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Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology


trener zolwia 1 | 939
30 Sep 2010 #121
Maybe pre-marriage couples counselling should be mandatory?
Bzibzioh
30 Sep 2010 #122
It is, when you are getting married in the Catholic Church.
Olaf 6 | 956
30 Sep 2010 #123
If such fly-by-night arrangements are so good and modern, then why are such households more of a a hotbed of domestic violence, alcoholism, drugs, infidelity and confused, unhappy children than those of married couples?

- You are getting totally wrong impression. Did you look at any statistiscs of domestic violence (not to mention countless unhappy marriages)? No? I guess that's because noone makes them and the information in the media are not representative.
away guy 10 | 343
30 Sep 2010 #124
I believe the only way is the old way where there is a husband and a wife to care and nurture a child. When such new practices are brought in the future holds troubles i tell you !

The child would not feel the fundamental structure of a family and will be "too free" , spoilt and have no worries .. This will be planted in his memory and will make him greedy. Greed makes people either kill or do bad things when they are older just to get money and power.

Such new practices are one of the many " new age" structures that is making this wonderful world coming to an end.
zetigrek
30 Sep 2010 #125
The child would not feel the fundamental structure of a family and will be "too free" , spoilt and have no worries .. This will be planted in his memory and will make him greedy. Greed makes people either kill or do bad things when they are older just to get money and power.

What a bs. I live in full family and I always was wondering why my parents wouldn't get divorce. What values I have brought from my family?

1. after marriage life is finished
2. after marriage life is sad
3. marriage is a state full of grudges and remorses
4. when you are married and you have children then you are stuck for good
5. when you have children then you are obliged to sacrifice in the sake children unless you want to be called bad mother/father. In the effect the child:

a) rises in the conviction of being the bee's knees
b) has remorses that ruin their parents lifes, feels the pressure to fill parents' ambitions and if he/she won't be succeed then has even worse remorse of letting down parents

So dear parents think of yourself! Think of that you are an example for your kids! Think of that you have a mission! A mission of showing your children that life can be nice and doesn't stop after marriage! So please do something for yourself and if you are not happy with your partner be brave, have a little guts and take your life in your hands!

My parents are married for more than 30 years...
Ironside 50 | 11,056
30 Sep 2010 #126
I live in full family and I always was wondering why my parents wouldn't get divorce.

Gee, they wouldn't have it any other way. Do you really buy this complaining part ?
Think that - nobody could possibly have forced your parents to be together for a such long time!
zetigrek
30 Sep 2010 #127
Do you really buy this complaining part ?
Think that - nobody could possibly have forced your parents to be together for a such long time!

Money and children can. Also a habit and fear of changes.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
30 Sep 2010 #128
It is, when you are getting married in the Catholic Church.

What??

Once upon a time, yes, but please don't tell me this is still the case - is it?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Sep 2010 #129
Nauki przedmałżeńskie are mandatory for all couples wishing to get married in the Catholic Church.
BTW, on a separate but related tangent, what do you think of those tacky, gaudy, little phone-booth-sized wedding chapels with pink plastic cupids and red plastic ahearts all over the place in Las Vegas and Reno with recorded marriage vows in 439 languages, etc. Somehow those marriages which make a mockery of the holy estate of matrimony are honorued throughout the States and abroad as well.
zetigrek
30 Sep 2010 #130
Once upon a time, yes, but please don't tell me this is still the case - is it?

If you want to have catholic wedding then you have to attend something which in polish is called nauki przadmałżeńskie (premarriage lessons)
Ironside 50 | 11,056
30 Sep 2010 #131
has remorses that ruin their parents lifes, feels the pressure to fill parents' ambitions and if he/she won't be succeed then has even worse remorse of letting down parents

better that, than feeling of being responsible for parents divorce as many children of a divorced couples do!On the top of feeling unwanted and worthless ?

Routine and hard times can ruin or spoil a family life but - always look on a bright side !
...
30 Sep 2010 #132
trener zolwia:
Maybe pre-marriage couples counselling should be mandatory?

