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When will Poland put children first?


Ant63 13 | 410
2 Apr 2012 #1
As some will be aware my Polish partners children were abducted and hidden from the police for several days along with other malicious acts being carried against both children and partner.

What has happened since defies all logic and most of all compassion toward the children.

The first problem I can half accept but not fully as it is a breach of international law and defies common sense.
Brussels II clearly states that any procedures involving children should be held in the country of their habitual residence. The judge argued that she was perfectly capable of doing this. This would be 100% acceptable if she was party to all facts about the children's welfare, education etc in the country they live. The sad fact is, it appears there is little or no interest in these facts, but a lot of interest in their previous life in Poland two years ago. They can't even speak Polish properly any more. Not from a lack of effort on behalf of the mother who speaks to them in Polish, while they reply in English, but because it is their choice.

Next up. What the hell are people thinking about with what I can only describe as a "Competition" with going to the court psychologist to determine who gets the children. Does the court honestly believe it can get an accurate picture of two adults and their children in 5 hours without finding out information from outside sources? Two plastic people with ulterior motives. On most occassions, manipulated children. Two psychologists with a hidden agenda, in the pay of the court, therefore, unable to make an objective report as their income is directly related to making the judge happy. It would be funny if it wasn't child abuse.

And finally for now. If a man can abduct children and abuse them, does this mans character change when he becomes a Policeman? It does in the eyes of a Polish judge. The judge says she can trust him if he is a Policeman. The same Policeman that takes mobile phones in exchange for traffic tickets. Hmm! Is it thinking about the children's welfare when a court orders that the same man that abducted them, can have them for 10 hours without supervision or is it a subtle form of child abuse? Does the court think these children would be happy to be put in the same situation from which they were abducted? They are seriously distressed.

When will Poland put children first?
polishmama 3 | 279
2 Apr 2012 #2
does this mans character change when he becomes a Policeman? It does in the eyes of a Polish judge.

I'm not sure about what you are specifically talking about in your post. But regarding this statement, I can say that I know American policemen who are looked at better by judges than the mother in child custody cases, simply because they are police. Even though I know some police officers who would steal part of their drug busts to take home to their wives, some other cops who beat their kids, one cop I know is leaving his wife because she "wasn't fun" (no, really, she was a home body and he wanted a party animal, in his own words) and has told family that he knows people who can have her killed. When asked why, he answered that he wanted full custody of the kids to get back at her. Because she wasn't fun. Even though she is very willing to share custody and is a good mother. In his words. He also believes that our country is on the verge of a "race war" between whites and "darkies", again, his words. Some people are sick, and a uniform doesn't change that. That has nothing to do with a particular country.
OP Ant63 13 | 410
2 Apr 2012 #3
I'm not sure about what you are specifically talking about in your post

I am talking about Poland specifically and what appears to be Poland's drive to keep families together at all cost to a childs welfare and Poland's ridiculous legal system that fails children repeatedly by failing to have any system (that is usable or painful enough) to uphold court orders. The police don't get involved and a 30zl fine from the court is hardly going to deter someone from ignoring an order. It's laughable really. Another example of failure that we have direct experience of is that it's possible to present 5 totally different statements to court in Poland about the same thing, and still be given the opportunity to be heard over a period of months. I would think in most western countries, two would give you the benefit of the doubt (just), three, there would be no further questions as your making it up as you go along.

The kurator system is a joke. From our experience you are dealing with biased, uneducated people who go out with a preconception, and write a report confirming such when it's quite obvious somethings not right. It stinks of, "it looks like too much work" which appears to be endemic in Polish public sector.

Periodically I get a little distressed by what is happening to my partners children. I cannot believe Poland can be so uncaring about children and put parents first under the pretense of doing things correctly. Taking six months to decide that a 5 yr old child should be returned to its mother is appalling by any stretch of the imagination particularly when its a clean situation legally. It's 10% of the childs life. Polish people do seem to live in denial or really don't have a clue about the reality of the Polish legal system. I would not like to think differently to this but sometimes its hard when you get comments like "thats acceptable in Poland". It shouldn't be.

I am biased but only slightly. They are not my children.
polishmama 3 | 279
2 Apr 2012 #4
Why don't you give specifics about what you are going through? That might help some people who might be able to give you some sort of advice on what to do.
OP Ant63 13 | 410
2 Apr 2012 #5
I don't need advice. I am in a position where I can give advice.

Currently I can't because it is a legal situation. In actual fact it's not me going through anything it's two children and a Polish mother. I don't need advice as I understand English, Polish and European child law and it appears many an advocate in Poland doesn't even understand Polish law or they have their own interpretation of it which differs significantly from the Polish Supreme Courts. Most law has basis in the Family and Guardianship code from communist times. It simply doesn't fit the bill for a country in the European Union. I think it was 1994 the child laws were opened for change in Poland but no one stood up and changed anything. It was probably just a half hearted nod to the Union that Poland was going to change.

I am assuming you are a Polish woman in America. If that is the case you are probably unlikely to have experienced "stupid decisions" by a Polish court. If I'm wrong I apologise. When I can publish, and I WILL, I will do so in full and there are a few people on here that may want to distance themselves from the truth about how Poland treats its children. Alas I think we have a couple of years more suffering for the children.

When its all going wrong, the courts are quite happy to risk a child well being, unless they can see blood. Sad but true.


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