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The Polish school? What's it like.


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Dec 2010 #1
Does it educate in terms of scholastic subejcts or also build characters, shape attitudes and good citizenship? Has this been changing over the years? In your view, that percentage of young people's personality building can be ascribed to the school, the home, the church, peer circles, the media, etc.?

In the USA schools seem to be evolving in the direction of the old sitcom Beverly Hills 1348 (or some such number), where the school is a place the make dates, stock up on drugs and smash up expensive sports cars with the educational aspect a definite also-ran. That's in good neighbourhoods. In bad ones it is armed security guards and metal detectors designed to weed out knives and guns.
zetigrek
4 Dec 2010 #2
Does it educate in terms of scholastic subejcts

yes.

also build characters

absolutely NO.

shape attitudes and good citizenship

no, teachers says it's parents task. Parents don't like when teachers teach their kids how to behave.

In your view, that percentage of young people's personality building can be ascribed to the school,

Huge % but it's the peers influence not teachers

the church

Little teens believe in God. The next generation is highly atheistic.

the media

Stereotype says that huge, but the truth is that much smaller than people thinks.
MrBubbles 10 | 614
4 Dec 2010 #3
Poland has the highest percentage of students getting to tertiary education in Europe and the lowest per capita spending. What do you reckon?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,883
4 Dec 2010 #4
It creates a situation where vast amounts of peope have "papers" but very little skill or ability for the real world.

Polish education is a mess, and needs total reform to make it relevant for Europe. It doesn't help when full time teachers work as little as 18 45-minute classes a week.
zetigrek
4 Dec 2010 #5
It doesn't help when full time teachers work as little as 18 45-minute classes a week.

what do you mean?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Dec 2010 #6
Yes, but work does not end at school. Teachers have papers to correct, lessons to plan, parents to meet, teachers' conferences to attend, etc.
On a different score, seems everyone is passing the child-rearing buck. Parents say: school will straighten him out (of a misbehaving kid). Teachers say it's the parents' job to rear the youngster. When there was conscription Polish parents said of an unruly teenager: the army will straighten him out... Everybody seems to be hoping someone else will do the straightening.....
zetigrek
4 Dec 2010 #7
Polonius3

you'd be shocked to see how kids in Poland behave now... but it's mostly a fault of the przydział rejonowy do szkół (hehe just like in the USA!). Of course kid can change school freely but everywhere he will go he will find that 1/3 of school is menelstwo

(sorry for Polish worlds, I'm lacking of equivalents)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Dec 2010 #8
Menelstwo = underclass, crudballs, slummies, juvenile delinquents, scum, riffraff and a slew of others.
zetigrek
4 Dec 2010 #9
how about przydział rejonowy?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Dec 2010 #10
Maybe districting.
bydgoszczanin - | 14
5 Dec 2010 #11
school is a place the make dates, stock up on drugs and smash up expensive sports cars with the educational aspect a definite also-ran. That's in good neighbourhoods. In bad ones it is armed security guards and metal detectors designed to weed out knives and guns.

Wow, I've never heard about it in my city. I went to gymnasium with bad reputation, but never saw security or guns. Bad boys sometimes after school went to nearby park to smoke ciggaretts and take drugs, but still, they were rather 'discovering new worlds' than taking hard drugs.
MrBubbles 10 | 614
5 Dec 2010 #12
a situation where vast amounts of peope have "papers" but very little skill or ability for the real world.

Not to mention that they do something like 12 different subjects at high school. They get to university without any real depth of knowledge - the content is all memorised from lessons for exams, most of which of course is promptly forgotten.

Teachers have papers to correct, lessons to plan, parents to meet, teachers' conferences to attend, etc

The teachers I know do very little planning and I know for sure there isn't the same level of pastoral care / professional development required in the UK. If they are so busy, how come they find time to do private classes?
mafketis 23 | 7,799
5 Dec 2010 #13
It creates a situation where vast amounts of peope have "papers" but very little skill or ability for the real world.

As opposed to non-elite English schools which produces people seem to lack both (AFAICT).

Polish education is a mess, and needs total reform to make it relevant for Europe.

I'd say many of the current problems stem from attempts to 'make it relevant to Europe' and letting the snowflakes express themselves instead of working at learning things.
1jola 14 | 1,879
5 Dec 2010 #14
Not to mention that they do something like 12 different subjects at high school.

When I was a kid in Poland I had chemistry, physics, botany, zoology, and biology in primary school. Then I went to the U.S. where I jumped a grade and had SCIENCE.

It creates a situation where vast amounts of peope have "papers" but very little skill or ability for the real world.

Apparently your "paper" didn't prepare you for much. Teaching English to foreigners is what most backpackers can do also, and do.
zetigrek
5 Dec 2010 #15
I'd say many of the current problems stem from attempts to 'make it relevant to Europe' and letting the snowflakes express themselves instead of working at learning things.