It is, when you are getting married in the Catholic Church.

Nauki przedmałżeńskie are mandatory for all couples wishing to get married in the Catholic Church.

Not in all catholic churches, especially in the US
Teffle 22 | 1,321
30 Sep 2010 #133
Nor in Ireland as far as I know.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
30 Sep 2010 #134
marriages in the US are at a 100 year low.

The general public should be aware that there is yet another reason for this. Men have awakened to the fact that marriage is a bad deal for them. They have seen their fathers, brothers, and male friends get shafted because of the unjust court systems which discriminate against men:

joannejacobs.com/2008/02/marriage-strike/

The first commentator (Patrick) spells out this double standard. Engineer-Poet's voice is also interesting as are many of the others.

Women have legislation, affirmative action, special programs, police, and lopsided domestic law behind them that puts men in a socially and legally inferior position, simply put, it's a modern day Jim Crow culture for the benefit of women. No need to beat around the bush on this one and it is mens' fault for letting it happen since women will push as far as weak men allow them to.
f stop 25 | 2,513
30 Sep 2010 #135
My particular 'pathology' goes even further than that. I don't think that governments should sanction marriage at all! It concerns the personal relationship choices and should not be a law. If one wants a financial contract, by all means, one should get one. That should not entitle you to any special priviledges, tax breaks, special treatment at Thanksgiving dinner... I think it's one more way in which religion imposes laws. Religious groups are on a campaign to revive the "traditional" marriage (it's worth remembering that includes no sex before marriage!).

They show studies that married couples stay together longer than unmarried couples. But aren't people that marry most likely more religious, conservative and more opposed to divorce to start with?

They show that married people are healthier than unmarried couples. That might be true, but if studies show that childless couples are healthier than the ones with children, would the governement start programs to dicourage having kids?

Married people might even be happier. They do receive more support from society and family, while unmarried once get pressured.
Two of my best friends just got married after living together for over 10 years. They did it so she can get on his health insurance. They will grow old together either way, I'm sure, but they do resent the distinction and a pressure to conform on this.
convex 20 | 3,978
30 Sep 2010 #136
it's worth remembering that includes no sex before marriage!).

Actually, it goes one step further. If the bride is not a virgin, you've got to stone her at her fathers house.

And I agree with you 100%. Marriage is a contract subject to changes in the law. Kind of a contract bundle.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Sep 2010 #137
Maybe the lack of prenuptial counselling explains why there are so many divorces in America.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
30 Sep 2010 #138
prenuptial counselling

and what is that? just like in Poland, some old lady explains the differences between a penis and a vagina, talks about natural birth control ...? what kind of help is that?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Sep 2010 #139
Maybe things are the way they are because too many people have their brains between their legs. Prenuptial counselling involves the purpose of mariage, creating a loving family unit, the art of compromise and benefit of marital harmony. Nowadays too many want to win every argument, always get their way and have the last word without considering the bigger picture: Where is this taking us? Is a one-off pyrrhic victory really worth it? Is brow-beating and humiliating my spouse going to make my life better? How will it affect the kids? Marriages goes beyond penises and vaginas, if you haven't noticed.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
30 Sep 2010 #140
Prenuptial counselling involves the purpose of mariage, creating a loving family unit, the art of compromise and benefit of marital harmony.

prenuptial counseling should be banned for good or seriously improved... it sucks right now...
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385
30 Sep 2010 #141
Prenuptial counselling involves the purpose of mariage, creating a loving family unit, the art of compromise and benefit of marital harmony.

don't we get this from our family and friends, from life, from being aware, from living with our partner before marriage.
and don't most of us ignore it anyway.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Sep 2010 #142
Indeed, and we see the fruits all about us...
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385
30 Sep 2010 #143
i know that u have a strict view of marriage. however, i don't see the downsides as u do.
i believe that most couples follow a modern, changing pattern. a style of life that differs and nothing more.
children from these unions don't all turn out to be drug taking delinquents as seems to be your general opinion.
those marriages that show problems may benefit from counselling from caring professionals, but only in the early stages of a rift.
anyone who has to enquire about marriage beforehand by sitting with a counsellor... shouldn't be getting married at all.
trener zolwia 1 | 939
30 Sep 2010 #144
I believe the only way is the old way where there is a husband and a wife to care and nurture a child.

