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Aliments and abortion (I was married to a Polish guy)


champchamp 1 | 21
24 Nov 2012 #1
Hello guys

I hope you could help me with some infos. I was married in 2011 with a Polish guy. Before that I was with him since 2008 on and off relationship. just 2 mos after the wedding we found out i was already pregnant. He suddenly changed! He wanted me get abortion! he told me if i was not guna do it then we will get a divorce. He took me to see several doctors but each time we visit, i talk to him that i dont want to do it but he was very demanding. I felt hopeless.... I am from Asia and I have nowhere to run to and i have no idea what to do with my situation now. He asked me to leave his house around sept. telling me hell give me 1k a month. He is a lawyer in a known company in Warsaw and he earns about 30k a month. He gives his x GF a 3k pln aliment for 2 kids excluding school fees and clothes.

he does not pay for my medical insurance in luxmed but registered his Xgf for a VIP under his company.

What do i have to do?I could not live in winter with 1k PLN
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 469
24 Nov 2012 #2
what about friends?
why does he wants an abortion? you *had* to have a talk about it?
couldn't you just give a birth and leave the kid in hospital?
Lenka 3 | 1,514
24 Nov 2012 #3
He has to pay for his child.Find some lawyer and if necessary sue him.
enkidu 7 | 623
24 Nov 2012 #4
I don't really know what is the real situation, but:
- In Polish law - child born during marriage is automatically presumed to be husband's child. There would be no DNA test or other funny stuff.

- Forcing someone to get an abortion is illegal. In fact - abortion in most cases is illegal.

He has a duty to support you and child at the appropriate level. My advise - if he would try something nasty - go straight to the Court of law. They may set a certain amount of support even without getting divorce.

If he would try to force an abortion - go straight to the Police.

Also - there are various NGO that would help you.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
24 Nov 2012 #5
Thanks Enkidu,

I really tried to talk things over with him to save our relationship. I waited 3 months now and he still does not want the child. I was hoping he'd change. I had been staying with my parents for some time since he left me but they are going back to asia now and I am not sure that he is going to support me. We can have a DNA test. it's his child.... the only problem is that he really does not want OUR CHILD.... i dont understand him at all.... but ill consider your advices
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
24 Nov 2012 #6
If he would try to force an abortion - go straight to the Police.

Don't go straight to the police - go straight to the local Radio Maryja supporting church. They'll defend her far more than the police will.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
24 Nov 2012 #7
Thanks...wouldn't that be too scandalous for his career?
I'll try to do anything. Not that I want to get in big trouble with him but if I have no choice I think I'll do what I can
noreenb 7 | 557
30 Nov 2012 #8
Oh, I am so sorry. I hope you will have a wonderful little baby who will bring you a lot of happiness. I'd try to give him a chance but after it, if it will not work I would try to forget. Of course, he must help you with the money. I am sure he earns a lot. Oh, yes, he does. If he doesn't want to give you needed money, it's so strange for me. He must support you. You were close to each other, weren't you? Maybe not everything looks so bad.

Take care of yourself and your baby. Everything will be fine, you will see.
Ask also your family for money. Maybe they help you. Maybe look for a job? I don't really know.
natasia 3 | 368
30 Nov 2012 #9
Thanks...wouldn't that be too scandalous for his career?
I'll try to do anything. Not that I want to get in big trouble with him but if I have no choice I think I'll do what I can

So where are you living now? Somewhere on the 1k a month, 4 months pregnant?

Ok, you have three things to deal with here:
- The emotional upset of him marrying you then suddenly dumping you as you are pregnant, and wanting to kill your joint child, and not supporting you in pregnancy (that is a big one)

- The financial/practical issue of how to support yourself and be ok and have a home on your own in a foreign country, pregnant for the first time (and recently dumped)

- The anger no doubt you feel about him having 30k per month, less 3 k for previous kids, and only giving you 1k (that is bad) (I would be cross)

- The responsibility as the only loving parent at the moment (although that could and probably will change once the kid is here) of thinking about stable home to bring child into.

You have A LOT on your plate, and now your parents have gone, and you are alone in coldening Poland. You poor thing ; (

Ok, answers:

- For now, think about how he must have loved you to marry you, and how this pregnancy has for some reason thrown him, and how he needs time, and for the baby to be born for him to come to himself and work out his feelings. I think maybe he will want contact with you and the baby, and everything is possible, so just hold on and try not to be upset. You have done nothing wrong, and he just has a funny bone and this has taken him wrongly ... so bide your time. Poczekaj, as they say. Be patient.

