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Have many Poles had enough of one another?


OP Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #91
Self righteous, what does that mean?

DE, spend some time here and then you can comment.
pip 10 | 1,659
17 Aug 2011 #92
maybe you could clarify then what you actually think the situation is. because the way I see it- if you don't like your job then find another. and there are others. there are loads in fact- depending where you live.

however, if there are not jobs--all the more reason to be good at the one you have instead of spreading the dreariness because there will be somebody waiting in the wings to take over.

clearly somebody with no education is not going to be a dr. They will be doing a service industry job.
Wroclaw Boy
17 Aug 2011 #93
because the way I see it- if you don't like your job then find another. and there are others. there are loads in fact- depending where you live.

Excuse me why i fall off my chair laughing.

clearly somebody with no education is not going to be a dr. They will be doing a service industry job.

Ahh its the Canadian snob and her economic husband again....
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Aug 2011 #94
Kids? Kids?! What are you talking about?! Kids don't have families to support, they earn money for chewing gum!

Actually - in the UK - many children are expected to earn their own money. It's quite normal to see even 14 year olds working part time, with parents taking some 'rent' money off them too. It's not like Poland where the mere thought of a child doing anything before 18 arouses horror in the general public.

How many years ago? if you say 5 then I say that 5-6 years ago 3PLN per hour was a standard.

Happens today. Minimum wage for a 16 year old is about 15PLN an hour - however -

Apprentices under the age of 19 are entitled to £2.50 an hour. Apprentices who are 19 or over during the first 12 months of their apprenticeship are entitled to the same amount.

2.50 an hour - or 11.80zl an hour. For a full time job, usually physical in nature.

Minimum wage in Poland works out about 8.66zl an hour. So - not exactly much less.

name them!

Endless EU-funded courses in Poznan alone at the weekends - all free. Big companies have their own training programmes - McDonalds is renowned for offering a great career if the worker wants it - the area/regional managers are normally promoted from restaurants. Tesco, Auchan, Carrefour, etc all offer the same. But as I said - it involves extra work over and beyond the standard 40 hours - and many of them simply don't want it.

What?! Do you think that those people work only 7 hours a day and free sundays?! You live in different world, aren't you?

The average shop worker only works 40 hours - why the hell would they pay overtime when they can just get another worker?

Truth be it - the vast majority of people working in shops are there because they choose to be there.

What if you can't find another job for various reasons?

It's a problem all over the world - usually caused because employers know fine well that someone at the age of 50 is likely to be looking for something "better" and will leave suddenly should they be offered it - or they may be stuck in their ways and unwilling to change. It's not unique to Poland - the UK has the same sort of problem.

One big problem, not just in Poland, is when you see someone that was self employed for years returning to the job market - they're all but unemployable.
plgrl
17 Aug 2011 #95
if you don't like your job then find another

What if you can't find another job for various reasons? A good example is being over 50. A person over 50 even with higher education have problems to find a decent job because of age. When I was searching through rthe Internet to find a job for such person, everyone I contacted wanted a person younger than 45, there was one single announcement which the upper limit for age was 50... but it doesn't help since the person I was looking job for was over 50.
pip 10 | 1,659
17 Aug 2011 #96
I am not a snob. In fact I am the opposite- but you don't know me so how would you know. As for the economic husband, time and time again the only person that brings this up is you.

where do you live again? Oh that is right. England.

There are loads of service industry, entry level jobs in Poland- in the cities and larger towns. When was the last time you drove through Poland? Do you know that in most smaller towns they are building Biedronkas like wild fire. And Lidl and Polo market and mini tesco and mini carrefour.

What if you can't find another job for various reasons? A good example is being over 50. A person over 50 even with higher education have problems to find a decent job because of age. When I was searching through rthe Internet to find a job for such person, everyone I contacted wanted a person younger than 45, there was one single announcement which the upper limit for age was 50... but it doesn't help since the person I was looking job for was over 50.

you are talking about the exception- not the rule. In Warsaw, this age group usually does security for osiedle's. Older women often work as cashiers.

If worse comes to worse- work as a cleaning lady.

my Ukrainian cleaning lady has been living in Warsaw for 8 years. She left an alcoholic husband that beat her. She has been living for most of this time in a room with 4 other people. 3 beds, 2 per bed- she was lucky she had her own bed. no hot water and no kitchen. i have been to this place. we give her our kids outgrown clothes for her to send back to her family in Ukraine.

She just got her own apartment. she is thrilled because it has hot water and a washing machine. she used to bring her laundry to my house.

she works every day and makes about 120 pln per day. not bad, eh. the most of this she sends back to the Ukraine. next month her daughter is coming to live and go to school.

my point is- there are jobs in Poland if you are willing to work.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Aug 2011 #97
There are loads of service industry, entry level jobs in Poland- in the cities and larger towns.