Agree.

new practices are one of the many " new age" structures that is making this wonderful world coming to an end.

Hope civilization survives all that "progress" from the progressives...

what do you think of those tacky, gaudy, little phone-booth-sized wedding chapels with pink plastic cupids and red plastic ahearts all over the place in Las Vegas and Reno with recorded marriage vows in 439 languages, etc. Somehow those marriages which make a mockery of the holy estate of matrimony

Yeah, they're crap, but at least peeps are getting married in Sin City.

My particular 'pathology' goes even further than that. I don't think that governments should sanction marriage at all! It concerns the personal relationship choices and should not be a law. If one wants a financial contract, by all means, one should get one. That should not entitle you to any special priviledges, tax breaks, special treatment at Thanksgiving dinner...

Oh brother. It is in society's and a nation's best interest to encourage marriage. It adds stability and civility.

They show studies that married couples stay together longer than unmarried couples.

Yes. Science says so.

But aren't people that marry most likely more religious, conservative and more opposed to divorce to start with?
They show that married people are healthier than unmarried couples.

We call these the "good people". In contrast to the scumbags, criminals and dirtballs, the dregs of society whom we have already learned comprise most of the shack-up crowd.

Maybe the lack of prenuptial counselling explains why there are so many divorces in America.

I think if not mandated it should be promoted and encouraged more.

Men have awakened to the fact that marriage is a bad deal for them. They have seen their fathers, brothers, and male friends get shafted because of the unjust court systems which discriminate against men

Yep. there's all that working against marriage too. Again. gotta love all this "progress"... :s
pgtx 30 | 3,156
30 Sep 2010 #145
away guy:
I believe the only way is the old way where there is a husband and a wife to care and nurture a child.

Agree.
away guy:
new practices are one of the many " new age" structures that is making this wonderful world coming to an end.

Hope civilization survives all that "progress" from the progressives...

that's the conservative, old school point of view... nothing wrong with that... but think that for some, this change is a promise of a new, fresh beginning where they can be themselves...
convex 20 | 3,978
30 Sep 2010 #146
We call these the "good people". In contrast to the scumbags, criminals and dirtballs, the dregs of society whom we have already learned comprise most of the shack-up crowd.

Who's we? The crowd that wants more government intervention in peoples personal lives?
trener zolwia 1 | 939
30 Sep 2010 #147
this change is a promise of a new, fresh beginning where they can be themselves...

...the documented costs to society be damned. Yep, fits the Lib credo...

Who's we? The crowd that wants more government intervention in peoples personal lives?

Huh? It's a simple fact that science shows the shacker-uppers are for the most part the scummy losers.
Bzibzioh
30 Sep 2010 #148
that's the conservative, old school point of view... nothing wrong with that...

Old models are sometimes better than a new shiny ones. At least they proved themselves.

where they can be themselves...

What we are coming to understand more and more in our society is that free will can indeed be exercised all the way into despair. What if this "being themselves" is a gambler, or an alcoholic, or a drug addict? Freedom is a double-edged sword. It has consequences. Everyone wants to swim unmolested in the ocean. That giddy feeling lasts until the drowning begins and then all the happy splashers are fighting for the proffered life raft. The question remains: who pays for it?
f stop 25 | 2,513
30 Sep 2010 #149
Prenuptial counselling involves the purpose of mariage, creating a loving family unit, the art of compromise and benefit of marital harmony.

I have not checked the churches' position on this in a while, but what do these prenuptial councelors say about birth control?
trener zolwia 1 | 939
30 Sep 2010 #150
What we are coming to understand more and more in our society is that free will can indeed be exercised all the way into despair. The question remains: who pays for it?

Excellent. I nominate this for Post of the Day.


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