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A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich


Wroclaw Boy
30 May 2012 #1
Seems to me that there is a great void between the rich and the poor in Poland, the haves dont care about the have nots as long as the 'haves' keep getting what they want. Personally (a few hooligans aside) the London riots for me was essentially the perfect example of the poor rising up against the rich ion the only way they know how - anarchy.

In Poland the poor are so used to getting proverbially shafted up the rear they just take it, but wheres the cut off point? at what point will they say enough is enough?
pawian 176 | 14,831
30 May 2012 #2
the London riots for me was essentially the perfect example of the poor rising up against the rich

Come on. Don`t make it more serious than it really was. :):):):)

The London/UK riots last year were caused by spoilt brats who had gotten bored with their trendy gadgets and wanted to try sth different, like burning houses, for a change.

but wheres the cut off point? at what point will they say enough is enough?

The point is in very far future. Polish brats aren`t as spoilt as British counterparts.
OP Wroclaw Boy
30 May 2012 #3
The London/UK riots last year were caused by spoilt brats

its a well documented fact that the majority of the London rioters were of foreign ethnicities, in a word poor people.

The point is in very far future. Polish brats aren`t as spoilt as British counterparts.

seems to me one doesnt need to be of foreign decent to be poor in Poland.

Pawian, whats your stance on the Polish economy?
pawian 176 | 14,831
30 May 2012 #4
its a well documented fact that the majority of the London rioters were of foreign ethnicities, in a word poor people.

So, you assume that foreign ethnicity equals poverty. OK.

But was poverty really the main driving force behind the riots?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
30 May 2012 #5
London riots for me was essentially the perfect example of the poor rising up against the rich ion the only way they know how - anarchy.

No it wasnt, your average family who are struggling were at work trying to make a living, whilst the scum who dont work were on the streets mugging and smashing shops up and taking what they wanted and left a huge mess behind them and ruined the livelihood of hundreds of people who are struggling in these hard times!

The London/UK riots last year were caused by spoilt brats who had gotten bored with their trendy gadgets and wanted to try sth different, like burning houses, for a change.

SOOOOOOOOOOO true!

its a well documented fact that the majority of the London rioters were of foreign ethnicities, in a word poor people

There were also plenty of foreign ethnics who had their businesses burnt and looted!

The point is in very far future. Polish brats aren`t as spoilt as British counterparts.

Not yet..Sorry but a time will come when they are just has horrid...
irishguy11 6 | 157
30 May 2012 #6
And what about all the rich daddy's girl that got involved. One millionaire's daughter got jailed for being a get away driver. There was a thing on channel 4 a while back, interviewing about 20 rich kids that took part.

I know there was more than 20 involved, but it showed that there was a high number of middle and higher class people took part in the riots.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
30 May 2012 #7
Brainless idiots with a useless degree, there's always been that element of rich kids wanting to get down with the po people...they think its "trendy" and something to brag to their other rich friends about...The silly moo that got caught was unlucky to say the least, her little thrill of mixing with thugs and thieves has possibly ruined her life..for now at least..
OP Wroclaw Boy
30 May 2012 #8
So, you assume that foreign ethnicity equals poverty. OK.

I dont assume - i know. Look into Polands future......gaze through the crystal ball ---- i see chinese immigrants, russians and Ukranians all loaded and driving Porches whilst ordering take away fillet steak meals. Get real man, foreigners that come to foreign countries come because they are poor. Thats why they move in the first place.

No it wasnt, your average family who are struggling were at work trying to make a living, whilst the scum who dont work were on the streets mugging and smashing shops up and taking what they wanted and left a huge mess behind them and ruined the livelihood of hundreds of people who are struggling in these hard times!

The kids on the street as you so biasedly commented were the children of under priveledged families, the cannon fodder of modern society, the dregs, collateral damage etc. Its convenient for idiots like you to brand them becasue idiots like you dont possess the capacity to understahd the underlying issues that put them in those circumstances in the first place.

There were also plenty of foreign ethnics who had their businesses burnt and looted!

Hail to the guy that commented on you being captain obvious. Hello, its friggen LONDON.....

One millionaire's daughter got jailed for being a get away driver.

Minority, there will always be minorities. Its these types of headlines that stick - and blur peoples understanding of the underlying, true principles.

1 warning
wawa_marek 1 | 129
30 May 2012 #9
In Poland the poor are so used to getting proverbially shafted up the rear they just take it, but wheres the cut off point? at what point will they say enough is enough?

