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Mosque and Catholic Church Wedding in Poland. Is That Possible?


Ahusain 3 | 12
10 Mar 2013 #1
Hi,

I was brought up Muslim & want to get married to a lovely Polish woman. Parents want an Islamic wedding. Now, we're wondering if a Mosque wedding will be an obstacle to a Catholic Church wedding, i.e. If we're registered as married already, will the Church have a problem/do they have any communication with the Mosques in Poland?

Any insight or help would be well appreciated.

Thx in advance...
Monitor 14 | 1,820
10 Mar 2013 #2
You would have to get baptized 1st in order to become Catholic and I think somebody could rise the fact that you're simultaneously Muslim as a problem for marriage. Except if you prior to that take Muslim marriage and then reject your religion. Then I think it would be Ok. Although you would have to check if Muslim marriage has any value to catholic church, because if it does, then it's impossible.

It's because your catholic girlfriend would have to get permission from Bishop for marriage with not Catholic, which she wouldn't get I think.
Polsyr 6 | 769
10 Mar 2013 #3
It depends on the priest in the particular church and what the bishop in his area will say. There is no general rule.

You may find a church willing to do a church wedding, even if you are already married by some other rite (be it civil or Sunnah or anything else).

But one thing is almost certain, since you have no baptism certificate or any other document issued by a church that says you are Christian, they will require you to sign a paper declaring:

1. You are not married to anyone else anywhere else.
2. You will not demand that your wife changes religion and you will not criticize nor question her religion.
3. You will not interfere with her religious practices or object to them.
4. Your future children will be raised as Catholics, will be baptized and confirmed accordingly, and will be granted the same religious rights and freedom as the mother when they become adults.

You may also be asked to bring two witnesses that have known you for more than 3 or 5 years to testify that you are not married.

Number 4 is something that most Muslim men refuse to accept - which is the main reason you don't see so many Muslim men marrying Christian women in Churches.
OP Ahusain 3 | 12
13 Mar 2013 #4
Thank you Monitor & Polsyr. Let's see what happens in reality...!
Harry
13 Mar 2013 #5
A Catholic friend of mine married a very strongly committed atheist without too many problems (although they made a sizeable donation to the church roof repair fund and he said he regarded all the promises he'd made as ones made under duress, i.e. ones with no standing), so it can be done. It very much depends on the individual priest.
OP Ahusain 3 | 12
16 Mar 2013 #6
Thank you, Harry. Parents probably won't come here now, I've only just discovered...so may not have the Mosque wedding here but the church one, most likely...

You do raise an interesting point about promises and duress. Opinion seems to be divided on the topic but it's worth me finding out more.
Ironside 48 | 9,827
16 Mar 2013 #7
(although they made a sizeable donation to the church roof repair fund and he said he regarded all the promises he'd made as ones made under duress, i.e. ones with no standing),

What duress? He is just a little lying man! Well I guess it is all right for you as long as he can get away with it.

What alleged donation has anything to do with it - I don't want even to guess. As you know your friend is economical with the truth.

.so may not have the Mosque wedding here but the church one, most likely...

Well A if you don't intend to keep your word what kind of man are you?
From your post seems to me that wedding in the Church is important to your future wife.
If I were you I would reconsider marriage as her duty would be to rise children as Catholics and you wont have it.

On more practical note if you are not marring in the church and you want your marriage to be valid in the church eyes, you and your intended need to promise certain things, and sign it.

If you would be marring in the church. You would have to promise to help rise your children as Catholics, either that or that is taken for granted. Don't know what Muslims? Probably make you swear twice.

You second idea to marry in Mosque with Church blessing is impossible to achieve.
As your duty as Muslim is to rise your children as Muslim and for Catholics is the same. Contradiction.

One word edited by the mod :)
Harry
16 Mar 2013 #8
What duress?

The fact that it was made clear to him that he could either make that promise or his wife would not be allowed to get married in the eyes of the Catholic church. It's the same promise that all non-Catholics have to make and it is very often made under duress.

As you know your friend is economical with the truth.

I see your reading skills are as sharp as ever. Either that or yet again you're just arguing with what I didn't say.

her duty would be to rise children as Catholics

Just as it is the duty of all Catholics to be monogamous and not have sex before marriage, which is why nobody in Poland has sex outside marriage, right?

You second idea to marry in Mosque with Church blessing is impossible to achieve.

Tell that to a Jewish friend of mine who married his Catholic wife: they had their wedding in a synagogue and then in a Catholic church (it was either that or have it in a synagogue and then a registry office because Poland discriminates against people from all faiths other than the Catholic faith).
AmerTchr 4 | 201
16 Mar 2013 #9
Duress?

I agree, there is NO duress here or anywhere in this process.

Seriously, if someone is going to compromise their religious faith(s), why pretend all this?

Tell your parents (and hers) you and your wife will design the ceremony to fit your new life together. Whether it is civil, Catholic or Muslim or any combination of those, do what is right for YOU, not THEM.