- In your pregnant state, stability of home and emotions is important, so your baby will be happy and everything will be good. I think you have a case for meekly asking him for more generous financial support at the moment - lay it out on paper, your outgoings, your needs, etc, and see where that gets you.

I don't think you should be working, but I don't know who you are or what you do. If there is something you could do by email/online/etc. then try to do that, because any money you can earn is your independence and security for you and your child.

- Make some friends, and surround yourself with people who are on your side. Have two or three women ready to come with you for the birth, or get your mother or other family member lined up. Be self-sufficient and organised. You will need support after the birth.

- Plan to be honest, decent, and undemanding, as far as the father is concerned. Be firm that you will have the baby, but wait for him to come to you. Gently and fairly frequently remind him that you love him, are having his child, and are waiting for him.

And if he doesn't come round, then focus on your lovely child and both your futures. You will need to decide whether you stay in Poland or go back to Asia, but either way, the child is a gift, and it would be great if he could understand and share that, but if he doesn't, then you and your family and future husband will.

You can't force him to do anything. You can divorce him yourself. But I would wait until the baby has been here a while before you make any decisions at all. This kind of situation is one where it could all change.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
3 Dec 2012 #10
Take care of yourself and your baby. Everything will be fine, you will see.
Ask also your family for money. Maybe they help you. Maybe look for a job? I don't really know.

Hello Noreenb! :) Thank you for that wonderful message. You know what....

I waited since September for him to change his mind. Maybe It does not sound so bad because I also could not post everything here. I feel bad when I type what is happening and have to read it coz it looks much worse than how I really see it in reality. I also thought he is shocked. I considered adoption, I told him I will leave the child in Asia with my parents so I can be with him. Unfortunately, he is blaming our child for RUINING his life. I honestly don't know in what way. It's beyond my comprehension. I tried to talk things over with him again just recently. I spent the weekend over his place but all he could say was he loves me but he can't accept the "thing, creature" instead of calling our child a baby. He even named the child ARTHROTEC. He even told me "how about we send the head of this child in a formalin to your mom?" That was probably the most painful thing he ever said about the baby.

I am lost. I did all I could to keep him even if it means not staying with the child as he grows up, he was very demanding this time. YES we were in love and I am still....but isn't it strange that he tells me he is missing me when he admitted to me he sleeps with his x GF in his house while I am away and pregnant. he was even able to ask how can i live with 1000zl a month coz it is just a ****. God I really don't want to ask him for money. I was only asking him to give me time until few weeks after I give birth then I'll leave and if he still wants me then I'll come back. Now things is getting worse between us. But just to clear things, I never forced him to like the child or force him to be with me still if he does not want but I never forget to remind him how I love him.

My parents had been paying everything else for me. They buy my clothes now and even food. I have part time jobs online but it isn't enough to survive one month if I will be alone.

But thanks for the reply. Reading it from people somehow helps me ease up inside...
MoOli 9 | 484
3 Dec 2012 #11
Have the baby and sue the barstud* even if u in Poland if u need help mail me and I can help you guide through the proper agencies.Trust me even in these cases in Poland woman can take the man to cleaners,but dont accept him after you step on his toes.remember WAR IS A WAR.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
3 Dec 2012 #12
Hi Natasia, thanks for your reply :) yea I know how in deep SH** I am. It's more than what you can imagine

When he proposed me marriage it really seemed to me like a cinderella story but when he found out about my pregnancy, he started telling me how regrets it. He even told me he was only forced to marry me because my Mom did not want us to be together unless we're married BUT holy cow that was too much for him to even blame my mother. No one could force somebody to marry if they don't intend to.

So where are you living now? Somewhere on the 1k a month, 4 months pregnant?
- I still have until December 9 for the apartment then I don't know where I will be living.

I don't think you should be working, but I don't know who you are or what you do. If there is something you could do by email/online/etc. then try to do that, because any money you can earn is your independence and security for you and your child.

-I was a student. Now im a garbage. I tried online jobs, believe me i spend 12 hours a day it is not enough to cover all bills plus my food coz i couldnt stop myself from being hungry.

You can't force him to do anything. You can divorce him yourself. But I would wait until the baby has been here a while before you make any decisions at all. This kind of situation is one where it could all change.

-Seriously, he told me never to expect him to change about his feelings to our child. For him our child ruined his life but he has ruined the child's life more than he ever imagined. I am sure he wants me to lose this child by all the pressures he gives. oh btw he earns 50k now how could he have a ****** life with such money

You can't force him to do anything. You can divorce him yourself. But I would wait until the baby has been here a while before you make any decisions at all. This kind of situation is one where it could all change.

