The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Life  % width posts: 518

Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best?


TheOther 6 | 3,692
24 Mar 2012 #61
increasing number of ukrainians

Let's say, a few million Ukrainians move to Poland. Would they be welcomed by the locals, or would the same problems arise as in the west? What's your opinion?
Bieganski 17 | 896
24 Mar 2012 #62
grubas: It not that Poles don't want to breed they simply can't afford it in this sad,anti citizen,opressive country..

It isn`t true. Quite the opposite. Never in their history have Poles been as prosperous as today. I claim it is prosperity that halted reproduction - people prefer comfortable lives to family duties.

Everyone responds to the realities or understanding of the environment they live in.

Just a few generations ago European families were very large. Having anywhere from six to even twelve children was not uncommon. Europeans of a bygone era managed this but times and conditions have changed.

Almost all people in advanced economies like Europe are more educated today (this includes being more secular) and are living longer lives as well. Parents recognize that they must largely pay their own way and that of their children if they want to be successful in the highly competitive societies they live in. Poles may be more prosperous now but the living costs in Poland and elsewhere in Europe are significantly higher than in previous decades and have always been so compared to developing countries. There is also a general awareness that life has uncertainties that can affect a person's or family's standard of living. For example, a family may experience a job loss due to their employer relocating production or operations overseas. If they find another job it may be in a lower wage bracket due to immigrants in that sector who have forced wages down. Or they may face soaring costs in food, fuel, rents, taxes, etc. Whatever the circumstances parents recognize the benefit of being a smaller unit so by having fewer children they are able to accumulate more wealth and maintain or advance their family's quality of life. This results in peer pressure as well. When new parents see other families which are small but successful they are likely to follow that example rather than that of the larger but struggling families that exist in immigrant communities or the third world.

In contrast poorer nations do not have the same access to good schools and better health care and have economies that are still very labour intensive. Having more children still makes sense for them even though it is their larger populations that are actually holding back their development. This is why so many flee to find opportunities and better quality of life in developed countries which are that way because they have smaller but suitable population sizes.
Meathead 5 | 470
24 Mar 2012 #63
grubas: It not that Poles don't want to breed they simply can't afford it in this sad,anti citizen,opressive country..

Moral of the story Poland needs more of a social safety net and higher wages, the babies will follow. But the Polish government doesn't represent the best interests of the Poles, it gets it's marching orders from the European elite. Immigration won't solve their diaspora.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 Mar 2012 #64
What a fantastic and interesting subject :)

I know someone that was born in a 3rd world country. He went to study in Canada in the 90s. He studied Robotics and did his graduation project on a practical application of interfacing GPS with motion control systems. He was given a full scholarship, and he received several job offers before he even graduated, all from American companies. They were not concerned with his skin color or native culture or sexual orientation or what not, they simply saw what he can give to their society and economy.

This is how the US gets the best human capital. Do we see Russia going out of her way to recruit outstanding students from other countries? No we don't, and that is why the US always wins the race to attract quality immigrants, and that is why they are always on top.

Maybe Poland should look into attracting more foreign students, and then work on keeping the smart ones by creating opportunities for them? That is how others have attracted the "crème de la crème" of their human resources and continue to do so today.

Food for thought:
Someone mentioned that they believe that a certain "race" is solely responsible for the majority of collective human achievement. How naive! This is the classical argument used by each and every racially oriented supremacy movement in history to justify their own existence and attract mindless recruit after mindless recruit. This very thought is the seed of all xenophobia and the disasters that come from it. Do people that preach this theory know how Nazism started? If not, then they should look it up.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
24 Mar 2012 #65
What about chain DIY stores?

Can we expect a flood of engineers or kitchen chiefs?
khanfrompak 2 | 12
24 Mar 2012 #66
Let ASIAN make a big positive change culture and economy wise here.......UK/USA/CANADA/AUST all have asian immigrants and they have non-shortage of work force there...poland need to relax of policy and there will be a lot who like to come and be here.
grubas 12 | 1,390
24 Mar 2012 #67
Never in their history have Poles been as prosperous as today. I claim it is prosperity that halted reproduction - people prefer comfortable lives to family duties.

