The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Life  % width posts: 21

School and stadium violence in Poland?


Polonius3 994 | 12,367
16 Sep 2010 #1
News reports have indicated a growth of both classroom and stadium violence in Poland over the past 2 decades of independence. What do you think are the root causes? If it is just aping the West, then who started it in the West? Was a time when both in communist Poland and the capitalist West a dad could take his young sons, even his entire family (if the missus tolerated footie or was even a fan) to a match without worrying for their safety. When did that change? Why?
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
16 Sep 2010 #2
There is no Milicja Obywatelska anymore. In the PRL you knew what the consequence would be.

You can find a lot of this in, for example, Russia and Brazil (and many other Southern American countries) as well. You can't blame Western Europe for this. It's a global phenomena.

The main problem is that the football violence is not limited to the stadium. You can find it in many other places as well. And it affects people who have no connection to football. It's has grown to a strong subculture.
Ironside 53 | 12,411
16 Sep 2010 #3
Globalisation means that society is divided into two classes. Ruling class, with money, privet tutors, servants and bodyguards and all the rest:)as the lower class- plebs.

It doesn't seems that way because society is in the middle of transition.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
16 Sep 2010 #4
World poverty is falling. From 1970 to 2006, poverty fell by 86% in South Asia, 73% in Latin America, 39% in the Middle East, and 20% in Africa.

However, it's still a huge problem in the world.
Ironside 53 | 12,411
16 Sep 2010 #5
World poverty is falling

poverty has nothing to do with it!
jwojcie 2 | 762
16 Sep 2010 #6
There is no Milicja Obywatelska anymore. In the PRL you knew what the consequence would be.

I was going to wrote the same. During a communist era one thing that was working was a terror machinery of a State. So if someone crossed a line and didn't have connections then he/she was f..cked... There was no other organized crime than state back then. Then 90' came which in the begining was an implosion of the state including security forces. In last years they started to recover some authority, people started to trust in their abilities again, but still in to many cases people just don't go to the police believing that it is not worth it.

It has not much to do with "western values" but much to do with rebuilding the state after communism implosion. Besides, for Poland "western" means for much part West Germany. What I heard and saw is rather quite an ordered society...
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
16 Sep 2010 #7
Poland was never one for 'aping' the Third World, so I doubt if Brazil or Pakistan have made any impact on Poland's copycat popculture.

BTW, I had orginally intended to mention only school violence and threw in the stadium business as an afterthought. In your mind, does classroom unruliness and school violence in general have the same roots as stadium hooliganism?
nott 3 | 594
16 Sep 2010 #8
I'd say no. School violence results from the new, humane approach to pupils.

Well, there's no MO in the stadiums either, as somebody already pointed out...
Ironside 53 | 12,411
16 Sep 2010 #9
problem with a street or stadium violence is a very simple to solve,
nott 3 | 594
16 Sep 2010 #10
I'm not syre. There's a problem with Polish police now, bad memories, the tradition of corruption and unjustified violence. Seems it needs time.
Harry
16 Sep 2010 #11
School violence results from the new, humane approach to pupils.

It is odd that since teachers have lost the right to wallop students students have become so much more violent.
nott 3 | 594
16 Sep 2010 #12
I wouldn't call it that strange.

They said kids are barbarians and need to be civilised. Some apparently barbaric ways seem to work for them. In my times it wasn't unusual to get a series of painful whacks on the palm with a wooden ruler. Drives the message in.

Nowadays teachers can just appeal and explain, and that in a restricted tone of voice. A teenager can successfully complain about being abused if a teacher shouts at him, whatever the misdemeanor.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,379
16 Sep 2010 #13
nowadays, in Poland, teachers give a mark/grade for behaviour. if the pupil gets a one he/she doesn't go to the next class/form.

