The "Rudification" Of Society - Is This Happening In Poland As Well?

Could you expand on this, please?

MareGaea, do you not think this is about people's financial difficulties like what you said


.
And as usual the mug on the street (or on the forum) blames Johnny foriegner for their woes rather than the true culprits.
Weapons of mass distraction.

Of course I think it has sth to do with it as the powers that are now on the rise generally only can rise in circumstances like this.


Ppl will be always looking for scapegoats, yes. And who are the easiest? Indeed the foreigners. The true culprits always get away anyway...Like the term weapons of mass distraction :)

But I was wondering, do we see a general trend here or is it limited to a few isolated incidents?

Sorry, I'm quite busy, so I won't be able to react directly.

>^..^<

M-G (busy)

Yes, they charge me 5 PLN for every withdrawal I make when using their machines. They impose surcharge after surcharge for handling my account. They swiped money from an account that we clearly told them that was to remain open but inactive. They said they wouldn't deduct from it. I made one switch across to that account as it was cheaper to do so and then they swiped 5 months worth of handling fees in a oner. They also offer no interest worth speaking about. I can imagine people getting ruder with such sharks. They are a bunch of bandits that only con people.

thinking people do not watch fix news and zimmy is a picture boy of the right wing stupid aka republican party
the problem is economy republicans ruin it and democrats are finishing it, tea party were answer to establishment but they been hijack by republicans hate mongers and sponsor by Koch industries

we need third party in united States that will represent middle class and working people as i see it now republicans are robing middle class to give to rich and banks and democrats robing middle class to give to poor and banks ether way we are screwed.

this situation is very similar to 1930 and i will not be surprise if so called our leader will take us to war so we will be distracted from their failure to govern as we the people.

and one more thing i am sick of congress passing law that protecting corporations, giving them special privileges i want to see some equality and give some special privileges to small businesses not tax hikes.

Depends on how bad things get.
1930s Germany came from starvation and Hitler rose to power.


It is amazing what the feckers get away with.

What makes things worse here is that I have to pay 840PLN ZUS every month. The assumption is that I am wealthy due to having my own firm. That's not the case, it was a convenience arrangement to suit Profi Lingua, my ex-employers. I kept it on as I can claim many things back through invoices. Still, the tax lowering doesn't recoup the losses.

This is too high, it's a problem.

It is indeed! I'll get a pension eventually but any hint of me having to pay for sth trivial and I'll not be best pleased. Around 560PLN of the 840 goes on health insurance. Plus, the UK has a reciprocal agreement anyway which I claimed on back in 2005. I'd be as well be dropping my notes down the drain.

Thinking people watch a variety of news programs including the extreme left wing MSNBC News and the moderately right wing Fox News. (Fox News has dissenting opinions unlike MSNBC). This way, an individual can get what I refer to as "fuller truths".


That would surprise my Libertarian friends of whom I have many. Amazing how frequently you are mistaken, isn't it?

I await the next riot caused by left wing wackos which will not be reported in most major media.

I don't think it's left or right, or middle. I think rudeness, paranoia, fear/hate of 'jiggaboos", faggots, spics, muslims, feminists etc etc is a trait of lower, less educated people. When economic times get tougher, they are poorly equipped to handle it, so they vent their frustrations on those around them, convincing themselves that if others would change, their own lives would not suck.

And media just plays it up for the lowest common denominator.

another misguided idiots, they think the corporation is good but they corporations and banks are evil just look at the news and answer this.
how many people died do to negligence of corporations to provide save working place?
not counting the environmental devastation corporations does.
so my Libertarian friend you are the one mistaken.

I think we all do.

You may think I am cynical but this left/right stuff is nonsense.
Big corporations run the show, and the masses are too busy squabbling over which party they were born in to, to notice that they are getting the scraps.

The only reason there are two parties, is to maintain the illusion of democracy.

SeanBM I could not agree with you more

True Sean, we are being lived - no room for anything outside the Corporation's interest. You see it in everything, heck, even our musical taste is determined by them.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

In Poland rudification gradually worked its way from the gutters to upper echelons of the society during communist rule.
Comparing sorry state of youngsters to ante-bellum times and its chivalry was one of the preferred pastimes of the old generation!

that is true everywhere, between every old generation and the new one.

Yes, 'rudification', as you call it, is taking place world-wide, but Poland is the best example that it need not be associated only with foreign immigrants. The down-dumbing and down-coarsening of society is largely the result of the cheap, tacky but attractive (esp. to the immature) pop culture that has snowballed over the last half-century. Its debauching MTV, violent computer games, Hollywood slimemongers and ego-tripping celebrities have convinced people that 'anything goes' (the weirder the better) and replaced authorities (family, school, church) and values with seasonal idols and passing fads. These are easier to sell and make a profit on.