Yeah Poles in Poland are so prosperous that 3 MILIONS decided to leave this paradise,must be that they were simply sick and tired of all that comfort and prosperity around them and for a change wanted to become semi slaves in other parts of Europe.Listen ******* get them back first then you can talk about importing semi civilized immigrants.
ReservoirDog - | 132
24 Mar 2012 #68
Listen ******* get them back first then you can talk about importing semi civilized immigrants

Ohh please grubas, why are you so serious??? It's just theoretical discussion. Pawian is a teacher not a politician. I agree with your last words, it's not good if people are leaving despite of political propaganda of success.
Ironside 51 | 11,499
24 Mar 2012 #69
Pawian is a teacher not a politician.

thats what he says and I don't believe him!
Who in his/her right mind would say that Poland needs more immigrants? Only a politician or a fool.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Mar 2012 #70
Which nationalities would you recommend for Poland?

Id say those from south east asia, they mix and do well, I know a couple of chinese / english relationships which have stood the test of time and the kids are well balanced and are doing well, and tpeople form these countries dont demand special treatment, they adapt and whilst they have their own culture they dont try and force it on others.

But of course that isnt really the answer, the answer is plain, make Poland attractive for those who left so they feel they want to return, I saw at least 3 couples in tescos last night who were Polish who had kids with them...

But schools in the countryside will dwindle, people are looking for more these days, its happened in the UK, you can look forward to over crowded cities in the future, look at London it's approaching 10 million!
grubas 12 | 1,390
24 Mar 2012 #71
Ohh please grubas, why are you so serious???

Because this kind of bs really pisses me off.When the minimum wage in Poland reach equivalent of,say,900 euros and there still won't be enough POLISH workers then,yes,government can consider importing some foraigners to work on TEMPORARY visas WITHOUT the possibility to settle or bring the family.Simply do what you were brought here to do then take your money and OUT.But at this point talks about not enough workers is a plain bull crap.There is not enough semi slaves willing to work like dogs for 1500 PLN but start paying 4000 PLN and you will find plenty.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768
24 Mar 2012 #72
I know someone that was born in a 3rd world country.

While that was a well meant post, it ignores some painfully evident truths and perhaps is a bit sad because of that. You really believe what you've written and appear oblivious to the facts. I've used your post for inspiration, it really was well written but have changed the perspective from examining the exception to presenting the cold reality:

I know someone that was born in a 3rd world country. He went to study in Canada in the 90s. He dropped out and got involved with a local ethnic gang, becoming an expert on the practical application of smuggling and human trafficking. He was caught but given a lenient sentence, and he received offers from several lawyers willing to argue why deporting him is against his rights. They were not concerned with past, his victims nor were they concerned with what effect he and people like him have had on their host community, only his skin colour and how that could be used to line their own pockets.This is how the US gets the worstt human capital. Do we see Russia needing to go going out of her way to recruit outstanding students from other countries? No we don't, because they have a tougher and stricter education system and that is why the US always loses the race to develop many more quality local students (have you seen where the U.S. places in education statistics?), and that is why they are getting worse every year.

In today's day and age, relying on immigration to maintain your standard of living, culture and progress is the first step to throwing out your culture, standard of living, values and progress.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 Mar 2012 #73
In today's day and age, relying on immigration to maintain your standard of living, culture and progress is the first step to throwing out your culture, standard of living, values and progress.

Very well said. I can't disagree with you. Relying entirely on immigration (alone) is a sure way to lose your identity. Look at what happened in Zanzibar for example...

And you can most certainly import criminals and terrorists if your immigration policy is too lenient. I guess it would have to be carefully evaluated on a case by case basis...

However, some immigration is not entirely bad... Of course, that has to go hand in hand with other measures, which are not the subject of this particular thread.
pip 10 | 1,659
24 Mar 2012 #74
Immigration is not bad--but I don't think it would work in Poland.
southern 75 | 7,096
24 Mar 2012 #75
First of all Ukrainian immigrants should learn to enjoy Zubrowka instead of illegally importing all these Gorilkas.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768
24 Mar 2012 #76
However, some immigration is not entirely bad... Of course, that has to go hand in hand with other measures, which are not the subject of this particular thread.

It is not bad, I agree. However, I again must emphasize that it IS BAD when people feel they have no choice to improve their lives other than leaving the place they were born. The immigration that occurs on a large scale today is due to very bad conditions in many places, that has to be addressed before the conditions find their way into the place where you live.

While being a welcoming person may be a nice ideal, perhaps being critical of why things are so is a more pragmatic alternative.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Mar 2012 #77
The immigration that occurs on a large scale today is due to very bad conditions in many places, that has to be addressed before the conditions find their way into the place where you live.

Its been tried. The people at the top just steal the money/aid given. Bokasa, Mugabi, Ghadaffi, the list is endless. If you want to end this, get rid of the Swiss Bankers.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Mar 2012 #78
Immigration is not bad--but I don't think it would work in Poland.

