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Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology


markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #271
No it's not! I'm a RC. I'm divorced, remarried and I cannot receive the Eucharist. I would need to get an annulment. Do you have any idea what that costs?!

Yes the average cost is about $500.00. A portion is expected up front and you can make payments every month. It takes on average about 16 months so that is around $30.00 a month give or take.

I'm finding annulment worse than divorce. Divorce is admission of a mistake. Annulment is a denial.
You meet a person, you love them you get married and then suddenly decide that marriage is no longer valid for whatever reason.
This is the most selfish thing on earth.
Worse then saying I don't want to be with you any more, because I don't love you.

An ecclesiastic annulment is a declaration by the Church that a marriage which was thought to be valid, was not legally binding. This might be because of some defect in the consent given on the day of the wedding, or possibly a defect in the psychological capacity of one of the parties.

When an annulment is granted the Church is not putting aside a valid union, nor is it saying that there never was a marriage. The union certainly was a sociological fact, and the memory of it may be cherished, but the legal contract on which it was based was found to be invalid.

Canon Law declares that all the children born of an annulled marriage are legitimate. The unfortunate designation "illegitimate " is hardly used any more, but it is technically reserved for those born out of wedlock, which is certainly not the case in an annulled marriage.
RoughFlavors 1 | 100
20 Jan 2012 #272
Yes the average cost is about $500.00.

LOL, so if you're divorced and swallow the wafer you face eternal damnation, but with only one easy payment of $500 you can buy your way back into heaven? wow, it's a bargain...

No one is telling anyone to do anything.

but people are... by expressing holy outrage at the life choices of others, you attempt to influence them and everyone around to follow your philosophy
Ironside 50 | 11,056
20 Jan 2012 #273
. by expressing holy outrage at the life choices of others, you attempt to influence them and everyone around to follow your philosophy

So do you by expressing your opinion about Poland and freedom of speech !
RoughFlavors 1 | 100
20 Jan 2012 #274
don't you think there is a difference between someone imposing their views on me, and therefore limiting my choices on whether or not to marry, and some pointing out the inadequacies of a piece of legislation?

bottom line, would you rather live in a society that tells you whether or not to stay single, or who to have sex with and when, and punishes you for talking crap about some pile of old stories? or in a society where you're free to choose, and free to say almost anything you want?
markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #275
markskibniewski: Funny most men feel the exact same way.
Good! The point was that in a relationship without marriage, people tend to remain more autonomous.

First I found the statement so ridiculous, I made a joke about it. I thought it was obvious. The reason I find this statement to be so offensive is modern women generally thrive on and demand autonomy. If you are going into the marriage with the intention of "being taken care of" you are dooming that marriage to failure. If women are looking to get "taken care of" in a modern marriage ... I say good luck. It is very difficult at least where I live to maintain a happy household on one salary. The times of the man going out and bringing home the bacon are way gone.

The only way a relationship is "more autonomous" than marriage is in the bedroom.
RoughFlavors 1 | 100
20 Jan 2012 #276
modern women generally thrive on and demand autonomy.

i would tend to agree with that
markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #277
but people are... by expressing holy outrage at the life choices of others, you attempt to influence them and everyone around to follow your philosophy

Actually no, I am merely discussing and defending my position.

don't you think there is a difference between someone imposing their views on me, and therefore limiting my choices on whether or not to marry, and some pointing out the inadequacies of a piece of legislation?

Neither I, anyone posting here, or society is forcing you to do anything. You are free to do anything you want, say anything you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the personel rights or damage others.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jan 2012 #278
... by expressing holy outrage at the life choices of others, you attempt to influence them and everyone around to follow your philosophy

A grass-roots discussion such as this is nothing but 'ordinary people sharing ideas and expressing their opinion which may or may not influence someone. What about the professional brain-washers -- the advertising and entertaiment industries, media. lobbyists, and propagandists, inluding the 'poltiically correct' establishment, who are shoving their view of the world and of what is right and wrong down other people's throats. And in many cases they do it through subtle social engineering, and subliminal psychological ploys cleverly used to glamourise cheap, tacky popcultrure, degeneracy and unscrupulous, publciity-seeking celebs. The number of PF-ers who seem to buy into what they're peddling only shows how succssful they have been.
RoughFlavors 1 | 100
20 Jan 2012 #279
but you're wrong. other people's opinions do infringe on me. or used to, back in Poland. here nobody gives a rat's a$s.