-I never forced him to to anything... I always talk to him in a nice way and all I could get are insults.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
3 Dec 2012 #13
Champchamp,the situation saddens and sickens me.I really hope things work out for the best,and I hope that you have a happy and healthy baby that brings you lots of joy;with or without him.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
3 Dec 2012 #14
Have the baby and sue the barstud* even if u in Poland if u need help mail me and I can help you guide through the proper agencies.Trust me even in these cases in Poland woman can take the man to cleaners,but dont accept him after you step on his toes.remember WAR IS A WAR.

Hi there MoOli! You are probably right about suing him but he is a good lawyer. Not an adwokat but he has good connections. I am afraid he can just pay people to win the case easily... I waited long enough for him to change but I guess it's too far from reality. sheesh...! but thanks for your reply :)
kaz200972 2 | 229
3 Dec 2012 #15
ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/mainte
oecd.org/els/familiesandchil

The links above may be of some use. Under Polish law you are entitled to child support payments and on his salary it will be considerably more than 1000PLN (probably more like 2000PLN).

Please don't think of giving up your child or leaving it with your parents, this child will need it's mother all the more given that it's father has rejected it. You will suffer too if you do not see your child.

This man is a piece of sh-t, he is not worth your affection or care, his ex is a total wh-re for sleeping with him knowing you are pregnant, throw these two bits of human excretia out of your life, take the man to court and ensure you have enough money for your child, then divorce the pig.

Your child will bring you untold joy but this man will only bring you misery, get rid of hin aqsap.
Best wishes for your future and for your expected child.
enkidu 7 | 623
3 Dec 2012 #16
I am a man. A Polish man. And I should show some solidarity to him, right?
But I can't. Even if I try. He is a bloody bastard. He doesn't deserve to be called a man.
I am ashamed that he is one of my own kind.

Dump him. Don't believe he would change. Don't wait for the things to get worse.
It would never get better.
He is far beyond any help.

Obviously - You are for him just a "trophy wife". Exotic, Asian toy.
This is not the way that woman shall be treated. And now - when
the child is on the way and things are getting serious - he does not want to get
serious and be a father of a family.

Don't run away. I see that all you can think of is to get back to your family.
You are protected under Polish law and you don't have to run away.
I don't know if you speak any Polish - but believe me - there is a translator
of every language in Poland. Get legal help.

And don't be ashamed. The shame, the whole shame is on his side.
Not yours.

Even now - on Polish Forums - you show nothing but the loyalty to him.
I would understand if you would curse him in public - but you don't. You are still
trying to be a good, faithful wife. Please accept my deepest respects.

But you have to think about your child.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
3 Dec 2012 #17
Please don't think of giving up your child or leaving it with your parents, this child will need it's mother all the more given that it's father has rejected it. You will suffer too if you do not see your child.

Hi there kaz200972 :) Thanks! you are right. I did everything to save our relationship though but he is now putting up a wall on me. he tells me what he wants and if i cant do it then i wont be with him. I guess ill just give all my love for our child. I really tried to tolerate everything already.

Even thinking of asking him for child support makes me feel very bad. He tells me I only want money but if he did not leave me in this situation I would not be forced to ask him for it. I wish It was easier to get a job! Then i would not have to swallow all insults.

Maybe I shouldn't, maybe I should feel bad. I don't know what's right. I wish he could just agree with 1500 but then when I tried to ask him for it he started calling me names. I guess I have been writing a lot here now. btw, your reply is very much appreciated. Have a good day!

Hi there enkidu! Thanksss a lot for the message. You are right but I could not curse him no matter what. It's hard. I was thinking so hard last night about my situation if I should pursue to take him to the court. probably he's really guna kill me then. Everyone tells me to get legal support. Actually, I did inquire from one NGO in Warsaw just today. Being there and telling the lawyer about my situation and understanding a bit of your country's law made me feel bad that he could lose his job but ONLY if I sue him for the forced abortion. They said I can think about it or just ask for alimony support for the child. My polish language ability is conversational but I understand a lot more than I can speak. I also don't know what he can do with his power and money. He could buy the case... I really don't know much except for legal proceedings but being with him for quite some time, I've seen how good he is being a lawyer. It's scary.
noreenb 7 | 557
3 Dec 2012 #18
champchamp
Your baby is the most important for you.
Don't get to nervous and angry at your husband, just think about a child you are expected.
It will be your ray of the sun, you should concentrate on him/her and do everything what will be good for him/her.
Aliments is something you have to get from your husband for sure.
enkidu 7 | 623
3 Dec 2012 #19
I understand you perfectly.
Yes - you are right - accusing him of forced abortion would probably cost him his job and his freedom. But You don't need to do it.

