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I need advice: divorce and my rights as a father in Poland


OP Kurt 2 | 29
23 May 2011 #31
@ Zimmy i have asked that question because i do suspect something like that could be possible but her obvious answer is "she does not have anyone"

to be honest, i think for the moment i should just be realistic and honest to myself about this relationship its clearly not working and it wont work and despite my best efforts to try and salvage this marriage it cant work if both parties are not equally committed to making things work.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 May 2011 #32
I sense that you want it to work; it shows in your words, but frankly, this woman is exhibiting all the signs that she wants 'out'.

Make it as difficult for her as you can. She, like other women will play hard ball with you. The nicest, loveliest, gentle women (before marriage) will legally rape you if they can, and most laws allow them to. When it comes to divorce (among many other venues),

women don't believe in equality. Shock her by taking the offensive and let her know that you want her out of your life. I don't know your position on the child. You can make it difficult for her to take the child out of the country. That should be one of your first steps.
OP Kurt 2 | 29
23 May 2011 #33
Zimmy- yes I do want it to work and the reason for initiniatly agreeing to go to Poland was to make it easier for her, and avoid the solicitor route that will prevent her from removing our child from the UK. i have been doing allot of research on going to Poland etc.. but all avenues i have explored comes to one conlusion.. its a bad decision to go with this woman to her country under the circumstances.

However i am still thinking of a suitable compromise, i still love my wife very much and my first objective is to remain married but that will not happen..

so the next logical step would be to proceed with legal action to get this matter sorted... and yes I agree i have seen what a monster a woman can become, she will have no problems screwing me if she found a way to do it.

As for my child we have a very good relationship, it is however suffering a bit through everything thats going on and thats why its vital to proceed to formalise things, she is aware what the implications will be on her if she decides to run off to Poland without my consent it will take some time but i could have our child returned to the country and she could potentially be charged with kidnapp
Softsong 5 | 495
23 May 2011 #34
Not likely, but remotely possible that if you show her that you can stand your ground, she may realize she is losing something she really wants. It sounds like you have constantly given more because you may love more. Sometimes, women are more attracted to a man who can be nice to them, but keeps them from walking all over them.

She holds all the cards right now, but by standing your ground with her you may be able to bluff that you hold some cards too. Like a bit of indifference to her. She is used to you wanting to make it work, moving to Poland to satisfy her desire, paying for all her expenses, cooking so she can be free to take care of your child. And she knows you love your daughter. She thinks she can do anything she wants. And she may have the advantage of the law. Take the initiative.

Do what it takes to prevent the child from being taken away. Tell her you want the marriage to work, but it will be best to work on it here where you already have a good life and income. And that if the "bump" between you improves, then maybe all three of you can move to Poland. At this point, the stress of a move would make things worse.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 May 2011 #35
Softsong gave you good advice and it's what I've suggested as well. Don't be a doormat. She senses this in you and will pull out all the stops to take advantage of your 'good heart'. You're a smart guy. Take the offensive, even if it stings because it will hurt much much more if she gets her way (again).

Become the edgy alpha male she was interested in before marriage. She knows you still love her and she will take advantage of that.
Don't let her! Let her know you love her too much for you to let her get her way. As a woman she will be confused by that. Give her nothing without a fight.

Good luck
z_darius 14 | 3,968
23 May 2011 #36
Kurt, it seems you are the same guy who sought advice here on how to avoid paying taxes that you would have to pay if you establish Poland as your residence (180+ days per year in Poland).

Sorry to hear that the personal life is not going to well theses days, but perhaps it would be good for you to realize at this point about various ramifications of your proposed move to Poland. If wifey is a ***** she will make sure the Polish tax man will learn abut your British business. Heck, if she doesn't volunteer if will transpire when it comes to the money side of the possible divorce. Poland and UK have very, very close relations in the matter and if the Polish government finds itself in the position to ask the Brits about your income on the Isles, they will get the information down to every last penny you make.

As for the family law, the court will likely go for an upper range of national averages as they pertain to Poland's realities, but nothing as crazy as the American system where (mostly) fathers get sucked dry.

As mentioned above, seeking legal advice, save for trying to fix the family, is pretty much the best thing you can do.
Midas 1 | 571
23 May 2011 #37
Well, Softsong I understand what You're getting at.

In my humble opinion if one gets involved with a Polish ( or any other ) Princess ( don't see why one should get into a long term relationship with one personally, but hey, love works in mysterious ways and all that ) the only way to keep this thing working is to play the bluffing/haggling game. Constantly. Every other ******* day. Yup, I wouldn't have the patience.

But it seems far to late for that in this case, he's been too good for her for too long and she's pretty much at the "You do what You're told or else" stage right now.