At least for Lidl, Aldi and Biedronka - they offer very good career paths to people willing to work. They absolutely drive employees into the ground, but anyone willing to put the effort in can progress quickly.

I know one of the directors for Biedronka - and he told me that they offer total training for anyone with potential within the shops - but it does involve a lot of commitment and effort. I doubt the average sexist Polish moustache would ever let his wife away for weeks at a time to train. That is the real problem, not the workplace.

(I'm not surprised that someone would be bitter and angry if they're expected to work and maintain the home, while the lazy moustache husband works his 40 hours a week for some public company and refuses to lift a finger at home)
pip 10 | 1,659
17 Aug 2011 #98
At least for Lidl, Aldi and Biedronka - they offer very good career paths to people willing to work. They absolutely drive employees into the ground, but anyone willing to put the effort in can progress quickly.

exactly. and they are popping up everywhere. they cater to the smaller communities.
plgrl
17 Aug 2011 #99
It's quite normal to see even 14 year olds working part time, with parents taking some 'rent' money off them too.

I wish in Poland the lawmakers encourage more the employees to employ people below 18. When I was 15 I had ambitions to earn my own money but there was little things a 15 year old could do.

Endless EU-funded courses in Poznan alone at the weekends - all free.

Let me guess! All those courses are useless basic computer courses or how to prepare a cv? Or are there any substancial courses which actually teach a proffesion?

career if the worker wants it

Why children are threatened that if they won't study hard they will end up being a teller in a hipermarket if it's such a good job full of opportunities?

Why people strike if it's such a good job?
mafketis 34 | 11,606
17 Aug 2011 #100
delphiandomine wrote:

At least for Lidl, Aldi and Biedronka - they offer very good career paths to people willing to work.

I think a lot also depends on the particular store's manager, I generally like Lidl but the one closest to me is .... not so good.

Do they have a promote from within policy? If I were a younger person without office work pretensions I'd try to get hired at a chain with a promote from within policy. The work (as work) is not necessarily so rewarding but you can leave it behind when you're not there.
plgrl
17 Aug 2011 #101
In Warsaw, this age group usually does security for osiedle's.

EXACTLY!
pip 10 | 1,659
17 Aug 2011 #102
In Warsaw, this age group usually does security for osiedle's.

EXACTLY!

yes, but again this is the exception and not the rule. A person in their 50's with a higher education is not usually looking for a job- they have been working their jobs for a while and are now hoping for retirement.

This problem is from communism. That generation got left behind- they should be thinking about retiring but unfortunately the gov't doesn't give pensioners enough.

my mother and her husband have been retired since 55. They were both in the military in Canada which really takes care of its people.

It really breaks my heart when people of this age still have to worry about work. They should be worrying what to do with their grandchildren.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
17 Aug 2011 #103
Self righteous, what does that mean?

Let me represent an example of a statement by you that shows your self righteousness

I am one of the last people in the world to be materialistic. In fact, I have actively spoken out against it.

Anyone, from anywhere in the world, can see that this claim, to be one of the least materialistic people in the world, is a statement coming from a sickeningly self righteous person.

DE, spend some time here and then you can comment.

No Seanus I can comment regardless of where I have spent my time because this is a public discussion forum and you are not the boss of it. Stop teling people what they can and cannot do and you won't seem so presumptuous and ill-mannered.
plgrl
17 Aug 2011 #104
A person in their 50's with a higher education is not usually looking for a job- they have been working their jobs for a while and are now hoping for retirement.

Why not? It happens and more often than you think...

They were both in the military in Canada which really takes care of its people.

It's nothing unusual. Military, police they all get retired early even in Poland.
southern 75 | 7,096
17 Aug 2011 #105
I doubt the average sexist Polish moustache would ever let his wife away for weeks at a time to train.

It depends on what the training consists of.
OP Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #106
I am far from being materialistic, DE. What fault do you find in this fact? It's not self righteous at all.

Oh, you are free to comment but based on what experience? You are having hacks at me yet you don't know the reality on the street here, do you?

If you think I dislike Poles then you are very wrong indeed. They treat me well
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Aug 2011 #107
I wish in Poland the lawmakers encourage more the employees to employ people below 18. When I was 15 I had ambitions to earn my own money but there was little things a 15 year old could do.

Yeah, it's a disaster - the whole attitude of "OMG A CHILD CANT WORK" in Poland really hurts young people - especially as they then get to school-leaving age without anything in the way of proper experience. Would it really hurt if a 16 year old worked part time in a shop? It just strikes me as a good way to keep the unemployment number down, nothing else.

Or are there any substancial courses which actually teach a proffesion?

There's some - there's one which offers a proper BA in Hotel Management, for instance.

