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Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best?


pawian 159 | 9,479
22 Mar 2012  #1
As a teacher, I am deeply concerned about such painful issues:

It has been estimated that up to 800 schools will be closed in Poland this year, after 300 were shut down in 2011.
The official reason given for the liquidation of schools throughout Poland is the upcoming demographic downturn that will result in a decline in the number of available pupils for these schools. Of course behind this fact lies a debate about whether schools should be provided as a service, even in areas where there are less pupils, or whether they should be run along the lines of profitable businesses.


beyondthetransition.blogspot.com/2012/01/plans-to-close-hundreds-of-schools-met.html

Someone/something has to put a stop to it.

I suppose Poland needs more foreign children as Polesses don`t want to breed as they used to in the past.

As a rule, immigrants produce a lot of children, that`s what I heard. They might fill the Polish schools with pupils and students.

Currently, a typical Polish class looks like that: Poland class

All white fair skinned and haired Caucasians boys and girls. Fantastic guys, but this homogeneity can get boring in the longer run.

I have nothing against the Polish class look like British,German, French or Dutch one:

Poland students

Poland children

Poland computer

Questions:

Which nationalities would you recommend for Poland? What should Poland do to successfully compete in the immigration market and attract more than other countries? Should Polish men have more sex? :)
RevokeNice 15 | 1,860
22 Mar 2012  #2
Returning emigres, of course.

Keep your nation, Polish.

Otherwise it will cease to be Poland.
OP pawian 159 | 9,479
22 Mar 2012  #3
Keep your nation, Polish.

Otherwise it will cease to be Poland.

The problem is that the Polish nation will cease on its own if it is not backed up by immigrants.

Poland's population growth problem
Bieganski 17 | 901
22 Mar 2012  #4
With the Earth's total human population currently around a staggering 7 billion and growing the question shouldn't be about importing more immigrants or having more children just to give job security to the likes of teachers and politicians who rely on large numbers of people for their own existence.

If it is a matter of younger people being needed to pay for the ever growing expenses and other benefits for older generations then the only logical move would be to make cuts and find other savings instead. It is unsustainable for any country to have continuously large populations especially when they are tending to live significantly long lives.

In a post-industrial era there is no need for lots of people anyway. Additionally, rich countries tend to be creditor nations and specialize in their export markets rather than needing a large domestic market. If Poland needs lots of people they should be tourists.

Poland and every other country have existed just fine with smaller populations in the past. In fact, the quality of life in all of Europe blossomed after the Black Plague because there was more land and other resources available to the surviving populations which had been reduced. Same thing after WWII. And each European country managed a higher standard of living after both catastrophes by not resorting to having population sizes found in places like China and India.

Less is always more.
BBman - | 344
23 Mar 2012  #5
Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best?

1. Encourage Poles who left Poland to return.
2. Bring people in from eastern europe.
3. As a last resort, allow Orientals to immigrate to Poland in small numbers. This will require a tough assimilation/integration programme to go along with this change in demographics, I don;t think Poland needs to repeat the mistakes of western europe.

With the Earth's total human population currently around a staggering 7 billion and growing the question shouldn't be about importing more immigrants or having more children just to give job security to the likes of teachers and politicians who rely on large numbers of people for their own existence.

Overpopulation is a problem in 3rd world countries. They need to cut down on the number of kids they have. This is not a European/North American problem.
OP pawian 159 | 9,479
23 Mar 2012  #6
In a post-industrial era there is no need for lots of people anyway.

Sorry, that`s still only theory, not practice.

Read about contemporary German labour market:

SPIEGEL: Do Germans have anything to fear from these newcomers?
No. They should be pleased. Germany needs immigrants. The demographic situation in the country is fatal, partly because Germans are having too few children. In Britain and Ireland, the numerous immigrants from Eastern Europe have helped boost the local economy. Newcomers are motivated, hard-working, avid consumers and pay tax. Demographers estimate that Germany needs 300,000 extra workers every year if the country is to maintain growth at 2 to 3 percent.

Today EU member states are locked in a ruthless battle for labor. It's not Germans who should be worried about the next wave of immigration, but us Poles. Our workers are being lured away, but nobody wants to come to Poland.


spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,759502,00.html

With the Earth's total human population currently around a staggering 7 billion and growing the question shouldn't be about importing more immigrants or having more children just to give job security to the likes of teachers and politicians who rely on large numbers of people for their own existence.

Yes, I know, I am selfish. I care about my self- sustaining now. :):):):):) Apart from teaching my own children, I need others too.

PS. Thank you for registering and participation in this thread, btw.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 Mar 2012  #7
What can Poland offer new immigrants?
OP pawian 159 | 9,479
23 Mar 2012  #8
1. Encourage Poles who left Poland to return.

I excluded it at the very beginning. Poles are restless travellers, have always been. No matter how well things go in Poland, some Poles will always leave and try new opportunities abroad. The grass is always greener etc sayings are appropriate to describe this matter.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 Mar 2012  #9
Poles are restless travellers, have always been.

