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The rising costs of food and fuel in Poland and the effects on disposable income/economy


poland_
18 Jan 2011 #91
I am surprised that those who live here (Poland) don't see it.

I have noticed that the cost of products in the supermarkets have increased well above the 1% increase in VAT as from Jan -1- 2011. I was at M & S in Warsaw yesterday for my comfort foods and noticed the prices have increased quite a lot, on some products as much as 30%. I do not believe the products are seasonal.

Milky, the thread would stand a better chance if it focused on " The rising costs of food and fuel in Poland and the effects on disposable income/economy."
OP milky 13 | 1,657
18 Jan 2011 #92
The rising costs of food and fuel in Poland and the effects on disposable income/economy."

I agree with that,for sure.
convex 20 | 3,978
18 Jan 2011 #93
I do not believe the products are seasonal.

Commodity prices will continue to rise everywhere as people start catching on to how messed up Government spending and borrowing actually is. It's very much a global problem, the only saving grace for Poland is that the inflation is countered by growth and rises in wages.
OP milky 13 | 1,657
18 Jan 2011 #94
The richest people in the Polish capital Warsaw therefore have less money at their disposal than the poorest rural district in Germany. Overall, the per capita purchasing power in all districts in Poland has increased, with the biggest rises enjoyed by people in the big cities like Warsaw (1,315 euros) and Danzig (1,238 euros).

google.pl/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Apl%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=pl&source=hp&q=disposable+income+europe..the+riches+in+warsaw+have+the+poorest+germany&lr=&btnG=Szukaj+w+Google
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
18 Jan 2011 #95
Commodity prices will continue to rise everywhere as people start catching on to how messed up Government spending and borrowing actually is.

there are a lot of people in Poland who are already aware of this, especially those who run their own companies. The problem is that those who are not aware usually are those who benefit from working for the government, EU found distribution centers- as I call them. There is tons of people who are still wasting public money in Poland and from what I have observed, the group is not decreasing in numbers.

I am wondering what is gonna happen once the EU funds dries up. It is not enough to patch the years of neglect of the infrastructures.

The present flood is one of the examples. It is only going to get worse, not that I am pessimistic.

I was away for over 5 years and overall, there hasn't been that much improvement in the infrastructure, I only see some cosmetic jobs done, at least in Sz-n.

I don't know how it is in other parts of Poland, but just using PKP as a reference point, I cannot see any serious improvements in Poland happening soon.
stallion 3 | 15
18 Jan 2011 #96
According to this article the food prices in Poland are not that bad when compared to other places in europe...

neurope.eu/articles/Poles-have-lowest-food-prices-in-Europe /104224.php

Food prices in Poland are lower than in other countries in Europe, according to a survey by Euromonitor International, published by Tuesday's Rzeczpospolita daily.

"90% of food in our market comes from domestic production which is the scene of strong competition.

Similar situation is in trade which has impact on prices," director of Polish Organisation of Trade and Distribution Andrzej Falinski said.

Apple prices are 340% lower in Poland than in Italy and France, tea prices are 14% lower than in Britain and 585% lower than in Germany.

Also cheaper is sugar, tomatoes, milk, poultry, flour or butter.

Poland's coffee and wine prices are in the region of the European average.

Food prices in Poland are not only lower than in Western Europe but also than in central European countries.

In Hungary only prices of beer and wine are lower than in Poland, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia only prices of carbonated drinks.
poland_
18 Jan 2011 #97
I don't know how it is in other parts of Poland, but just using PKP as a reference point, I cannot see any serious improvements in Poland happening soon.

The cost of rail travel is quite inexpensive in comparison to the rest of the E.U block. I guess the real question - are you prepared to pay the higher price for an improved network?