In general, people of right-leaning conservative persuasion tend to be more for politeness, civility and restraint as traditonal values than many leftists and anarchists who equate rudeness, vulgarity and aggressiveness with freedom.

The Pastor who is to burn Korn is a head of 50-memeber sect, not a memeber of real christian church.

How dare he oppose the de-Dutchification of the Netherlands! The Dutch government (like several other Western European governments) have clearly elected a new people and those other, older Dutch people should just get used to it.


In American, the word 'cult' is more accurate than 'sect'.

And yeah, he's obviously a jerk and an awful human being, but assuming that he's not trying to outlaw people reading the Koran or burning other people's Korans this is a huge non-issue. He's simply disposing of his own private property in a manner he finds appropriate.

That everybody is freaked out about crazy Muslim reactions just reinforces the point he was trying to make.

Country I lived in was in many ways more humane.
Now, a giant step back.

But it doesn't look like The end of History ;)


he is funny. if somebody doesn't take that crap seriously.


Why are you wondering, it's normal for class systems. Lower middle class always fails to see the reason for it's existential problems( being previously manipulated) moving the anger and animosity to weaker ones , usually foreigners, minorities...Hence the success of characters like Wilders.


I think that that is so basic in our nature, and maybe the most important criteria for gathering and grouping of ppl. Even here.
I don't think it's really possible to put that aside. (ideal, but not probable)

Right, Natasa! Yet such a basic mistake. I have the same take on religious aspects and faith. I can see the merits of different faiths and I don't feel the need to be like Terry Jones and propose any burnings. Muslims have their faith and they shouldn't be lumped in with the radicals. Deep-rooted misunderstandings have demonic potential :( :(

It's all about "self"; narcissism. It is a move away from Christian values and a move to this so called "enlightenment" that is the problem.

Don't worry government will solve it for you whether it be an ethical issue, medical care, education (indoctrination) & energy (global warming scam). Soon we'll all be at the Keynesian endpoint.

This is a slam-dunk fact!


This jerk of a pastor is not breaking the law. He has a right to do stupid things. Of course, just because someone has a right to do something doesn't mean they should do it.

Would the reactions be the same if someone decided to burn bibles?

No, the liberals would happily supply the bibles and the gasoline.

:-)

who cares?? The idiot should not have been given any attention.
Jeez, there are people out there that defecate on each other. I don't care to consider.

I wish I could be so optimistic. Perhaps you don't live in the West and so base your opinions upon ideals rather than experience. Where I live and in many cities in the U.S. there is an enormous rise in the population of a certain middle-eastern political ideology that uses religion as it's cover. These people, AND I CAN SHOW YOU THEIR HOUSES, have no respect for those of us who live her, and instead demand that our culture capitulate to their ideals. They do not care for their properties and let their very young children have the run of the neighborhoods without any adult supervision.

Tolerance and assimilation might work were it a two-way street. However, here it is not. It is a demand to be honored without reciprocation.
Entire cities in the U.S. have been dominated and forced to comply to their politico-religious ideology. They foment the language of hate upon us and we dare say nothing in reply lest we be labeled racists.

I have a friend in France who cannot walk down the street in the city in which she was born 40 years ago without being verbally assaulted and spat upon by certain middle-eastern ethnic men who immigrated there in the last decade. Perhaps it makes you feel somehow peaceful and superior to preach your brand of tolerance, as for me it reminds me of Nazi Germany as the Brown shirts began to dominate first localities and then an entire nation.

You call it fear mongering to decry these abuses. Let me remind you that in the establishment of every historical tyranny those who spoke their fears were silenced while those who enslaved them established their reigns by diligent use of the lie.


Let me remind you that it was the IMAM in New York who threatened retaliation NOT the knee-jerk reaction of a few scared citizens.

This is actually nonsense. I am on the left of the centre and I am generally polite irl. I know plenty of other left-wingers who are very polite as well. I know also left-wingers that are not polite. I know right-wingers that are polite, but I also know right-wingers that aren't polite. You shouldn't generalise this much and glorify the right as much as you do; ppl are ppl and being polite is a matter of character, not of political orientation.


For a self-confessed Libertarian you lean quite far over to the right-hand side. There might be some truth in Marek1111's remark that you're a poster-boy for the Republicans, given the soothing way you talk about those Tea Party guys and the way you talk about the left-wingers. You may not be a poster-boy, but it's clear where your sympathies lay.


Of course the reactions would be the same - it's about the deed of book-burning, one of the lowest states humanity can reach. And that it's the Koran or any other book, including the Bible is irrelevant in this respect.

But it's definitively not gonna happen as I understand it. Guess Terry Jones was just another attention-seeker.