when i was a lad in the uk the cane didn't stop me going to the next class/form.
nott 3 | 594
16 Sep 2010 #14
or the teacher goes to see the headmaster, and the grade is being revised.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
16 Sep 2010 #15
Isn't it a bit neo-Marxist, crypto-Marxist or pseudo-Marxist to attribute everything to economics? Poverty, unemployment, low pay, etc. are nothing new and come in go in cyclical fashion, but there was almost no stadium violence anywhere in the US or Europe during the first half of the 20th century. The first major incident I believe involved an Everton match. And the blackboard jungle type school was also unknown. Interestingly both the Everton incident and the film 'Blackboard Jungle' appeared in the latter half of the 1950s when today's all-pervasive permissive pop culture first began rearing its head. Isn't family breakdown and the collapse of authorities the true root cause of society's growing violence? Before you answer, check this out:

centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/client/downloads/causes_of_crime.pdf
Ironside 53 | 12,411
18 Sep 2010 #16
Isn't it a bit neo-Marxist, crypto-Marxist or pseudo-Marxist to attribute everything to economcs? Poverty, unemployment, low pay, etc. are nothing new

Well, state becoming nanny not a state,expectations are growing, government should give this or that, fix that or other, plebs selling it votes for bread and games like in ancient Rome.
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
29 Jul 2012 #17
Merged: Classroom violence in Poland?

The Daily Mail recently reported that classroom indiscipline and violence were increasing in Britain's primary schools including attacks on teachers and classmates as well as sexual misconduct. It blamed parents for not providing kids with the social skills needed to cope at school as well as excessive access to internet prn. What is the situation like in Poland. Have the Polish media, educators, parents' groups, churchmen, etc. expressed concern over this problem?
Kowalski 7 | 621
29 Jul 2012 #18
Folks....the root causes of violence are known very well yet you and others don't want to know and accept this truth. Contrary to what some here advocate it is violence toward children, usually performed by their parents that would produce violent kids. Do you think Adolf Hitler or Stalin, Khadafi etc had bad genes? No! Their childhood was a nightmare , well documented now.

Why are so few people who THINK and FEEL are not outraged openly when millions or children are beaten daily. It surely is a crime and not approved to beat a grown up but you can beat a child without outrage. Pope would ask for mercy for Sadam yet would never utter a word toward catholics to stop beating children.

Anyway as you don't know and don't want to know your OWN history you are likely to not accept the truth ...
And for those who think they were beaten and turned out ok: you may as well turned out to be violent toward others or yourself - no kidding.
isthatu2 4 | 2,694
29 Jul 2012 #19
The Daily Mail recently reported that classroom indiscipline and violence were increasing in Britian's primary schools including attacks on teachers and classmates as well as sexual midconduct

But this is the usual sort of twisted rubbish normally reserved for articles on Poles in the UK.
The only change is that standards have shifted and reporting methods have gone bonkers.
An *attack* on a classmate can be two boys playfighting.Its still classed as class room violence. a 4 year old boy in the play ground flipping up a little girls skirt is now classed as Sexual assault instead of kids being kids......its the same with *racist* incidents....my best mate at primary shool was born in Germany to Brit Army parents, his nickname was *nazi* , last year a little boy was accussed of racism when he asked his Polish best friend to be the germans when they played war....... another little boy is now officialy a *racist* because he asked his black friend,who was a refugee from Africa,if he was Black because he came from Africa.........back in my day that would have been handled with a simple, *yes, he is Black because he comes from Africa,but lots of black people are born in England too.......* but no, the lad is on record as a *racist* for asking an innocent question of a friend....

Bonkersness.
pawian 222 | 24,304
29 Jul 2012 #20
Bonkersness.

No, pure American-style political correctness. If it got to UK so quickly, I wonder how long it will take to get to Poland?
OP Polonius3 994 | 12,367
30 Jul 2012 #21
This thread got hijacked, because the Daily Mail article was dealing with classroom disturbances which are not the same as stadium violence. Stadiums attract a certain type of person, whilst everyone goes to school. And it turns out that the indiscipline crosses social lines. Schools in so-called 'good' neighbourhoods are also experiencing more classroom disruption. My question was: to what extent is this also a problem in Poland? Not violence in general but classroom problems.

Usually such things as lack of parental guidance, ineffective teachers, violence in the entertainment media and computer games, online prnography, etc. are cited as contributing factors..


Home / Life / School and stadium violence in Poland?