i used to live in a small town, where everyone knew each other. living in an apartment building, we pretty much knew when our neighbors had an argument, who got drunk the night before, who bought a new sofa, who had "ogorkowa" for dinner... it was inescapable. living together without marriage would be a social suicide in an environment like that, because the constant gossip would make your life unbearable. i have a friend who still lives in Poland, in her mid 30s, and the whole building has a gossip summit every time she invites some guy to her own apartment! An independent woman in her 30s! not to mention that she is considered "stara panna," so that's just another good reason for all the neighbors to pick on her... she is brave enough not to pay attention to those old hags, but a lot of people are not, between the neighbors and the family pressuring them to get married, they just give in. all because people have some misplaced urge to voice their opinions about stuff that should be nobody's business. and now that you are married, god forbid you don't produce offspring within the first two years... another flurry of speculations about what is wrong with you...

yes, you may call it

ordinary people sharing ideas and expressing their opinion which may or may not influence someone

listen, i'm not advocating against marriage. i'm very happily married and it's important to me that we are married rather than just living together. what i don't want is others telling me what to do.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #280
you mean in about a third of it and you are muslim.

Athird of the world is quite a lot of people - and worth mentioning that some practising Christians also have polygamy. And BTW, I'm not a Muslim.
markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #281
When I said a third I was being generous....I was referrring to land mass not population. I would like to know of any christians that are praticing polygamy..doesn't make sense . I wasn't calling you a muslim, I was pointing out that muslims are the only group that polygamy is an accepted pratice.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #282
I was pointing out that muslims are the only group that polygamy is an accepted pratice.

Actually quite a few groups, not just Muslims by any means practise it. Some other cultures practise polygyny instead. You might not know that there are Roman Catholics and Anglicans in Africa who practise it - with the blessing of their dioceses.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jan 2012 #283
RoughFlavors
The point is the media, advertisers and Hollywood ARE THE ONES TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO but in such subtle, hidden, sneaky way that you don't even know it. None of the views expressed by you are truly your own unique opinions different from those of otehrs. In fact, they are similar to a great many PF-ers who were also influenced by the above-mentioned forces.

SUBTEL, SENAKY
markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #284
but you're wrong. other people's opinions do infringe on me. or used to, back in Poland. here nobody gives a rat's a$s.

Only if you let them. Personelly I think you did the right thing. You chose to get away from a bad situation. You didn't cave and get married to the wrong person as many people do and blame marriage for it or social pressure. You were free to choose and chose wisely.

Actually quite a few groups, not just Muslims by any means practise it. Some other cultures practise polygyny instead. You might not know that there are Roman Catholics and Anglicans in Africa who practise it - with the blessing of their dioceses.

The entire continent of Africa allows the practise which is why I posted a third (land mass wise). Do you have any proof of what you say, I find it hard to believe any practising christian would condone polygamy. What other modern cultures practice polygamy?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #285
The entire continent of Africa allows the practise which is why I posted a third (land mass wise). Do you have any proof of what you say, I find it hard to believe any practising christian would condone polygamy. What other modern cultures practice polygamy?

Quite a lot more of the world, in the Arab peninsula, in the pacific Islands practise it. If you want links to Christian polygamy, there's plenty of sources about the debate on the internet. The Anglican Communion is trying to stop it among their members but the local bishops refuse. The RCC doesn't condone it but largely turns a blind eye.
modafinil - | 418
20 Jan 2012 #286
In those countries where having a daughter is seen as a burden and no social security outside the family it's probably saved a few from destitution and infantcide. The blind eye is out of compassion, I think.
markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #287
The Anglican Communion is trying to stop it among their members but the local bishops refuse.

Before making false statements you may wish to do a simple google search before making them. If you type in is christian polygamy practised today...you can read for yourself.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #288
Before making false statements

Absolutely true.