I always wonder where ppl like you get their information. Hearsay? Probably. But you probably also know that "hearsay" info is not really reliable as it tends to get coloured with personal sympathies or antipathies. The part that I quoted from you is just a general prejudice and doesn't happen always, if it happens at all. I know, on the other hand, plenty of girls that can walk down any street they like without being spat upon. It's actually a common myth in the anti-Muslim world: girls cannot walk over street without being harrassed. While this may happen from time to time, it's actually by far not sure if these harrassers are from Middle Eastern descent. In fact, quite some of the girls mentioned above get mostly harrassed by drunken Czechs and Poles, as they told me.

And by the way, with this post you give evidence of possessing not much respect for those ppl at all. And of course in such circumstances, fairy tales become very quickly real stories.

>^..^<

M-G (busy as hell)

I wish we had here more drunk Czechs and Poles.

what the heck do you know about the states? btw. that is not true at all.. the red states are the ones full of absurdity etc..


again, that is not true.. the righties are the ones full of rudeness... but rudeness has increased in all circles.


no, US went down the shlthole under bush2 more then anyone before him.


this is a famous rightie tactic.. don't blame the lefties except for maybe being copycats.


and when in power too.. we had to endure 8 years of that kind of lunacy..


so, you're never the first? you're only a reactionary life?


your point isn't really on topic thus moot.


you are right.. the lifers are definitely the religious right..conservatives are the ones who started the shouting down the democratic speakers. this is not really a leftist tactic.. leftist tactic is to try to talk about the issues..


correct once again


it's not laughable.. it is the case and everyone knows it.. the others may be leaning a bit left right now but definitely aren't mouthpieces of the left.


no, they don't fall flat, tis the truth


yeah, who? lol


fair they are not and they are not even close to neutral as news ought to be.. just report it, don't spin it.


no, not a bush family member.. and yes, they called bush a winner way before half the votes were even counted.. shows their bias.


yes, good people but all of them rather conservative and brainwashed in their view.


yes one republican as compared to dozens of democrats.. it's a laughable argument at best.


the economic troubles started with bush tax cuts for the rich under the repo controlled congress. funny how your memory is selectively short.


you post more and more senile nonsense.. may want to check in with your psychologist.. most capitalists are fervent rightwingers.


of course..


yes, you are right and yes it is due to the right being in power.. at least that is so in the usa. and no, i don't think that it's a mistake to bring up right/left.


lol.. that's good. :D


yes, it seems to be a trend across the board.


lol.. of course one has to watch faux newz just to keep tabs on the opposition.


yeah, i agree


lol.. that's a laugh.. faux newz is way, way to the right.. not moderate in the least.. lmao


no, he must be spot on.. that's the way i see it.


the libertarians are even worse the middle of the road repubs.. they have 0 social conscience.. 0.. the gov is only there for corporations.


true.. the left/right isn't really nonsense but they are harder and harder to distinguish between these days.


i don't agree.. but i m thinking that you are thinking of the generations of old.. however that is not true in today's world.


he really isn't/wasn't making a point.. he's just an idiot seeking attention.


no it is not the problem.. hanging on to those outdated "ideas" of Christianity is the problem, imho.


of course.


lol.. i know i would. ;)


you are a ranting lunatic if you don't post up some proof.


what are you going on about? you obviously got your info from faux newz or glen beck.


yes it is.. p3 hasn't been making much sense as of late.. i am starting to wonder if he isn't Socrates or something..


yes and no.. there seems to be a tendency of the right (here in the USA) to be less polite then the left, imho


right on.. and he is.. but like i said, the libertarians can be even more to the right then repubs sometimes.


from another like minded bigot.. i have french friends too and none say anything of that sorts plus it is a pretty well known fact that in france, people assimilate more/better then most other eu countries.


so true..

--------------------

now to the topic at hand.. i think there is definite proof that the righties are less civilized, if you will.. just look at this thread.. the first bunch of posters are all right and they attack you right away without really staying on topic.. there is all the proof you need.

and not many people really touched the polish part of the topic which actually surprised me a bit.. so here it goes.. yes, rudeness is on the rise in PL.. the evidence of that are some of the posters from PL that post here. look at sok and torq.. both are/were extremely intolerable and rude.. then of course the 30th anniversary of solidarity and the way those celebrations went down.. not so pretty.. there was a vid posted in that thread, i think, that showed that pretty clearly.. the lady's name was crookednose (translated), i think.. and she had to chastise others who were so rudely trying to silence her and of course the verbal spanking kaczynski got from her was also proof of the way things are.. she wasn't too nasty at all but what was bothersome was that she actually HAD to do it based on his behaviour.

now, i also came across this article in polish which deals exactly with what you're after.. you may want to run it through a translator to get the gist of it:

The reason for the increase in the number of crimes among youth in Poland - according to police - including lack of authority. - For many young people are no longer the authority of parents or teachers . Looking for them among their peers who are able to quickly , often in a manner inconsistent with the right to earn money , or simply use violence against others . Also lowers the age at which young people turn to alcohol , drugs or undergo sexual initiation - said Sokolowski.

Such as?