Yes, Polish pupils got poor scores in the international competency tests in literacy. That's why on Nowa Matura you can get half points just because you can READ... I feel that something must be really wrong with those international tests which are to compare level of education among countries.

botany

Now kids don't know how Buk's leaf look like (including me, hehe...)
mafketis 23 | 7,799
5 Dec 2010 #16
I remember reading an analysis of Polish literacy some years ago in wyborcza. Once past the headline hysteria (Poles are illiterate!) there was nothing very shocking. AFAICR the scores on different kinds of texts were mostly around European averages but Poles scored _very_ low when it came to understanding written instructions.

This should surprise no one who's worked in a Polish environment.

Back to schools. Some dirty little secrets of education:

- teaching is mostly easy, learning is hard,

- teachers can't learn for children, the children have to put in the work themselves,

- if the parents don't stress working hard in school, the kids won't,

- if the parents don't respect teachers the kids won't,

- if the kids don't respect the teachers or work very hard they mostly won't learn very much

The problems with Polish education in the past were:

Too much tracking too early - a lot of smart but undisciplined or unfocused kids (and smart and unfocused very often go together in kids) got put into the vocational track while some average but obedient children got put into the more academic track. Once put in a track it was very hard to break out (upwards at least).

Too much emphasis on memorization for memorization's sake. Memorization is good tool for some tasks and a handicap in others.

Finally, there's no such thing as a good school outside the context of the culture it appears in, what works in Britain won't necessarily work in Germany and neither will necessarily work in Poland (or vice versa). Any reforms of education have to take place within a framework of traditional cultural values.
zetigrek
5 Dec 2010 #17
Poles scored _very_ low when it came to understanding written instructions.

That's because we like to think too much and looking for a catch... ;)
convex 20 | 3,978
5 Dec 2010 #18
Any reforms of education have to take place within a framework of traditional cultural values.

A good start would be to undo all reforms since 1989.
zetigrek
5 Dec 2010 #19
Back to schools. Some dirty little secrets of education:

one more secret:

- school is not for teaching biology/chemistry/physics/geography etc. School is to teach you learning abilities.

How many times I heard from my peers "why do we have to learn this?!", "I don't need this to know, I can look it in encyclopedia when if I need it some day", "I won't learn maths, I'm a humanistic mind and I don't need math for my college aplication" etc.

Oh please people, competence means that you should learn EVERYTHING you are obliged to, not only the chosen subjects you think you will need (actually by chosen subjects we should recognize literally nothing as kids usually don't learn anything but looking for excuses).

Now when I'm 20-something I think to myself that there was so many nice things to learn at school and school was great opportunity to discover the world which I unfortunately did not use...

And even knowing such unuseful information that Brasil is the biggest breeder of cattle, which undoubtly is not a kind of knowledge which let me earn any money, I still can be proud to know why the hell they cut their Rain Forests so eagerly! ;)

Something to summarize the situation (a polish comedy show):
youtube.com/watch?v=DWuM9s4_wN4
delphiandomine 83 | 17,883
5 Dec 2010 #20
How many times I heard from my peers "why do we have to learn this?!", "I don't need this to know, I can look it in encyclopedia when if I need it some day", "I won't learn maths, I'm a humanistic mind and I don't need math for my college aplication" etc.

The best solution for this would be to simply have two tiers of classes - one compulsory "practical" class and an optional theoretical class. I loved practical science, but hated the theory - and I think decent practical classes would encourage people to engage with the subjects, even if they hated it. Then - to ensure that everyone has enough hours in school, you just have to insist on a minimum number of theoretical classes.
MrBubbles 10 | 614
5 Dec 2010 #21
When I was a kid in Poland I had chemistry, physics, botany, zoology, and biology in primary school

Well done! I'm sure you were exemplary in all of them.
mochadot18 14 | 241
6 Aug 2013 #22
UMMM out of over 55.5 Million students. Not even 4%. So yes not many at all.
pawian 163 | 10,370
6 Aug 2013 #23
US 4% compared to nearly 0% in Poland is a substantial difference.

Only Ghetto city school have those, most dont,

A few dozen US ghetto schools (about 10% of all) with metal detectors compared to zero in Poland is a substantial difference.

Have you been to schools in the US????

Have you ever watched Class of 1999???? :):):) How gang students fight their cyborg teachers???? :):):) I watched it in NYC in 1990. Quite amusing rendering of US school reality in the future..... which is now.......:):) I mean gangs and metal detectors, not cyborgs, of course..... :):):)
mochadot18 14 | 241
7 Aug 2013 #24
Cyborgs LOL, but NO I have not watched it nor have I ever heard of it at all, but just saying its not a standard for American schools to have metal detectors, and like what Polish schools have no gangs???? I can't even find any stats on Polish school except for universities so its kinda hard to compare so things but still I'm sure Polish schools have gangs in the crappier parts of the country. But I know where I grew up we do not have gangs nor do we have metal detectors just saying its not all of America.
pawian 163 | 10,370
7 Aug 2013 #25
Of course not. I never claimed that. I only pointed to the fact that American 10% compared to 0% in Poland is a big difference.
Malone
8 Aug 2013 #26
I'm sure Polish schools have gangs

i am pretty sure there are gangs, but im also pretty sure they don't carry the amount and kind of guns that american so much like.


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