Small scale immigration is fine, where people integrate and take on the host country as their own - It doesnt happen over night..slowly slowly you see areas turn into places you no longer recognise..it can happen in any developed country.

Its been tried. The people at the top just steal the money/aid given. Bokasa, Mugabi, Ghadaffi, the list is endless. If you want to end this, get rid of the Swiss Bankers.

Nothing to do with the Swiss bankers...some cultures are rotton to the core and corruption is inbred and accepted as the norm.
poland_
24 Mar 2012 #79
Good luck with that, because all European nations (not to forget the USA, Canada and Australia) want these people and Poland has to face a keen competition

If you are a family in the UK, France or Netherlands and you are completely disillusioned by your governments PC policies then Poland could be a near option, for those of you that have never been to Australia or New Zealand it is a long way away, especially when the older members of your family start to develop problems with health. Poland is only a couple of hours away from most major western European capitals

The difficult language and the reputation of ex-communist countries in the west are also not very helpful in this respect.

You will get more sense out of people in Warsaw or Krakow than you will out of people in Paris if you don't speak the local dialect.

Poland is heading in the right direction, but I believe that the country needs a few more decades of development before it can seriously think about competing for highly skilled immigrants.

The early bird catches the worm, opportunity for convenience vary rarely go hand in hand.
pip 10 | 1,659
24 Mar 2012 #80
Small scale immigration is fine, where people integrate and take on the host country as their own - It doesnt happen over night..slowly slowly you see areas turn into places you no longer recognise..it can happen in any developed country.

no doubt there are many places in the U.K that have experienced this with Poles.
pip 10 | 1,659
24 Mar 2012 #82
I really don't think I need to. How many people post on this forum alone about the problems with Polish migrant workers? There are loads.
Ironside 51 | 11,499
24 Mar 2012 #83
I think you do! Otherwise somebody may think that you are not talking but making noise or in this case you are not writing but just filing an empty space.

People have many problems and some of them find their way into PF. However it is only indication of theirs views and opinions not the truth.

People may dislike foreigners for many reason, may be wary of them or just do not like |"loud" sounds of gibberish spoken on their streets.

So, would you point out at least one place in Britain where Poles turned into "little-Poland"?
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Mar 2012 #84
Nothing to do with the Swiss bankers...some cultures are rotton to the core and corruption is inbred and accepted as the norm.

Where do you think they keep the money? in their own country? in a neighbouring African country?.

If you are a family in the UK, France or Netherlands and you are completely disillusioned by your governments PC policies then Poland could be a near option, for those of you that have never been to Australia or New Zealand it is a long way away, especially when the older members of your family start to develop problems with health. Poland is only a couple of hours away from most major western European capitals

Good post.
poland_
24 Mar 2012 #85
How many people post on this forum alone about the problems with Polish migrant workers? There are loads.

So, would you point out at least one place in Britain where Poles turned into "little-Poland"?

Enfield.

Poland has produced a disproportionate share of European immigrants, almost one third of all ethnic Poles live abroad. The Polish immigrants can be classified in two distinct categories - political and economic . Countless number of Poles have been driven from their homeland by adverse political fortunes of their country and an economic mismanagement of its Government. Although the origins of the Polish emigrant's community in Great Britain can be traced back to the nineteenth century, their numbers were never large until the Second World War. Nearly all Polish emigrants who stayed after the war can be classified as political immigrants.
OP pawian 182 | 16,861
24 Mar 2012 #86
Yeah Poles in Poland are so prosperous that 3 MILIONS decided to leave this paradise,

First of all, not 3 but 2.2 million.

Restless voyagers left their country to see the other, greener side. But they are coming back today. Experts say half of them have already returned.

Every second Pole, who went abroad after the Polish accession to the EU , he returned to the country. Only every tenth was associated with job loss .

As said Izabela Grabowska - Lusińska of the Centre for Migration Research, University of Warsaw , lasting several years, the economic crisis has meant that fewer Poles decided to migrate from Polish . To the country back half of the 2.2 million people who went abroad after 2004 . - But mainly because the planning is already leaving .

From the presented data it is clear that the economic crisis in the EU countries affected more immigrants than nationals , but not everywhere , for example . , Ireland and Spain, outside the labor market are more natives than visitors from other countries.

Unfortunately, I am seriously doubtful if they are going to increase reproduction. No, they are going to start and run their own businesses to increase their personal prosperity.