Quarter century ago most of people in Poland have similar income, no matter if someone was an engineer or a plumber. There were mostly no large scale private companies in the market. Most of the population were employees at state owned institutions. Teachers, lawyers, drivers, workers were living in same houses. After 1989 things changed rapidly. Everybody could run their own business, the Warsaw Stock Exchange started, some people used credits to buy the companies they were employed in. Some people started to increase their property 1000% yearly. A new class of millionaires established. Some of them educated at entry level, some of them with university degree. Others were doing nothing - just waiting - these are still poor. They had their chance anyway.
pawian 176 | 14,831
30 May 2012 #10
We can delay this time by keeping RCC religion classes in schools as long as possible.
OP Wroclaw Boy
30 May 2012 #11
1 warning

uhh ho we have a prejudice moderator on the case, its the new yankee guy that has an unrelated personal issue.
pawian 176 | 14,831
30 May 2012 #12
Mods are only doing their job.

You perfectly know the possible result of calling other posters idiots. Especially, when they are intelligent women.
Gruffi_Gummi - | 106
30 May 2012 #13
at what point will they say enough is enough?

IMO, the poor rebel when they notice that the system blocks their attempts to get out of poverty. By high taxation. By overregulation. By cracking down on grey market. By all things that restrain social mobility and condemn the poor to remain poor (and dependent on entitlement programs) forever. People can accept being poor if they see improvement or a chance for improvement. When they hit the glass ceiling, they become mad.
pawian 176 | 14,831
30 May 2012 #14
By all things that restrain social mobility and condemn the poor to remain poor

As long as there is democracy, everybody is free to shape his/her life as they want. In democracy, everybody has a chance to become somebody. If people don`t take the chance, it is their problem. It is enough to learn and read books - that is what I tell my students. Guys who don`t listen, end up in protest demonstrations against unemployment.

youtube.com/watch?v=qPkUVOKmls0
jon357 67 | 16,843
30 May 2012 #15
Exactly. When the rich pay so much less tax in proportion to their income as the poor, when they have different access to healthcare, when social services and education budgets are constantly cut in a society where 'the poor' have a certain level of expectation, then conflict occurs. The class struggle is exactly as Marx defined it.
southern 75 | 7,096
30 May 2012 #16
I see in Greece a mass collapse.The main problem is that noone is willing to admit the causes of the problem.Their problem is the mass indifference of the folks.In my opinion the only option for the elites to remain is to force a dicatorship but I doubt if they have the guts to do so.It is like a challenge.Dare to do that and I will burn you.
OP Wroclaw Boy
30 May 2012 #17
People can accept being poor if they see improvement or a chance for improvement. When they hit the glass ceiling, they become mad.

what will the rich do if everybody was rich? boom....they would no longer be rich would they. They would be normal people.....

You perfectly know the possible result of calling other posters idiots. Especially, when they are intelligent women.

a severe difference of opinion is in order here

As long as there is democracy, everybody is free to shape his/her life as they want. In democracy, everybody has a chance to become somebody. If people don`t take the chance, it is their problem.

strongest survive then, what about the others that are not naturally business minded?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
30 May 2012 #18
There are plenty of underprivilege kids around the country that didnt feel the need to take to the streets to loot and destroy the businesses of decent people have worked hard to create, there are ways and means of being heard, destroying private and public property isnt the way forward as all these disgusting people have found out. The decent people were those who took the streets the day after to clean the mess up! They were ones who showed us that this country isnt such a bad place after all. Kids who apply themselves and are competive will be the ones who succeed, those who fail to realise that hard work and determination is what they require will fail and will end up in the same benefits trap their parents are in. I appreciate things are difficult in this country, but people must realise that in order to succeed, they have to work harder than ever!

We can delay this time by keeping RCC religion classes in schools as long as possible.

We have better exam results in Catholic schools in the UK, so you might be right ;0)

But was poverty really the main driving force behind the riots?

I dont believe it was, it was lack of structure, discipline, inability to grasp the fact they could have had a good education but blew it, lets blame it on someone but themselves mentality..They wanted the nice new shiny mobile phone but not prepared to work for it..they believe that working in a shop or fast food outlet is beneath them but at the same time they dont have the skills or education to get anything better and they aren't prepared to better themselves in order to get a decent job!
pawian 176 | 14,831
30 May 2012 #19
We have better exam results in Catholic schools in the UK

So do we in Poland. :):):):)

IThey wanted the nice new shiny mobile phone but not prepared to work for it..they believe that working in a shop or fast food outlet is beneath them but at the same time they dont have the skills or education to get anything better and they aren't prepared to better themselves in order to get a decent job!

I can sign under it with my both hands.

strongest survive then, what about the others that are not naturally business minded?

Look and read above.
OP Wroclaw Boy
30 May 2012 #20
I appreciate things are difficult in this country, but people must realise that in order to succeed, they have to work harder than ever!

Work hard at what? capitalism ----- assuming that growth is uncapped..... How many computers can be manufactered till there are no components left, just carry on driving cars till the oil wells run dry, just keep cooking til natural gas runs out. These are all finite resources THEY WILL DEPLETE.