Instead of relying on wikipedia and similar, check out the ongoing debate within Xtian churches in Africa.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Jan 2012 #289
The point is the media, advertisers and Hollywood ARE THE ONES TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO

Just like the RCC, then?
markskibniewski 3 | 200
20 Jan 2012 #290
Instead of relying on wikipedia and similar, check out the ongoing debate within Xtian churches in Africa.

Quite a lot more of the world, in the Arab peninsula, in the pacific Islands practise it . These are your words.

I already included Muslims. So your adding an area about the size of Rhode Island. Not an overwhelming amount of the world. I still havn't seen any links regarding christian or Rc churches practicing Polygamy. What ongoing debate are you referring to the debate that they actually exist or the fact that they are in Africa an area I have already posted as accepting polygamy.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Jan 2012 #291
Yes, except the forces of hedo-commercialist degeneracy are far more effective -- just look at how many on PF have swallowed it all hook, line and sinker!
teflcat 5 | 1,032
21 Jan 2012 #292
hedo-commercialist degeneracy

What does this mean? Polonius, do you know what the word sanctimonious means? You are forever casting the first stone. Where's your Christian charity, forgiveness and understanding. Oh, sorry, I forgot. You're RC.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Jan 2012 #293
The manipualtion and exploitation of the public by unscrupulous commercial forces peddling their lucrative degenrate, hedo-anarchistic lifestyles is an evil which I am trying to understand. It is often difficult to comprehend why so many suckers let themselves be bamboozled by it all. I reckon it attests to the clever, crafty, subtle and often subliminal skills of highly paid propagandists (called advertisers, PR specialists, lobbyists, etc.).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Jan 2012 #294
Is it just me that wonders why Polonius is abusing the RCC in this way?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
21 Jan 2012 #295
clever, crafty, subtle and often subliminal skills of highly paid propagandists (called advertisers, PR specialists, lobbyists, etc).

Such skills aren't either subtle or clever.

The manipualtion and exploitation of the public

You seem to have a negative view of the public - there are always people who will be taken in, hook line and sinker, by advertisers, religions etc but equally human nature has a very good bullsh1t detector.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Jan 2012 #296
but equally human nature has a very good bullsh1t detector.

Certainly explains why Ruch Palikota took 3rd place in the election.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 441
23 Jan 2012 #297
Just like the RCC, then?

haha! pwnage! :)

Certainly explains why Ruch Palikota took 3rd place in the election.

Doesn't stop those "Taste Of Polonia" types from supporting PiS though! lol :D

listen, i'm not advocating against marriage. i'm very happily married and it's important to me that we are married rather than just living together. what i don't want is others telling me what to do.

Spot on.

Despite the fact that I'm one of those "immoral heathens" which Mr Polish Surnames despises so much, I'm even able to forgive my wife for cheating - which is actually quite a Xtian attitude in many ways! More proof that living by a set of man-made dogma doesn't necessarily make you a better person, and that it's possible to have morals even if you don't pray to a wooden cross, etc. That's one thing I do actually respect about Islam - at least they don't agree with praying to man-made images of gods! But if that's what you want to do, feel free, it's your choice. Just don't judge the rest of us who don't share your beliefs!
Meathead 5 | 470
24 Jan 2012 #298
Yes, except the forces of hedo-commercialist degeneracy are far more effective -- just look at how many on PF have swallowed it all hook, line and sinker!

Christianity has two rules and two rules only, Love God and Love your neighbor as you would love yourself. That's it, that's all there is. You should spend more time reading Scripture and less time attending the Roman Catholic Church.

More proof that living by a set of man-made dogma doesn't necessarily make you a better person, and that it's possible to have morals even if you don't pray to a wooden cross, etc. That's one thing I do actually respect about Islam - at least they don't agree with praying to man-made images of gods!

No, they pray to a meteorite.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
24 Jan 2012 #299
The US is the best proof of that you can't get rid of divorces by means of promoting marriages. The country has the highest rate of both marriages and divorces. The more people get married the more people find their wedlock not a happy one. Hence good and happy relationship are not equal to marriage.
markskibniewski 3 | 200
24 Jan 2012 #300
On the contrary, the marriage rate in the Usa. has been going down almost every year. This is because people are waiting longer to get married mostly due to financial reasons. Your comparison does not make sense since it does not take into account the amount of broken relationships each person had prior to getting married and the multiple relationships of the people who didn't get married.


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