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Polish children boosting standards among English pupils, study suggests


hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
23 May 2012 #1
Notwithstanding the somewhat, not entirely substantiated telegraph headline, i think it is good to see Poles integrating well into British society.
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9280815/Polish-children-boosting-standards-among-English-pupils-study-suggests.html

I think that you would probably have a similar finding re Chinese students. Any thoughts?
Hipis - | 227
23 May 2012 #2
i think it is good to see Poles integrating well into British society.

We always did. We integrated well into the RAF, the army, the navy and your jobs back in the 40s. Now we're integrating well into your jobs and benefits system in the 21st century. ;D
OP hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
23 May 2012 #3
your jobs and benefits system i

Well not exactly my jobs or benefits, because i don't live in the UK nor am I a UK citizen(:
4 eigner 2 | 831
23 May 2012 #4
We always did. We integrated well

Really? I'm not trying to argue with you guys but here in the US, your countrymen live more for themselves, have their own shops, pubs etc. Most of them don't even speak English well (and that after living here for many years).
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
23 May 2012 #5
i think it is good to see Poles integrating well into British society

Agreed
But,also,the headline is misleading as its pretty much an open secret that a lot of this is done on a target driven standards system that adds point for number of pupils studying a forgien language at GCSE level......is a GSCE in Polish for a clever Polish child really a huge achievment? yes,its good,but its not even upto the standard that Polish would be taught or expected in Poland.

So,school with influx of Polish students suddenly does better in Modern languages is not exactly a sign from heaven of Polish kids demi god like ability to somehow enfuse English kids with extra IQ points :)
pam
24 May 2012 #6
polish children in the uk would not be studying gcse polish.They would study either french or spanish as a modern foreign language. i work in a school which has many polish pupils, and polish is not on the curriculum.
Barney 15 | 1,476
24 May 2012 #7
polish children in the uk would not be studying gcse polish.

They dont study Polish GCSE but are entered into the exam as Isthatu2 rightly says to massage the rating system.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
24 May 2012 #8
polish children in the uk would not be studying gcse polish

Erm,but they are Pam.....English kids take English GCSEs.....Polish kids are taking GCSE Polish, the auditors look at results and numbers taking forgien languages,these are up,points go up.

As is obvious,in England English GCSE is not a forgien language,Polish is.
What,you dont believe people under presure to deliver pointless target goals dont play to strengths available? :)

Just want to make clear, the polish kids have done really well adjusting, what me and barney are saying takes nothing from that,its just a fact of life in modern target driven education.

And,sorry pam, there are hardly any schools that teach Spanish in the UK..... French and German were the standards in my day (early 90s) and one school in my area also taught russian,but,Spanish,nope.

These days mandarin is catching up,but by and large schools are adapting fast and squeezing in Polish to up the grades if there are enough Polish kids. Im sure there are parts of norfolk that suddenly teach Portugese GCSE too ;)
Hipis - | 227
24 May 2012 #9
Really? I'm not trying to argue with you guys but here in the US, your countrymen live more for themselves, have their own shops, pubs etc. Most of them don't even speak English well (and that after living here for many years).

Go to Miami and see how well the Cubans and Haitians have integrated. Spanish is the most widely spoken language there and parts of Miami all you hear is Creole. Birds of a feather stick together.
pam
24 May 2012 #10
[quote=isthatu2]And,sorry pam, there are hardly any schools that teach Spanish in the UK..... i cant speak for the rest of the uk, but where i live spanish is taught. french is the first foreign language taught, and spanish is offered if a pupil shows an aptitude for languages. my son has both french and spanish gcses. polish students in my town are not entered for gcse polish.Two of my polish friends daughters have just finished their gcses, and they were not given the chance to sit the exam.I am not doubting that in other areas of the uk,gcse polish is offered, but it isnt here.
4 eigner 2 | 831
24 May 2012 #11
Go to Miami and see how well the Cubans and Haitians have integrated. Spanish is the most widely spoken language there and parts of Miami all you hear is Creole. Birds of a feather stick together.

I know but in this particular case we're talking about your countrymen.
Hipis - | 227
24 May 2012 #12
So? What difference does it make? The USA is full of immigrants anyway. In case you'd forgotten, even English is a foreign language as it was imported by the conquering colonialists. How many Americans whose 1st language is English actually speak a foreign language or even try to learn?