Pity.

et's say, a few million Ukrainians move to Poland. Would they be welcomed by the locals, or would the same problems arise as in the west? What's your opinion?

If it happens within a few years that such numbers of immigrants appear in Poland, there will be problems for sure.

However, I believe the influx of immigrants, though rising every year, will never exceed the Polish melting pot`s ability to adopt new citizens.

Some steps are being taken

(Reuters) - Thousands of illegal immigrants will be allowed to stay and work in Poland under an amnesty unveiled on Thursday that highlights the country's transformation into a regional economic powerhouse from communist-era basket case.

Apart from Ukrainians, Belarussians and other former Soviet citizens, members of Poland's ethnic Vietnamese community are expected to be among the main beneficiaries.


I agree Pawian. Poland definitely needs more immigrants. It's not just to solve the population problem but Poland also needs multiculturalism.

Eurostat figures show only 0.1 percent of people in Poland were born abroad, the lowest figure in the European Union.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Mar 2012 #87
no doubt there are many places in the U.K that have experienced this with Poles.

Its a strange one, a lot of Poles seemed have settled in rather ethnic poor areas (I can only go off what I know in Manchester or at least in an area a few miles from where I live) but I know of a family who live next door to my friends mum who live in a nice 3 bed semi in a lovely area..so Id say it depends really because her neighbours are just like anyone else on the road, nice garden, well turned out little kids and speak English to their neighbours and even invite them to bbq's..he's a plaster (my mate has had work done by him) and his wife works in an office, so they're not high flying execs..but they have made it clear that they are here for good...and have integrated perfectly...some nationalities can, some dont seem to be capable.

Where do you think they keep the money? in their own country? in a neighbouring African country?.

Plenty off shore accounts to be had...plus, these type of people will always find a way of stashing it, stocks, shares, property..the list is endless really..
Ironside 51 | 11,499
24 Mar 2012 #88
Enfield.

Few signs and presents of immigrants is not what

slowly slowly you see areas turn into places you no longer recognise..it can happen in any developed country.

OP pawian 182 | 16,861
25 Mar 2012 #89
Poland doesn't need any ******* immigrants.What Poland needs is a decent pro economic growth policy.It not that Poles don't want to breed they simply can't afford it in this sad,anti citizen,opressive country.You need to fight the cause of the problem and inviting here bunch of semi civilized immigrants is not any solution.To hell with that and all who advocate it.

thats what he says and I don't believe him!
Who in his/her right mind would say that Poland needs more immigrants? Only a politician or a fool.

Let me remind you that first discussions on increasing the number of immigrants into Poland were held by Mr Kaczyński`s government in 2007.

A task force, under the auspices of Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski and including officials from ministries of labor, foreign affairs and internal affairs and administration, as well as secret services, is working on an action plan to open the labor market to immigration from Asia or from post-Soviet countries.

A professional study into immigration to Poland from 2009.

Some observances are very interesting:

Only "immigrants" and "transmigrants" from Western Europe and North America differ in choices
of schools for their children. They tend to chose American, British, French or German
kindergartens, primary and secondary schools. Only those married to Poles follow the same pattern
as do other migrants who send their children to ordinary Polish schools. On the one hand, in
selecting international schools, migrant parents seem to prefer enabling their children to sustain ties
with their country of origin or simply to obtain an education in an international environment, no
81
matter the country, no matter the new society. On the other hand, choosing international schools
may stem from the conviction that they provide higher standards of education than does the Polish
schooling system. Nevertheless, it seems clear that, in the case of migrants originating from the
West or Far East, educating children in Poland does not necessarily stimulate the development of
social ties with Polish people and Polish society.


idea6fp.uw.edu.pl/pliki/WP10_Poland.pdf
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
25 Mar 2012 #90
West or Far East, educating children in Poland does not necessarily stimulate the development of
social ties with Polish people and Polish society.

Maybe because these people have no intention of staying, but you should look on the plus side, they are not a burden on the state schooling system and they are adding to the economy by paying for their childrens private education, so in short they are paying into the system and not taking very much out...Also I very much doubt Poland employs teaching assistants who will give extra help to kids who are not native Polish speakers unlike the UK, here's a few adverts that you might find interesting just a few of many that are advertised! How much do you think this is costing the tax payer????? And you want immigrants??

greateducation.co.uk/primary-education-jobs/182517/polish-speaking-teaching-assistant.html?ref=trovit
edustaff.co.uk/job-detail.asp?id=2611

Home / Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best?
Discussion is closed.