In the UK in order to improve the system, the rail network was privatized,the first move was to increase the cost of rail travel. I believe the rail network is very much underdeveloped in PL and has great potential, although the investment required is deep and long term.
jwojcie 2 | 763
18 Jan 2011 #98
The richest people in the Polish capital Warsaw

And your point is? Everybody knows that Poland is one of the poorest in EU...
I suppose with your link you are reffering to map below. Keep in mind that it is in nominal value:

The GfK purchasing power study does not take into account regional cost-of-living variations

PP
alexw68
18 Jan 2011 #99
In the UK in order to improve the system, the rail network was privatized,the first move was to increase the cost of rail travel.

And look how that turned out :)

Yours, a decidedly former London commuter.
OP milky 13 | 1,657
18 Jan 2011 #100
neurope.eu/articles/Poles-have-lowest-food-prices-in-Europe
This article is out of context ;so what if tea is 14% cheaper than GB,What about the elephant in the room fact that wages are four time lower in Poland.

I was away for over 5 years and overall, there hasn't been that much improvement in the infrastructure,

I hear the same point been made from all the people that i meet in the Lublin area. I personally think, that ther selling of the Family Silver(500 billion) in that shock therapy(mass privitisation) scam was a recipe for disaster.

youtube.com/watch?v=aSF0e6oO_tw

naomiklein.org/articles/2007/11/shocked-death-shocked-life-more-taser-story
poland_
18 Jan 2011 #101
And look how that turned out :)

It is always cheaper to learn off other peoples mistakes.

The eroding levels of disposable income in PL. maybe we will start to see interest rates in PL go up, and the Zloty strengthen in order to make imported Commodities less expensive (oil, LPG). Its all about solutions - not problems.
alexw68
18 Jan 2011 #102
It is always cheaper to learn off other peoples mistakes.

In principle yes. But if they've privatised the networks out to franchises then, in effect, they have learned nothing.
delphiandomine 83 | 18,095
18 Jan 2011 #103
I personally think, that ther selling of the Family Silver(500 billion) in that shock therapy(mass privitisation) scam was a recipe for disaster.

So what else would you have done? They had nothing else to compare it to, and the country was bankrupt. The West wanted their loans paid. The country was economically ruined and had little choice but to liberalise quickly - indeed, the condition of financial aid was that the country implement the "shock therapy".

Don't forget that the shock therapy allowed Poland to grow very very fast between 95 and the present day.
Harry
18 Jan 2011 #104
I was at M & S in Warsaw yesterday for my comfort foods and noticed the prices have increased quite a lot, on some products as much as 30%.

Really? I was last in their Friday of last week and stocked up with a couple of hundred zlots' worth of frozen food. Didn't notice that prices had gone up at all.

The richest people in the Polish capital Warsaw therefore have less money at their disposal than the poorest rural district in Germany.

Good logic M. I personally live here and can assure you that although I am far from being rich by Warsaw standards, I certainly have more money at my disposal than the poorest rural district in Germany.
poland_
18 Jan 2011 #105
Really? I was last in their Friday of last week and stocked up with a couple of hundred zlots' worth of frozen food. Didn't notice that prices had gone up at all.

I was in the Zloty Terrace , yesterday and noticed the prices had gone up, Pasta's, tea. canned products. The only frozen food I buy is the fish. Check the next time you are there.

Millions of savers in the UK need accounts paying at least 6 per cent interest to achieve a real rate of return on their investments after inflation rose again. It would be interesting what interest level would be required in PL.

telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8266502/Millions-of-savers-need-6pc-to-beat-inflation.html
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jan 2011 #106
We should strive to be like them.

we should work on developing an alternative energy (ASAP) that will allow us to be independent instead to worry about the oil market.

Currently averaging about $3.15/gallon

yep, $2.99 today where I live

We will as soon as they are $1.40 a gallon.

wow, actually everyone will be extremely happy here once it will go down to $1.40 a gallon.