Why children are threatened that if they won't study hard they will end up being a teller in a hipermarket if it's such a good job full of opportunities?

That's because Poland still hasn't really understood the concept of "promoted from within" - look at how many people during Communism walked into nice jobs because they were "well connected" and not because they had actually worked their way there.

Why people strike if it's such a good job?

In the case of Carrefour, they were manipulated into striking by Solidarność - it was pretty obvious that the whole thing was orchestrated from outside.

Do they have a promote from within policy? If I were a younger person without office work pretensions I'd try to get hired at a chain with a promote from within policy. The work (as work) is not necessarily so rewarding but you can leave it behind when you're not there.

All three of them definitely do - it's what makes them an attractive place for someone willing to work very, very hard for good rewards.

No Seanus I can comment regardless of where I have spent my time because this is a public discussion forum and you are not the boss of it. Stop teling people what they can and cannot do and you won't seem so presumptuous and ill-mannered.

So, Des - when are you going to offer us an in-depth critique of the differences in service between small village shops and city supermarkets? We're eagerly waiting your expert knowledge about Poland...

Ah..wait..you've never been here, so you really aren't able to comment. Surprise, surprise.
plgrl
17 Aug 2011 #108
Seanus
Des Essientes

Please stop, it's pointless.
OP Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #109
It's my thread and he's trying to hijack it. He has nothing to add so he should leave.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
17 Aug 2011 #110
Seanus, this thread's title and OP posit that there is a social phenomenon in Poland driven by people having "had enough of one another" that may even be driving Poles to emigrate in the large numbers in which they do. I am not in Poland but this seems like a borderline paranoiac theory to me. I shan't offer anymore objections and I leave the thread to those who want to relate their stories about the hate, or mutual disdain, in the air in Poland as gleaned from their shopping excursions there, as well as those who just want to cackle like hens about the merits of various super-markets checkout aisles.
OP Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #111
Emigration is your tag-on, DE. I don't want to put words in mouths like that. It's about dissatisfaction and complaining, sth the Poles self-admittedly claim to know a lot about. Before you start at me, many Scots are that way too. People are free to answer, 'no, they aren't' and give their stories, DE. The thread is open in that it touches on interaction, teamwork and getting things done. If you see it as being designed to attract hatred then you have missed the point completely.
OP Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #113
Borderline paranoid? Really? Why? Do you expect paradise on Earth here? Some form of utopia? This thread, if people started thinking broadly, would attract a lot of stories.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
17 Aug 2011 #114
It really breaks my heart when people of this age still have to worry about work. They should be worrying what to do with their grandchildren.

Wow! Things are really that great in the Great White North?:) I'm turning 55 soon and I expect to work another 20 years.
pip 10 | 1,659
17 Aug 2011 #115
55 is the typical age of retirement in Canada. We are a semi socialist country that seems to take care of its people. My mother and her husband were in the military right out of high school. They worked their way up in the ranks and were able to retire at 55. This is quite typical of military in Canada- they offer a lot of benefits that allow people to save money.

My dad, who was also in the military, died (at 46) when I was 21. Because my parents were divorced and my dad was the primary care giver- I received orphan benefits and part of his pension which helped to get my life in order.
f stop 25 | 2,513
17 Aug 2011 #116
Anyone, from anywhere in the world, can see that this claim, to be one of the least materialistic people in the world, is a statement coming from a sickeningly self righteous person.

Des, I think the knowledge of these 12 commandments will take you up to the next level. You're almost there:

netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/88q1/13785.8.html
wielki pan 2 | 250
18 Aug 2011 #117
You will be suspended for provocation and leading the thread off-topic. By all means learn but stay away from threads you can't contribute to.

Nasty!!!!... hmmm Seanus Poland is beautiful and now you try to throw mud!... Listen I'm sure if you walk around the streets of other poor countries you will have the same experience... You my friend are pretty well off, compared to other people in your town...I must disagree and say you live in a small town... 100,000 people is ttha big... and further relax polish people are good company.
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Aug 2011 #118
In reality one has almost no opportunities if he doesn't carry a family's name known in the sector.In fact I would say a non connected by blood person is a natural enemy of the system and is treated as such.

This is one of the causes of current crisis massive indifference of competent people for the fate of the connected offsprings.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
18 Aug 2011 #119
You my friend are pretty well off, compared to other people in your town

Well off in Poland means having a house, driving an SUV, etc etc.

I suppose you're just another one of those EU passport hunters who only discovered your Polish roots in 2004.

100,000 people is ttha big...

In Poland, yes.
OP Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Aug 2011 #120
Throwing mud? It's not about throwing mud, it's about everyday reality not always being painted as paradise. I really can't get over the level of defensiveness here. It's on a different scale altogether.

Is it really hard to comment on the thread rather than pointing an accusatory finger at me?


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