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Thoughts on pro vs cons when moving to Poland from New Zealand with Polish wife and daughter. Living cost.


Flannel 1 | 1
9 Nov 2017  #1
Hi,

I think im in throws of a mid life crisis :). We are currently residing in New Zealand (im Kiwi) my wife is polish and we have a 4yr old daughter. Iam exploring the idea of moving to Poland mainly due to NZ becoming rather unaffordable at present for future generations and current ones for that matter, we have had a property boom that has seen my house go up 125% in 8yrs, great for me, but my daughter will never own her own home now, average is $1m+ ($700000 US). cost of living is increasing and wages are not (world story I guess).

So im looking at cashing in and having a complete life change. We would be starting out with about 1.5m zloty and looking in Krakow or opole regions , I would be looking at buying the family home plus maybe another house or decent flat as a rental, would this provide a decent base income? My wife is a teacher and would go back to this for the interim as well. What sort of income would give us a comfortable life (I know that's a subjective question) with trips back to NZ every 18months or so, family holidays and good schooling ect...I don't except to live like The Queen of England but a decent lifestyle. I will get a job/open business asap but my polish is very poor so until then I cant be counted on (atleast 1yr maybe more).

Is being mortgage free such a big deal in Poland or rents are cheap enough that's its not really an issue and I would be better of investing in a business /shares ect?

Thanks for reading
polishinvestor 1 | 362
9 Nov 2017  #2
You may want to think about a house just outside of a major city while leaving a bit more cash free in buying your business interest in the centre. Flats can yield around 4-5% if talking major cities while with commercial you can get 5-10% depending on the location and which city. The bigger the city and the better the location, the lower the yield but you can find nice 7-9% in Wroclaw so I would assume Krakow is similar. I always say 10k a month to spend for a family of 4 is enough to pay the bills put petrol in the car and not to look at prices of things although on that money don't expect to have much saved by the end of the year. Yes you can survive on less than half that but thats what you'd be doing, surviving rather than living.
cms 9 | 1,272
10 Nov 2017  #3
Try before your buy is my advice - see if you can have an extended holiday, see how you deal with the weather and what are the costs and possibilities of work. Unless you have an in demand skill then getting work will not be easy. learning Polish well in one year is a big challenge too.

Reason is that 1.5m zloty will be a lot but by the time you bought your house you would be lucky to get 50.000 a year from the rest of the invested money. So you need to add that to your wife's earnings and see if it would give you them same standard of living as you have in NZ.
Atch 17 | 2,711
10 Nov 2017  #4
Agree with CMS. You should ideally rent something for a year or so in the area you think you'd like to live in permanently and then make a final decision. Also when deciding where in Poland to settle (I imagine it would be near your wife's family) consider the location in terms of your daughter's future and any other children you may subsequently have. Would it be necessary for your daughter to leave home to go to college and what are job opportunities like for her after graduation. It's just that sometimes people fall in love with the idea of country living or small town/village life, which is lovely when you have young children but can become difficult when they're teenagers and beyond.

Is being mortgage free such a big deal in Poland or rents are cheap enough that's its not really an issue and I would be better of investing in a business /shares ect?

Do you mean that instead of buying a family home, you would rent and invest the bulk of your capital in a business? I wouldn't risk that. Definitely not. Being mortgage free is always a big deal.
OP Flannel 1 | 1
11 Nov 2017  #5
Thank you very much for the comments, a lot of good advice and I appreciate it. I have been to Poland a few times and have lived there 15yrs ago on a extended holiday (6-7 month) but I realize that that was a while ago and things have changed, point being its not a total unknown for me.

I just want to have a reliable base income (all be it modest) and with my wife working, what ever I earn pays for those luxuries I talked about earlier. I am leaning toward opole region manly because of my wife (you are right) but at least I have a connection with that place unlike the bigger cities, I live in a big city now and im mentally done with traffic.

After how long are you entitled to government benefits ie: pension (when time comes) health care, education etc. I have dual passports NZ & British passport but with Briton leaving the EU things may change some what.

Thanks again
polishinvestor 1 | 362
11 Nov 2017  #6
If you want to live in Opole, that leaves Wroclaw as the nearest major investable city, with Krakow being further away. With residential investments, you will need to tend to your assets more often, so even the 100km to Wroclaw will become a burden. Commercial less so (some I visit once every 6 months), so that's something to consider as well. Some time ago when I was involved in residential property in the dolnyslask region, I had flats here there and everywhere and the travel costs were a big problem. Since then I am concentrated in Wroclaw and commercial only, while living about half an hour away.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
11 Nov 2017  #7
another house or decent flat as a rental, would this provide a decent base income?

How much you expect from one home in Poland? Better buy home in London and live in small flat in Poland.

My wife is a teacher and would go back to this

Teacher is not a dentist.

but my polish is very poor

Do you expect a sharp improvement when in Poland?

Think why we leave comfortable homes, flats, cars, gardens, lakes, forests and decide to live in London? For income. Income is crucial. Not a cheap country.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
11 Nov 2017  #8
Better buy home in London and live in small flat in Poland.

Yields in London are still very compressed despite some home price weakness, you are lucky to clear 3 or 4% especially now that section 24 mortgage relief is disappearing. And with brexit around the corner, London prices are going to be hit the worst since they have run up the most. Its a risky time to enter the London market, although sterling is probably nearer the bottom than the top (still leaves 15-20% currency downside from here). Better the let brexit play out and then enter that market.
Atch 17 | 2,711
11 Nov 2017  #9
with my wife working, what ever I earn pays for those luxuries

Teachers' salaries in Poland are amongst the lowest in Europe. It's not likely that her earnings alone will support the household. I mean you'll be rent free but there's utilities, food, costs of running at least one car, clothes, medical and dental expenses, that's the very minimum. Then add on a few common treats like going to the cinema, concert, theatre, eating out occasionally, gym, maybe activities for your daughter, music lessons, sports, girl scouts, etc and you're going to have to start dipping into your 'luxuries' budget. Have you checked out the exact salary your wife could earn?


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