Edit: She holds all the cards right now,

Hardly. I can think of at least a few very dick moves to pull on a women one's basically paying the bills for and allowing to live in one's house. I'm not suggesting he goes for them though, because their dick moves and he doesn't sound like a dick. <grin>

Also, Zimmy makes some very valid points up there - most women these days will feel perfectly ok with using the system to basically screw their former hubbies out of whatever they can and will easily justify such behaviour to themselves. Polish women are hardly an exception here.

Still, it all boils down to:

a) Don't go to Poland,

b) Make sure You do what You can to prevent her from flying the child off to Poland,

c) Lawyer up and fight it in a British court.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
23 May 2011 #38
No wonder the ladies standing in the lay by,s on the forest edge are so popular...

You have all the advantages of a Polish wife , and you don,t have to give them your house and all your money....
Midas 1 | 571
23 May 2011 #39
You have all the advantages of a Polish wife - are there any? <big grin>

Personally I think TS isn't going through the worse drama. I've been told by some of my Irish acquaintances that a lot of Polish female - Irish bloke marriages/relationships fell apart rather rapidly and in a very ugly fashion after the economic crisis hit Ireland.

Now that dowright sucks donkey balls - being in financial straits AND having a woman call it quits at the same time.
southern 75 | 7,096
23 May 2011 #40
I've been told by some of my Irish acquaintances that a lot of Polish female - Irish bloke marriages/relationships fell apart rather rapidly and in a very ugly fashion after the economic crisis hit Ireland.

The same here I lost two Polki after crisis hit Greece but I keep the flag high.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 May 2011 #41
Now that dowright sucks donkey balls - being in financial straits AND having a woman call it quits at the same time.

My,my,my, how often does that coincidence take place? Quite often, isn't that amazing?

"As soon as women belong to us, we no longer belong to them."................Michel de Montaigne

"A woman has a dozen different ways to make a man happy; and a hundred ways to make him unhappy."........James Huneker

" Women who understand other women, don't like them"...............Zimmy
Softsong 5 | 495
23 May 2011 #42
I wish OP good luck. And to Zimmy, there are hurts on both sides of male/female relationships. It often seems like the generous soul picks the user type. Both sexes equally so.

It comes down to the chase, and the difficult one seeming like a better prize.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 May 2011 #43
Both sexes equally so.

Ask any man going through the court systems whether he is considered equally. Women initiate 70% of all divorces. Men don't because they know they will lose their kids not to mention the pressures of monetary payments. Since women receive child support, sometimes alimony and of course have BigGovernment assist them as well, they have less to lose.

A hypothetical question for the women: (borrowed from Patrick)

Suppose you’re in love with a man and the two of you are considering marriage. As you’re getting close to committing, he tells you that he’d like you to sign a pre-nuptial agreement. The agreement states:

1. If the marriage results in children, he will stay home to care for them or take a lesser career move to be more free to care for them.

2. You(the wife) will be primarily financially responsible for the support of the family — even if he’s working.

3. If the marriage ends in divorce, he will retain custody of the children. You may see them four days per month.

4. You will pay him (at least) 40% of your take home pay every month if the marriage results in divorce. This amount will be set as a dollar amount and will remain in effect regardless of any change in your personal financial circumstances.

Would you sign that, or would you judge that to be a bad deal? Because basically, ALL men in the Western world are signing that pre-nup when they get married.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
23 May 2011 #44
You forgot to mention about the husband getting the house , even though the wife paid for it....
Softsong 5 | 495
23 May 2011 #45
I agree with you that the courts have become skewed. It seems to me that there is overcompensation going on in the western world for conditions that are still prevalent in some parts of the world. Women have not always had things to their advantage, but have often suffered. Sometimes paying with their lives. That being said, I would like to see the court system fair.

But, my point was less about the legal system, than who you choose and how you choose. It is hard for either sex to see the merits of someone who shows caring and love at the outset. That person can be perceived as boring and without other options. And it could be he or she might make the best partner.

The difficult person seems a challenge and unconsciously we tend to think that makes them more valuable. Often, the opposite is true.
Ant63 13 | 410
23 May 2011 #46
Still, it all boils down to:

a) Don't go to Poland,

b) Make sure You do what You can to prevent her from flying the child off to Poland,

c) Lawyer up and fight it in a British court.

First send her a letter recorded delivery stating you do not want her to remove your child from the UK.

When she does use "The Hague Convention for Abducted children" to secure her return.

For now get in touch with Reunite.org and take some serious free advice.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
23 May 2011 #47
When she does use "The Hague Convention for Abducted children" to secure her return.

Not a good idea.

Why?

Poland routinely ignores the Hague Convention.

The only safe way to protect the child is to make sure that the child never leaves the UK.
Ant63 13 | 410
23 May 2011 #48
Ok it doesn't like returning to the US but UK has very little trouble with returns.

