this thread as to the following two statements :

The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

That is only a partial list becuase many others are in denilal and hding behind good Polish-sounding names.

Come on Polonius - you made the statements, now back them up.

Many Poles do not necessarily agree with you.

Most Poles couldn't care less about such subjects. Most Poles are also sane enough to see that when someone is asked 8 times to back up their statements and they can't - the person making the statements is most probably talking nonsense.

Come on Polonius - don't make me ask the question 9 times!
pawian 192 | 19,264
1 Sep 2012 #49
The case is simple - right wingers are furious about the popularity of GW which by far exceeds the popularity of right wing papers.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2012 #50
This thread actually answers InWroclaw's question perfectly, don't you think? :)
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
2 Sep 2012 #51
delphiandomine
If Wikipedia is not a credible source, then the only way would be to visit the GW newsroom and do an on-the-spot ethnic-ancestry survey, if it's that important to you. You probably have easier access to the cosmopolitan leftist-liberal Michnik gang than decent, patriotic Poles who are not welcome there.
OP goofy_the_dog
2 Sep 2012 #52
To Pawian, ...yhh no it doesn't, just in the last couple of months :

Fakt- lost 2.41%
Gazeta Wyborcza- lost 11.05%
Super Express- lost 6.21%

From:

ngopole.pl/2012/04/15/najmniejsza-w-historii-sprzedaz-gazety-wyborczej-spadek-o-11-procent
Harry
2 Sep 2012 #53
No thanks Polonius, how about you provide us with a source to support your claims?
InWroclaw 89 | 1,914
2 Sep 2012 #54
So, I chatted with a probable right-wing political type yesterday (can I stress that I am politically impartial, I really am).

I said to them: "Why do you dislike AM? He spent 7 years in jail opposing communism, did he not? Why the problem with him?"

The reply was: "He wrote books in prison, was given privileges. Why do you think that was?"

I responded: "He behaved well or all prisoners were given those privileges?"

They responded: "No, think about it."

I asked: "You don't think someone would suffer any period in jail for some sort of charade do you?"

They replied: "Yes."

My obvious reaction was one of disbelieving my own ears.

So, having looked into things since my last post, my own view is that Michnik seems fine to me. But, I also think Kuklinski was indeed closer to hero than anything negative, I definitely do not agree that he is a traitor. Neither did Clinton when he was the US president. Can anyone give me an impartial link that proves Kuklinski did it for lots of cash and not primarily for moral reasons? I do not agree that an oath sworn to the army has any validity when you have reason to believe you'd be promoting oppression of your own countrymen by not blowing the whistle. As a citizen, I would expect my servicemen to do what is best for my country and my freedoms, not keep to some oath just because it was sworn. That's like Nazis shooting prisoners because they promised they would. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it anything other than murder.

Some quarters maintain that Kuklinski may even have prevented a serious war at that point in history - looks to me like they have a good point.

The CIA have an interesting (positive) page about him, as you might expect of course
cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol44no3/html/v44i3a03p.htm

Here's a 2 minute video about him
youtube.com/watch?v=oGKFM0Q_8f8

Here's a long, Polish documentary on him
youtube.com/watch?v=gfF4usEfTI0&feature=relmfu

I read (as best I can!) GW and looks pretty OK to me. Seems a bit childish at times with some of its criticisms, but no newspaper is perfect and am yet to find any journalist or editor anywhere in the world who has managed to do their job without offending someone somewhere.

I look at both sides - I have read GP and FP, as well as GW. The truth is out there - somewhere. Seems in this life what's true for someone is not always viewed as the plain truth by someone else. I used to think the truth was simply the truth, but experience has taught me people just don't always see it like that no matter how obvious it may be to others, and I probably will never know why.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Sep 2012 #55
If Wikipedia is not a credible source, then the only way would be to visit the GW newsroom and do an on-the-spot ethnic-ancestry survey, if it's that important to you. You probably have easier access to the cosmopolitan leftist-liberal Michnik gang than decent, patriotic Poles who are not welcome there.

Polonius, for the 9th time in this thread, I'm asking you to provide a credible source for these two claims.

The question was: what is behind that unusual concentration of people of non-Polish ancestry in a single newsroom and Agora boardroom?

That is only a partial list becuase many others are in denilal and hding behind good Polish-sounding names.

So far, you've managed to show us two links which state that both people are Polish journalists. I mean, your own sources agree that they're Polish.

Come on. I'm only asking for this one single credible source to back up your claims.

You're the one that stated this, not me - so why are you finding it so difficult to find a source?

I read (as best I can!) GW and looks pretty OK to me. Seems a bit childish at times with some of its criticisms, but no newspaper is perfect and am yet to find any journalist or editor anywhere in the world who has managed to do their job without offending someone somewhere.

That's pretty much my opinion too. It's not perfect, but they on the whole, it's not a bad paper. And they don't have a total obsession with rival newspapers.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,914
2 Sep 2012 #56
I very rarely see the hard copy of it, my praise of it is conditional upon it not turning into some sort of celeb-idolising rag like much of the British press, with endless nonsense about what Cheryl Cole is up to, who is in the Big Brother house, David Beckham's latest bathroom suite, what's on X-Factor etc etc. If GW starts doing rubbish about Only The Music, Polska X-Factor and similar, I'm not even going to bother reading the online version any more (although in any case I believe they might start charging for access? PIANO paywall or some such?)

I don't mean to offend if you're a fan of any of those shows, but to me they're just so uninteresting, the last thing I'd want is to be faced with in GW is page after page of Celeb Goss.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
2 Sep 2012 #57
That's pretty much my opinion too. It's not perfect, but they on the whole, it's not a bad paper. And they don't have a total obsession with rival newspapers.

Their economic or sport sections are quite professional, editorial section is a totally different matter and some things written by Michnik or Żakowski really raise eyebrows of any non-Palikotist reader. And they definately do have obsession with their rivals.

For example, Żakowski once said that abolition of inheritance tax would be a straight way back to feudalism.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Sep 2012 #58
editorial section is a totally different matter and some things written by Michnik or Żakowski really raise eyebrows of any non-Palikotist reader. And they definately do have obsession with their rivals.

But isn't the point to raise eyebrows? It's an editoral - you're never going to get fluffy sensible pure-centrist political opinions there, are you?

I'd be worried if Gazeta Polska started publishing editorials which praised the current Government for - let's say the successful implementation of the "one-window" business registration or the phasing out of the NIP for private people. Wouldn't you?

For example, Żakowski once said that abolition of inheritance tax would be a straight way back to feudalism.

And no doubt everyone shared it on facebook and talked about it.

(by the way : what are inheritance tax rates in Poland?)
jon357 71 | 20,423
2 Sep 2012 #59
I'd be worried if Gazeta Polska started publishing editorials which praised the current Government for - let's say the successful implementation of the "one-window" business registration or the phasing out of the NIP for private people. Wouldn't you?

Yet they should. Gazeta Wyborcza is an essentially conservative newspaper and inheritance tax is a fairly normal part of life. These minority newspapers (who owns Gazeta Polska by the way?) love to rail against anything they can to feed their frightened and politically impotent readers but ultimately railing is all they can do.
OP goofy_the_dog
2 Sep 2012 #60
In my humble opinion :)
Gazeta Wyborcza (Agora S.A generally) is not a conservative newspaper, it is a leftist-liberal newspaper propagating values like Gay marriage, Abortion and hatred to Catholicism.

I think it is Sakiewicz that is the owner of the GP, but I am not sure...
What I would like to know is who reallly is Michnik vel Szechter :)

Cheers

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