Compromise isn't a solution in many areas of life.
Ironside 48 | 9,827
16 Mar 2013 #10
The fact that it was made clear to him that he could either make that promise or his wife would not be allowed to get married in the eyes of the Catholic church

It is preliminary condition. You want something form them not they from you. You can walk away. If you are buying something, you do not complain about duress. take it or leave it.

where is duress?

It's the same promise that all non-Catholics have to make and it is very often made under duress.

Well, it is not nice I grant you that but necessary I think.

I see your reading skills are as sharp as ever.

Well he suggested that donation has something to do with the priest in qestion consent to they marring. Also he is making stuff up about duress, either he gave is word or not, nobody forced him to do it. If he did and he is backing out he is dishonest swine in other words economical with the truth.

Just as it is the duty of all Catholics to be monogamous and not have sex before marriage, which is why nobody in Poland has sex outside marriage, right?

I have no time for your logical fallacy Harry.

Tell that to a Jewish friend of mine who married his Catholic wife: they had their wedding in a synagogue and then in a Catholic church (

Well did I say anything about synagogue Harry? Are your reading skills are as bad as ever?
Harry
16 Mar 2013 #11
I agree, there is NO duress here or anywhere in this process.

'Either you promise something that you would not otherwise promise or you can forget about marrying this man/woman': are you familiar with the meaning of the word duress?

Seriously, if someone is going to compromise their religious faith(s), why pretend all this?

Because if one person does not compromise their religions beliefs, those two people cannot get married in a Catholic church, even if only one of them gives a toss about getting married in a Catholic church.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
16 Mar 2013 #12
Tell that to a Jewish friend of mine who married his Catholic wife: they had their wedding in a synagogue and then in a Catholic church

Was that "legal" in the eyes of the Church?
I don't know if what I've read is up to date but:

§ 3. Zabrania się, przed lub po kanonicznym zawarciu małżeństwa zgodnie z przepisem § 1, stosować inne religijne zawarcie tegoż małżeństwa w celu wyrażenia lub odnowienia zgody małżeńskiej. Zabroniony jest również taki obrzęd religijny zawarcia małżeństwa, w którym asystujący katolicki i szafarz niekatolicki, stosując równocześnie własny obrzęd, pytają o wyrażenie zgody stron».

mateusz.pl/rodzina/as-mm.htm

Ahusain, from what I've read on this site, one needs to get a dispensation to marry someone who wasn't baptised (if you want to have the Catholic ceremony in the church).
Harry
16 Mar 2013 #13
You want something form them not they from you.

In this case the husband wanted nothing from the RCC. He was happy to get married anywhere. The wife was the one who wanted a church wedding. The RCC wanted something from him, not the other way round.

Well, it is not nice I grant you that but necessary I think.

Why is it necessary to force people to make a promise which they do not want to make?

I have no time for your logical fallacy Harry.

What an interesting way of saying that you cannot argue against the truth.

Well did I say anything about synagogue Harry?

Do you wish to say that a wedding in a mosque and then a church is impossible but that a wedding in a synagogue and then a church is possible? That would be very original logic, even for you.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
16 Mar 2013 #14
Why is it necessary to force people to make a promise which they do not want to make?

According to Matrimonii sacramentum from 18.03.1966 the non-Catholic party is released form making such promises. Only the Catholic party is required to make them (AAS 58(1966), p.235-239.)

From: mateusz.pl/rodzina/as-mm.htm
AmerTchr 4 | 201
16 Mar 2013 #15
AmerTchr: I agree, there is NO duress here or anywhere in this process.

Ahhhh, so then the person needs to just admit that they're a slave to the wants and desires of others then and get over it. Still, I guess it is true that a large percentage of the population hasn't got the courage to do what they want and feel that society "forces" them to live their lives bound by the rules of others in all things. These people probably feel that Starbucks makes them order under duress by not having pancakes on the menu or that speed limits constitute duress as well.
Harry
16 Mar 2013 #16
speed limits constitute duress as well

Speed limits exist for the good of society as a whole. Promises not to interfere with the indoctrination of children exist for the good of whom precisely?
Ironside 48 | 9,827
16 Mar 2013 #17
In this case the husband wanted nothing from the RCC. He was happy to get married anywhere. The wife was the one who wanted a church wedding. The RCC wanted something from him, not the other way round.

It was his wife to be. It was between themselves to sort it all out. He could say no to her demand of marring in the church - he goes along with it so that his choice. where is duress?

How predictable that you would blame the RCC.

Why is it necessary to force people to make a promise which they do not want to make?

because if somebody wants to be married in the Church should accept all condition attached. They could choose civil ceremony.
Why do you pretend not to understand, that what I don't like in your debates. always trying to score always with agenda. We know Harry what do you think about the RCC, you are looking for an angle to hit it again - that is not debate but boring excrement.

What an interesting way of saying that you cannot argue against the truth.

Well I say how it is I cannot be bother to yet again to prove that your logical fallacy is in fact a logical fallacy.