Unfortunately I am experiencing the Hague and Poland at the moment. It's not so bad but earlier posts on the court system are quite realistic. My partner (the mother) was treated like scum of the earth initially but now they understand the TRUTH they are much more receptive. I would not want to get divorced there if I wasn't Polish.
Midas 1 | 571
24 May 2011 #49
Yeah, the Hague Convention is what I clumsily mentioned earlier.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 May 2011 #50
The Chen case clarified this

Chen is ignored in a lot of Europeans countries, its strongly challenged in Ireland because the presidence was set there...He could go for Zambrano which gives him a much stronger case.
EdWilczynski
24 May 2011 #51
I would not want to get divorced there if I wasn't Polish.

Youre this guy right??

zuziaschmidt.pl/
OP Kurt 2 | 29
24 May 2011 #52
Ant63
Thanks will look at that web site now
Koala 1 | 332
24 May 2011 #53
It seems a bit weird to me that at first you're ready to go to Poland for sake of your family, then you're willing to file a divorce a couple of hours later. As others said, fight for her if you still love her, but do so by standing up to her.

In case you do file for a divorce, what are the chances of you getting primary parent rights (sorrym I don't know the proper English terminology - I mean that you live with your daughter, the mother meets with her occasionally)? Does the fact that you have reliable income helps with that in UK?
grubas 12 | 1,390
24 May 2011 #54
she is aware what the implications will be on her if she decides to run off to Poland without my consent it will take some time but i could have our child returned to the country and she could potentially be charged with kidnapp

What implications?Charged with kidnapp?She is the mother and I understand she has custody,and there is no way anybody will give her problems if she decide to move to PL with a baby.The mother and the child are citizens of Poland and no court in PL will give her hard time.I don't see how you can stop her from going to Poland and this is exactly what she should do.Good luck fighting her in Polish court as a foraigner who does not even know what is happening around him.Moving to Poland with her is a very bad idea,your marriage is over and in Poland she will quickly find a bf and what are you going to do since you don't even speak the language?
Harry
24 May 2011 #55
She is the mother and I understand she has custody

You understand wrong, surprisingly enough.
grubas 12 | 1,390
24 May 2011 #56
And where exactly I got it wrong?
Harry
24 May 2011 #57
She does not have custody.
grubas 12 | 1,390
24 May 2011 #58
She does or she doesn't that's not the point.The point is that she can take baby to Poland and this dude can't do anything about.I mean seriously, do you think that any court would charge her with kiddnaping her own baby?
Harry
24 May 2011 #59
The point is that she can take baby to Poland and this dude can't do anything about.

Actually, no she can't, not without his permission.

I mean seriously, do you think that any court would charge her with kiddnaping her own baby?

It is an offence under the Child Abduction Act of 1984 for a parent to remove a child from the UK without the consent of the other person who has parental responsibility for that child. And yes people are charged under that act.

Why not stick to talking about things which you know about?
Midas 1 | 571
24 May 2011 #60
1) It seems a bit weird to me that at first you're ready to go to Poland for sake of your family, then you're willing to file a divorce a couple of hours later.

To be fair, I believe the situation was developing as he posted.

However, how else do You expect a guy to respond when his "wife" tells him they need to hop over to a solicitor's where he's going to sign over his kids?

Any man with half a brain is going to lawyer up in such a case.

2) Grubas - you don't seem to understand law.... Sorry, You understand it as a number of Polish people "understand it" - that as long as they're Polish and screw a foreigner a Polish court is going to do nothing about it.

Well, your perception is wrong.

They both have custody - joint custody. Joint custody means some decisions about a child's future can be made by any of the parents, some - only by both of them.

The decision to move a child to another country can only be made by both parents, period.

If one parent decides he's just going to pick up a kid and leave for Australia in the middle of the night --> yes my friend, he will be charged with kidnapping in any CIVILIZED country. Harry has already quoted the appropriate UK legal act.

So, to answer Your question:

I mean seriously, do you think that any court would charge her with kiddnaping her own baby?

Any court in the UK.

So don't speak about matters You don't know **** about. I understand You're pissed off because he did a Polish girl repeatedly and You don't, but please have some dignity.

3) Kurt...

Please read the following statements made by grubas ( who happens to be Polish, I judge from the spelling ) very carefully:

here is no way anybody will give her problems if she decide to move to PL with a baby.The mother and the child are citizens of Poland and no court in PL will give her hard time.

Good luck fighting her in Polish court as a foraigner who does not even know what is happening around him.

Unfortunately, these are true statemets. Polish courts are biased in such cases.

Triple check that You've done everything possible to prevent her from pulling off a runner with the baby.


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