Millions and millions of people on a daily basis, there's no need to drive in any decent sized city.

yep, it helps to travel and see how others live before just making some kind of fantasy comments :-)
convex 20 | 3,978
18 Jan 2011 #107
we should work on developing an alternative energy (ASAP) that will allow us to be independent instead to worry about the oil market.

If I were to move back to the states, I'd probably run natural gas or brew up biodiesel at home for the vehicles. The costs of wind-solar-geothermal-biodiesel has dropped dramatically over the last 10 years. There are even some turbine aircraft engines running on biodiesel without a hitch.

yep, it helps to travel and see how others live before just making some kind of fantasy comments :-)

It's a question of space. Mass transit for cities with 350 people per km2 (OKC) is much harder to pull off than for cities with 5600/km2 (Wroclaw). For the East coast, makes perfect sense, everything to the west...well, why even bother?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jan 2011 #108
If I were to move back to the states, I'd probably run natural gas or brew up biodiesel at home for the vehicles. The costs of wind-solar-geothermal-biodiesel has dropped dramatically over the last 10 years. There are even some turbine aircraft engines running on biodiesel without a hitch.

You should be doing it in Poland too. Your energy costs are even higher than here.
To be honest, the whole world needs to do something about it.

It's a question of space. Mass transit for cities with 350 people per km2 (OKC) is much harder to pull off than for cities with 5600/km2 (Wroclaw). For the East coast, makes perfect sense, everything to the west...well, why even bother?

I only mentioned it because WB made it sound like there's no mass transit in the US at all.
Wroclaw Boy
18 Jan 2011 #109
yep, it helps to travel and see how others live before just making some kind of fantasy comments :-)

It wasnt a fantasy comment i didnt even bother with your NYC reply as it was obvious. Ive been to the states several times including major cities, first thing i do is rent a car, youre just lost without one.

Heres a thought why is fuel so cheap in the US? if it wasnt how many business would go bankrupt over night? Most of the time you need a car to even get anywhere near public transport let alone the retail outlets. Yes there will be exceptions in the major cities, but in suburbia forget it.

in America it is more necessary to use a car than pretty much anywhere else in the world, are you denying that?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jan 2011 #110
first thing i do is rent a car, youre just lost without one.

Many people in NYC sell their cars because it's faster to go by subway or even to walk.

but in suburbia forget it.

in the suburbs everyone has at least 1 car, most of people have even 2 or 3

in America it is more necessary to use a car than pretty much anywhere else in the world, are you denying that?

Yep, you definitely need a car if you live in the country or a small town.

Isn't it the same in the UK?
poland_
18 Jan 2011 #111
The eroding levels of disposable income in PL. maybe we will start to see interest rates in PL go up, and the Zloty strengthen in order to make imported Commodities less expensive (oil, LPG)

freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=74782
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
19 Jan 2011 #112
Food prices in Poland are lower than in other countries in Europe, according to a survey by Euromonitor International, published by Tuesday's Rzeczpospolita daily.

they obviously selected a minimum number of countries for the survey.

there is plenty of cheaper food in germany. and where it might be more expensive, so is the quality.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Jan 2011 #113
we should work on developing an alternative energy (ASAP) that will allow us to be independent instead to worry about the oil market.

Absolutely! Now more than ever we need to develop the hydrogen economy.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
19 Jan 2011 #114
Many people in NYC sell their cars because it's faster to go by subway or even to walk.

NYC is the exception. It's not a typically American city.

we should work on developing an alternative energy (ASAP) that will allow us to be independent instead to worry about the oil market.

Ethanol. Brazil is energy independent due to ethanol and Sweden is big on ethanol also. You can virtually make it out of anything and it has superior burn characteristics in the engine.

Absolutely! Now more than ever we need to develop the hydrogen economy.

Right now hydrogen comes from fossil fuels, back to square one. It's so difficult to extract that a scientist thought the idea of an hydrogen economy was a hoax. Also it's highly explosive (remember the Hildinberg).
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Jan 2011 #115
NYC is the exception. It's not a typically American city.