Do you wish to say that a wedding in a mosque and then a church is impossible but that a wedding in a synagogue and then a church is possible?

No, just wanted to say that it has nothing to the with OP qestion and with my post and is plainly off-topic. You have been using logical fallacy as your tool to hit at why you are prejudiced against that now you have lost your plot altogether. You are not able to construct a decent argument.

According to Matrimonii sacramentum from 18.03.1966 the non-Catholic party is released form making such promises. Only the Catholic party is required to make them (AAS 58(1966)

When they are marring in the church. I think it differ when they marry elsewhere but Catholic party wishes to have his/her marriage valid in the eyes of the church.
Harry
16 Mar 2013 #18
because if somebody wants to be married in the Church should accept all condition attached. They could choose civil ceremony.

She wanted the RCC wedding, he had to accept the conditions.

Why do you pretend not to understand, that what I don't like in your debates. always trying to score always with agenda. We know Harry what do you think about the RCC, you are looking for an angle to hit it again - that is not debate but boring excrement.

Perhaps you could try to discuss the topic and not the poster? Thank you in advance.

I cannot be bother to yet again to prove that your logical fallacy is in fact a logical fallacy

Cannot be bothered to prove? You sure it is not more simple? You sure it is not just that you cannot prove?

it has nothing to the with OP qestion and with my post and is plainly off-topic.

The OP was asking about having a non-Catholic ceremony followed by a Catholic one, I mentioned something which was precisely that. For what reason do you wish to dismiss it as off topic? Is it simply easier to claim that something is off-topic than it is to debate it? In the same way that it is easier to claim that something is a logical fallacy rather than to debate it.

Catholic party wishes to have his/her marriage valid in the eyes of the church.

I once knew a couple who got married only in the eyes of the church. The amount of paperwork involved was horrific, so they just asked her family priest if he could give them an 'in the eyes of God only wedding', he was happy to do that, off the books, so to speak, the bride's mother was happy with that (apparently it was done pretty much solely to keep her happy) and last I heard they were happily living together in Canada.
Ironside 48 | 9,827
16 Mar 2013 #19
She wanted the RCC wedding, he had to accept the conditions.

Thank you! It didn't hurt did it.

The OP was asking about having a non-Catholic ceremony followed by a Catholic one

Yes, you are right Harry this time. I do apologize, my bad. I mixed OP post with Monitor post

permission from Bishop for marriage with not Catholic,

You were right to post that example.

once knew a couple who got married only in the eyes of the church.

Well good for them. I have never complained about amount or paper work to get my marriage validated in the church.
Exactly my point - each to his own.
Your friend agreed to get married in the church and then he complains and now he is backing out. phew!crybaby
Harry
16 Mar 2013 #20
Yes, you are right Harry this time. I do apologize, my bad.

No problem at all, apology accepted.

I have never complained about amount or paper work to get my marriage validated in the church.

For them it was a major pain in the arse. He was a citizen of some country in west Africa (Mali perhaps) and she was from SE Poland. The amount of paperwork to be done (and the time it takes) very much depends on the familiarity that the given court has with citizens of that nation and the procedures thereof, so it was going to take a long time to sort out. I think that there was also some issue with his Canadian residency expiring too. Can't really remember.

Your friend agreed to get married in the church and then he complains and now he is backing out. phew!crybaby

My friend is the woman, I actually think the guy is more than a bit of a douchebag.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
16 Mar 2013 #21
AmerTchr: speed limits constitute duress as well
Speed limits exist for the good of society as a whole. Promises not to interfere with the indoctrination of children exist for the good of whom precisely?

As I said, you (and your friend) clearly do not understand what constitutes duress.

It requires threat (usually physical, but sometimes mental) or threat of another unlawful action as a consequence of not doing something.

Duress has two aspects. One is that it negates the person's consent to an act, such as sexual activity or the entering into a contract; or, secondly, as a possible legal defense or justification to an otherwise unlawful act.[1] A defendant utilizing the duress defense admits to breaking the law, but claims that he/she is not liable because, even though the act broke the law, it was only performed because of extreme unlawful pressure.[2] In criminal law, a duress defense is similar to a plea of guilty, admitting partial culpability, so that if the defense is not accepted then the criminal act is admitted.

Catholic society has their rules every bit as much as a community has traffic laws and when your buddy approached them (no threat) and asked for a church marriage (still no threat) they outlined what he had to do in order for that to happen. Unless the priest or the girl's family threatened him, then no, there is no duress.

The rules/laws of society and any religious group (which incidentally includes the Muslims) are the same, exactly. You elect whether you will accept them or not based upon what your desired outcome is.

By your interpretation, Meatloaf was held in duress by the girl's demand that he love her forever if he wanted to "go all the way" by the dashboard lights. He made his choice.

Don't like the church's rules, don't marry the girl at the church. Don't want to accept the speed limits on a highway, don't get a driver's license. Don't want the "home run" on the front seat of the car so bad, don't make promises that you can't keep.


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