I am sure the article mentioned that results for maths had shown a marked improvement and that the work ethic shown by the Polish pupils was having a positive influence on their British classmates.
boletus 30 | 1,366
24 May 2012 #13
your countrymen live more for themselves, have their own shops, pubs etc

The operative word is "some" and I bet that you have no "integration" statistics available. Neither do I, but I dislike meaningless generalizations, I really do. Let me explain why:

I started my integration process in Canada the first day I settled here. Many of my Polish friends, which I have met and accepted here (many did not pass the initial scrutiny though), have done the same. We were doing well, representing similar background and education. We did not need any ghetto support. We initially rented apartments, and later bought houses, in various parts of the city or the country. We shopped locally but we would occasionally visit Polish shops in Polish village, once a month maybe, around Christmas or Easter season for sure - this sort of things. But it was exactly five months ago when I was last shopping and drinking there.

We also did not need any support from Polish professional organizations. For example, Association of Polish Engineers of Ontario did not impress us much, since they were involved in some very funny political games: "old immigration" vs. "new immigration", etc. Polish dailies were also boring - and they still are, most of the time. So here we were: reading "Globe and Mail" while staying away from "Sun", working hard, getting excited about new jobs, business opportunities and challenging projects. And spending our free time the way we liked: long "old Polish conversations" and a good bottle of wine or two, and going outdoors.

I did not go initially to local bars, for the only reason that I considered them dumb and boring. I still carry a mental picture from some dark stinking tavern, somewhere downtown, of several single men sipping their "Labatt's Blue" in silence. Things have changed, I visit local bars - mostly full od strange dumb people and drug dealers but also ... surprise, surprise many intelligent ones too - for a good conversation and few glasses of wine, but I really missed our early Polish parties somewhere "up north": canoeing and sailing in summer, spending Christmas together in rented cottages, weekend cross-country skiing or downhill skiing forays to Mt.Tremblant, or Mt. Saint Anne. Five years down the road, the parties have become international, mostly Polish-Canadians... Many of us have made good friends with "locals" at work. So nothing wrong with this picture, wouldn't you say?

So, you can stick to your stereotypes, if you like, but these are not about me and many of my former friends - 50-100 maybe? And yes, I rarely drink vodka (another stereotype) - maybe once a year or so. And I like other ethnic cultures: Mexican (the only decent food and atmosphere I enjoyed in Dallas, Texas I found in a cozy Mexican restaurant), Italian, Irish. My local bakery is Italian, where I do my daily shopping for bread, cheeses, cold cuts, various Italian cheese filled peppers, eggs, frozen pizza dough, various canned delicacies, delicious cakes. I do it by choice and convenience, overpaying a bit, but I occasionally buy German or Polish dark bread.

- Giovanni, when are you going to learn how to bake the real Pumpernickel - not that brown soft bread you sell in here? And he only smiles - he knows I am joking.
pip 10 | 1,660
24 May 2012 #14
I started my integration process in Canada the first day I settled here. Many of my Polish friends, which I have met and accepted here (many did not pass the initial scrutiny though), have done the same. We were doing well, representing similar background and education. We did not need any ghetto support.

sounds like my husbands family too. They have their Polish friends but also Canadian. At Easter and Christmas they go to Polish church but not everything around them is now Polish. They had the support in the beginning but after living in Canada for 20+ years they have managed to find their own way.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
24 May 2012 #15
The US doesn't have a a 'melting pot' as different nationalities and cultures live in ghettos.

In the UK immigrants are expected, and usually do, to integrate. There is no such thing as Polish ghettos in the UK and you would never identify an Anglo-Pole unless he told you his surname.
gdyniaguy 1 | 281
25 May 2012 #16
In the UK immigrants are expected, and usually do, to integrate. There is no such thing as Polish ghettos in the UK and you would never identify an Anglo-Pole unless he told you his surname.

What are you going on about!

Really!! the blacks, pakistani's, indian's,jew's, chinese, brazilians. turks etc all have ghetto's in the UK. The UK goverment assist them by translating every piece of goverment paperwork into a multitude of languages. Poles are different as in the majority they arn't in the UK to live longterm, they are there just to make money so don't need to integrate.

Bet you Vote Liebour and think that multiculturism is wonderful!!


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