Subway, yes, but walking in NYC can take forever! Manhattan is quite spacious with lots of space between buildings. It's surprising how much space exists in a place with so many buildings. Even the buildings are blocky and take a while to walk around. I wouldn't recommend walking in Manhattan unless everything is within a few blocks radius or prepare to walk a marathon.

Also it's highly explosive

You would have to go to liquid hydrogen. You can get quite creative. There's ways to make it less explosive.

Yes, the idea is to get the hydrogen without releasing the carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
OP milky 13 | 1,657
19 Jan 2011 #116
A country like Poland, with a large section of the population with virtually no disposable income;could run into an inflationary crises soon,if the government continues its policy of doing nothing and hoping for the best.
poland_
19 Jan 2011 #117
The main reason why Poland is projected not to do too well in the future is the expected demographic decline. The model assumes that the fertility rate in Poland will remain low at 1.3 and that there will be no immigration. Both assumptions are incorrect.

First, the fertility rate in Poland is already increasing, exceeding 1.4 in 2009, up from 1.3 in 2003. What is more important, pressed by the society and rising future pension costs, the Polish government will have no choice, but to enhance its pro-family policy (I admit though that some serious pushing will be needed). It is already happening, with, for instance, the new law on infant care, but much more is to come soon. As a result, fertility rates will increase, although I am convinced that for social reasons (the fact that the social role of women in Poland has permanently changed), the fertility rate will never exceed 2.0 again.

Second, Poland is set to become a big recipient of immigrants, reversing the 300 year old trend. This is because with rising income Poland will become more and more attractive. When Poland's GDP per capita rises above 70% of the EU average, similarly to Spain in the mid-1990s and the Czech Republic recently, it is likely to start receiving substantial immigration flows. I bet that by 2030 at least two million immigrants will have arrived to stay. More immigrants will come later, legal or illegal.

mpiatkowski.blogspot.com/2011/01/hsbcs-forecast-for-world-in-2050.html

In 40 years, earnings in Poland will increase fourfold, say economists at HSBC bank.

Poland's economy will grow by 83 percent within the next four decades, according to the new report, raising income per capita to 72,300 zloty (over 18,000 euro) annually.

Poles' earnings will then be on par with France or Germany, the latter seeing an 11-percent growth in GDP.

While Poland's economic development will surpass the growth of most Western countries, it will be insufficient for the country to make its mark on the global economic map and will still be languishing in 24th place in the world, with GDP reaching 786 billion USD.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks Poland is to face in the coming years is an aging society. According to UN forecasts, the number of professionally active citizens will drop by a third by 2050.

Meanwhile, the emerging economies of Turkey, India and Mexico will make a major leap forward in four decades, while China is to take over as the world's largest economy, outdoing the United States.
convex 20 | 3,978
19 Jan 2011 #118
More people = wealthier Poland...or wealthier Poles? I'd say the former, especially considering that social services and urban infrastructures aren't exactly in great condition.
OP milky 13 | 1,657
19 Jan 2011 #119
I read recently that Poland has lost 2 million children in the last 10 years alone, due to people leaving the country,in search of work or a proper wage. Also Will Poles not be flocking into German soon as it opens up it job's market.

The population is falling and protections estimate that there will be four million Poles fewer than today in 2030.

I bet that by 2030 at least two million immigrants will have arrived to stay

yes,maybe, to fill in the gap for the Poles who left for Germany because they were sick of working for 2 euros an hour.

In 40 years, earnings in Poland will increase fourfold, say economists at HSBC bank.

how can you predict this far, in a free-market economy!!!!. This is up there with Crows rant, about Polish becoming the language of europe...
jwojcie 2 | 763
19 Jan 2011 #120
Reading this thread is like cutting skin with a razor or just simple old-fashioned whipping...
Someone should change the title to "vanitas vanitatum, et omnia vanitas"... ;-)


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