But hey Shelley aka amathyst lets just concern oursleves with economics rather than actual resources hey.....I mean lets not even bother thinking about actual GLOBAL energy resources when a good old price war is the main issue on many peoples minds. .........Small minds..........
p3undone 8 | 1,135
30 May 2012 #21
WroclawBoy,I would rather not have to warn or suspend,but if your going to be abusive to the other posters,I have to respond.It's not an

unrelated personal issue or prejudice.You don't have to insult me or the other posters.
wawa_marek 1 | 129
31 May 2012 #22
'the poor' have a certain level of expectation, then conflict occurs.

So what - next revolution? Read about 1917 in Russia, 1980 in Poland - poor left poor as they were before, but some others reached their goals.
jon357 67 | 16,843
31 May 2012 #23
Next revolution? No. There needs to be another set of conditions like that. In any volition there are winners and losers, however as far as the Russian revolution was concerned, the living standards of the poor were so appalling beforehand that anything was an improvement. At least the peasants got glass in their windows and a chance to be literate.
wawa_marek 1 | 129
31 May 2012 #24
Russian revolution was concerned, the living standards of the poor were so appalling beforehand that anything was an improvement

Not Russian but Soviet. Improvement concerned only that who were still alive. Read about this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
31 May 2012 #25
Work hard at what? capitalism ----- assuming that growth is uncapped..... How many computers can be manufactered till there are no components left, just carry on driving cars till the oil wells run dry, just keep cooking til natural gas runs out. These are all finite resources THEY WILL DEPLETE.

Oh from riots and the poor to resources? Are you aware of the term "green energy" this country is a bit late on the bandwaggon but nevertheless, we are making moves towards a future of self-sufficiency, with solar / ground engery, as for gas etc, pray tell what car do you drive? Im quite content with my carbon foot print since I use public transport, which also going green, slowly but surely.

But hey Shelley aka amathyst lets just concern oursleves with economics rather than actual resources hey.....I mean lets not even bother thinking about actual GLOBAL energy resources when a good old price war is the main issue on many peoples minds. .........Small minds..........

What do you really know about the intricacies of economics? and what do you know about resources and this countries shift with regards to the energy industry? I wont insult you, because Im not going to lower myself, but my guess would be that your knowledge of both is rather limited, just like the reasons for the riots, hence the reason you have made this shift in your argument.

You perfectly know the possible result of calling other posters idiots. Especially, when they are intelligent women.

Thank you. Just noticed this :)
OP Wroclaw Boy
31 May 2012 #26
WroclawBoy,I would rather not have to warn or suspend,but if your going to be abusive to the other posters,I have to respond.It's not an
unrelated personal issue or prejudice.You don't have to insult me or the other posters.

Firstly: please learn the basics of universal typing: one space after a comma and two spaces after a full stop. You also need to learn about paragraphs. I was going to PM you but i thought that would be rude and assumed somebody else would. Nobody did so there it is.

Secondly: in order for you to make the judgemehnt call that you think is correct you need to take history into account, you didnt.

Thirdly: i dont take kindly to words such as "1 warning" with no explenation.
Gruffi_Gummi - | 106
31 May 2012 #27
As long as there is democracy, everybody is free to shape his/her life as they want. In democracy, everybody has a chance to become somebody.

I recommend Alexis de Tocqueville, "Democracy in America", Chapter XV. Here:
xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/1_ch15.htm
Democracy can (and does) degenerate into tyranny of the majority, and then you may observe various "do-good" policies. A few examples:

- high taxes imposed by representatives of the indoctrinated mob, which only have the effect of satisfying the mob's sense of envy (from the point of view of economics such taxes eliminate productive jobs and restrain social mobility: the rich remain rich, the poor remain poor)

- in the United States, the push for making home ownership available to everybody. Such a noble idea, wasn't it? Its effects: increasing the availability of loans, RAISING THE PRICES of real estate (Economy 101) and making it UNAVAILABLE to middle class (because they don't own their homes, banks do). College loans (following the same mechanism) should also be mentioned here.

Democracy can, as easily as any individual or collective tyrant, deprive people of opportunities to better their lives. Then they rebel.
OP Wroclaw Boy
31 May 2012 #28
we are making moves towards a future of self-sufficiency, with solar / ground engery

Ground energy! WTF is ground energy? you mean geo thermal LOL.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
31 May 2012 #29
Not sure what you find so funny, have you never heard of GES? Maybe not since you found me saying ground engery so funny..It stands for Ground Energy System. .
p3undone 8 | 1,135
31 May 2012 #30
WroclawBoy,1st I don't care about universal typing and paragraphs,as I am not writing a novel or essay.2nd I don't need to take the history

in account,when I posted 1 warning under the post in which you were insulting and 3rd refer back to the second.You can critique my internet

prose all you like,I'm not here to impress you or any one else.All's I'm asking for is that you don't insult,is that too much to ask?


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