Just go to the Family Court and demand a child's support and/or legal separation. Maybe a divorce if there is no other way.

He is your husband and and a father of your child. He has some duty.

And remember that - In Polish Family Courts - most of the judges are elderly ladies. They almost always hold the side of the mother.

BTW - "Asian" is a broad word. What country did you come from? You can answer me on PW if you want. You can count on my discretion.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
3 Dec 2012 #20
Hello again! ^_^ Im really happy to get positive replies about the baby! Yes the baby is the most important matter for me now.
I really don't think I was ever angry at my husband and I dont think ill ever be. heh! maybe he treats me this way coz he knows

no matter what he does I never yell at him or even blame him for something. I always thought it is easier to just talk things over than

start a fight but I guess sometimes, no matter what you do, no matter how much you show him how you truly feel inside, it's just not enough.

Maybe this time my maybe will get all that love! :)
good luck to myself with the aliments. I guess will be stepping on a giant's ego.
Lenka 3 | 1,514
3 Dec 2012 #21
I really don't think I was ever angry at my husband and I dont think ill ever be.

That's part of the problem.

maybe he treats me this way coz he knows
no matter what he does I never yell at him or even blame him for something.

Exactly.He treats you this way because he knows he can.It's time to change it girl.

He could buy the case...

Let's assume he tries that:
1-he tries to deny that he's a father-you get DNA tests and that's all.
2-he tries to get the child for himself-rather doubtful
3-he doesn't want to pay-under Polish law every parent is obliged to support the child..Any judge can't say otherwise.Even paid one.

I wish you all the best.Unfortunately there's something about you that reminds me "beaten wife syndrome".He hurts you and you can't even fight for yourself (the child is important but the same goes for you-if you don't think you're worth fighting for than how are you gonna face him?) and you think taking what's yours is something bad ( feeling ashamed because you ask for money that he has to pay?).

He married you and had sex with you if he doesn't like the fact that you're pregnent that's his problem not yours.

Now:
1-as fast as you can go to some lawyer and get legal advice.Ask if you should record your conversation with him,gather documents and so on.Step by step.Then do what he tells you.

He is a big fish but you can fight.Don't wait.The longer you're unprepared...let's just say it's not to good.Remember-child born during marriage is automatically child of the women's husband.The husband has to go to court and file for "zaprzeczenie ojcostwa"/"denial of paternity" to change it.

Girl you don't know how much I wish this b****** got everything he deserves.
Be strong,fight and please keep posting.
P.S.(edited) I forgot one more thing-remember he can try to discredit you.That's one more reason why you should look for legal advice.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
4 Dec 2012 #22
Hello Lenka :) That was a very good post. I appreciate what you wrote. I really do!

The beaten wife syndrome scared me. LOL I am almost sure that syndrome does not only mean physical abuse. I never was abused physically by my husband but emotionally I believe I am. I don't know how much I can tolerate but my patience is too long. It's not that I never fight back. I also voice out what's in my mind just not the harsh way like he does. Harsh I mean... not insulting him. Maybe it's possible that I have such syndrome and probably not but I am almost sure I dont have such scary syndrome.

ahmmm...I never let anyone treat me this way before it's just that my feelings with him are always strong. stupid feelings... I really wish I don't feel this way.

OK I know it's our child and I should already be freaking out with what is happening but when I see him I just could not be cruel but that does not mean I am also ready to give up the life of the child for him. I love him but I would not risk a life. The way I feel about him is just the same as I feel for our child.

I've never seen my parents fight. Not even once in my life. I always see them just talking things over when things go wrong so I guess that's how I am able to keep myself quiet.

You are right maybe things have to change coz even his Xgf was the one beating him but he still falls back for her. strange right coz we're married. I also thought about the possibilities in which you mentioned. If I was in my country, I would probably have more idea what to do but i am just so lost. I went to one NGO again today (o.o) she told me it's better to go home coz citizens are more important than foreigners. Honestly, that made me lose hope again.

DNA test isn't a problem though but I guess he can also refuse to do it. I just hope that things go well and be as much as positive as your post....thanks for the positive attitude :) coz everyone in his family is already pinning me down with negative feelings.
Lenka 3 | 1,514
4 Dec 2012 #23
DNA test isn't a problem though but I guess he can also refuse to do it.

He can't if he wants to prove it's not his child.As I told you-the court will assume (don't take it the wrong way,I believe you I just want to tell it all) it's his child.

she told me it's better to go home coz citizens are more important than foreigners. Honestly, that made me lose hope again.

I can't really argue with a professional.Just remember that in Poland you also have rights.His behaviour will help you.That's why I sugested typing your conversations and gathering documents.You can send him a letter with your statement and see what his replay is going to be.Ask again at NGO or some lawyer (that won't charge you) and see what your options are

Maybe it's possible that I have such syndrome and probably not but I am almost sure I dont have such scary syndrome.

You may not have it but your posts reminded me of the several women I knew that were abused.I mean-you said that you can't even be mad at him.

even his Xgf was the one beating him but he still falls back for her.

My friend's always using expression "gonić króliczka"-"to chase a bunny" for this kind of thing.I once heard "in relationship one party always loves more while the other allows to be loved" .

If I was in my country, I would probably have more idea what to do but i am just so lost.

That's understandable.At home we feel secure and know how to deal with things.

ahmmm...I never let anyone treat me this way before it's just that my feelings with him are always strong. stupid feelings... I really wish I don't feel this way.

Emotions can be, and usually are, messy.Right now you must try to control them and deal with him with your head instead.

I've never seen my parents fight. Not even once in my life.

There's nothing wrong with fighting but it should be done within reason and without real insults.

everyone in his family is already pinning me down with negative feelings.

Don't pay attention.I have three good reasons:
1-They are his family and not yours.I know ppl that can be objective in situations like that but in most cases ppl will be on their relatives side no matter what you're going to say

2-Someone raised him to be the man he is.Of corse sometimes children are entirely different but not so often.
3-They know only what he tells them.
P.S.Do you have any friends here?Someone to listen to you and help you?
OP champchamp 1 | 21
5 Dec 2012 #24
Yea I guess I gathered some infos but it isnt easy ^_^ especially if get a lawyer that wont charge me. They entertain me but they arent that enthusiastic. Even in the police station :) heh proceedings are too slow but fine i cant really do so much esp now that it's getting very cold and I have to travel hours for hours around Warsaw with a heavy bump. I was really hoping we'd just sign a paper in the notary. really.... damn it I just cant take anymore what's happening.It's so depressing
Lenka 3 | 1,514
5 Dec 2012 #25
I was really hoping we'd just sign a paper in the notary. really....

Have you ever played this scenario with him:
You announce in elegant manner that you're going to keep the child (no negotiations here,no I will send the child to my mother and so on) and that you expect him to pay child support and that if he's not willing you're going to court.Here you end it and just wait for his decision.Without another word,without arguing if he's yelling at you just "Ok.If that's what you choose"?

I'm just asking.Maybe you already did it but maybe that's an approach you haven't try.

.It's so depressing

Yes.it is but I think you are stronger than this.Keep on no matter what he throws at you.
P.S.(edited) Don't pay attention to call1n.He's here just to mess with us.Look at his posts and you're going to know it all.

call1n
That's low even for you.You can do whatever you want in other threads that are dealing with worldview but this is serious thread.Back off.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
5 Dec 2012 #26
I'm just asking.Maybe you already did it but maybe that's an approach you haven't try.

Hi Lenka,

I did. He told me i would hate what would happen if we were in the court. Honestly I guess I already did everything I could. Thanks for the support.

He he! It's OK don't worry about call1n.
Lenka 3 | 1,514
5 Dec 2012 #27
I hope it turns out well.Keep us posted.I would really like to see the end of this case.
OP champchamp 1 | 21
5 Dec 2012 #28
:) Thanks! I really don't know how it ends.But I really hope it will end in a positive way. I hate to fight against him. Probably there's something wrong with him in the head which I could not blame but if there is something wrong with him then why does he accept his other children and he cant accept ours. Sometimes life is cruel

he found out i made a complaint now he said he wants an amicable solution coz he said he can lose his job :) hmm but he said if i take him to court it can be bad for him and for me as well. i dont know how it can be bad for me coz i did not do anything cruel against him but we'll never know....he had been calling all night and sending sms begging to talk to me. how fast was that? o.o) but he's guna play the game again i know
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
6 Dec 2012 #29
Good work champ champ. This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. Keep strong.
Lenka 3 | 1,514
6 Dec 2012 #30
he found out i made a complaint now he said he wants an amicable solution coz he said he can lose his job :)

I think he just got scared because he knows you're probably win and I don't think the judge will be nice to him.

From bastard he became poor puppy that only wants peace in the world.Don't go for that.Every time he's sweet or talks about consequences just remember how he behaved earlier.

i dont know how it can be bad for me coz i did not do anything cruel against him

Exactly.

he had been calling all night and sending sms begging to talk to me. how fast was that? o.o) but he's guna play the game again i know

Just be strong.He knows that he crossed the line and now he's scared.
I'm so proud of you!I wish I could give you my strength (since I don't love him I have all the strength in the world :)).Just..good luck and as always keep us posted.


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