Yep, ever hear of Marco Poloski?
OP pawian 159 | 9,479
23 Mar 2012  #10
What can Poland offer new immigrants?

Hey, why are you repeating my question?

What should Poland do to successfully compete in the immigration market and attract more than other countries?

Yep, ever hear of Marco Poloski?

Ever hear that Columbus was Polish?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
23 Mar 2012  #11
Hey, why are you repeating my question?

I did it so people like f2 could understand it.

Ever hear that Columbus was Polish?

Actually I have.
articles.nydailynews.com/2010-11-29/news/27082747_1_christopher-columbus-book-claims-wool-weaver
OP pawian 159 | 9,479
23 Mar 2012  #12
I did it so people like f2 could understand it.

Can you do me a favour and not resort to personal veiled slights in such a serious thread as this? :):):):):)

Which nation would you propose as the best immigration minority?

2. Bring people in from eastern europe.

Yes, I am thinking about it.

E.g., Belarussians are fine people. Peaceful, friendly, intelligent. Thanks to Lukashenka`s regime`s mad policies, Belarussians are slowly losing their fairly satisfactory standard of life.

belarusdigest.com/story/how-survive-200-dollars-month-7591

However, we will compete with Russians who also need Belarussians immigrants:

russiaprofile.org/business/56177.html
Bieganski 17 | 901
23 Mar 2012  #13
Overpopulation is a problem in 3rd world countries. They need to cut down on the number of kids they have. This is not a European/North American problem.

Overpopulation is a global problem. It strains resources everywhere and causes less to be available for current and future generations all over the planet. It is more acute in the developing world and this is the very reason why you see immigrants from there head to Europe, North America and Australia. The problems caused by overpopulation are only being transferred. Some people may believe for the moment that it makes sense to open the door and absorb this excess human capacity in the world just to keep their own current population numbers on the up. But encouraging immigration to Poland or other developed countries won't give an incentive to the third world to have fewer children. It won't act as a relief valve causing future immigration attempts to decline. What really needs to be addressed is what population size Poland should have and why? There is no reason why Poland can't exist with a smaller population than it has today for the reasons I mentioned previously.
EM_Wave 9 | 311
23 Mar 2012  #14
I agree Pawian. Poland definitely needs more immigrants. It's not just to solve the population problem but Poland also needs multiculturalism.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Mar 2012  #15
What benefits you get out of multiculturalism apart from creating ghettos, interracial and intercultural confilcts?
rybnik 18 | 1,462
23 Mar 2012  #16
Which nation would you propose as the best immigration minority?

That's easy. Filipinos, Koreans, Chinese are hard-working and family-oriented. They also make great neighbors.
ShawnH 8 | 1,498
23 Mar 2012  #17
It's not just to solve the population problem

As noted above, moving people is not the key to solving the population problem. Forced sterilization via "water treatment programs" is the key to ending the suffering of countless millions upon millions of the poor and starving populations of the world that can't seem to feed themselves.

Who makes good neighbors?

That's easy. Filipinos, Koreans, Chinese are hard-working and family-oriented. They also make great neighbors.

There is the answer.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
23 Mar 2012  #18
Which nationalities would you recommend for Poland?

Japanese definitely. Japanese women are the most beautiful in the world!
RevokeNice 15 | 1,860
23 Mar 2012  #19
That's easy. Filipinos, Koreans, Chinese are hard-working and family-oriented. They also make great neighbors.

Throw in Mauritians, Canadians, Ozzies, Americans(all of European descent)and Indian Hindus.

The problem is that the Polish nation will cease on its own if it is not backed up by immigrants.

I am well aware of the declining birth rate in Poland. The Polish birth rate in both Ireland and the U.K is well above replacement levels. Add the Polish emigres birthrates versus the rate at home and the picture isnt as grim as first thought. Maybe better child benefit rates, better childcare facilities provided by the state and more stringent maternity leave law etc. would encourage more births.

Especially when you compare it to other accession states like Lithuania and Latvia. Their relatively small populations, with high numbers of minorities, will see them be bred out of existence.

Poles are restless travellers, have always been. No matter how well things go in Poland, some Poles will always leave and try new opportunities abroad. The grass is always greener etc sayings are appropriate to describe this matter.

One could compare Poland to my country before Italia 90. A good showing could give the Poles a renewed confidence and could be the catalyst for a "Polish Tiger", if you will. More inward investment, a new found optimism and emigrants returning home as work is plentiful.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
23 Mar 2012  #20
Poland definitely needs more immigrants. It's not just to solve the population problem but Poland also needs multiculturalism

No we don't. We don't want become another UK with a lot oriental restaurants and pubs but no hardware shops.
Where buying a door lock is pain in the @$$ in the city with 200k inhabitants.
modafinil - | 418
23 Mar 2012  #21
Consider Greeks, they're buggered for the next couple of decades and some will want out. Spain and Portuguese too, if you want to keep it Catholic. Irish have a wanderlust you could do a swapsies.

Also make the gov should make it more viable for young couples to have children before you start to bring in others. Poles are breeding very fast in the UK.
Bieganski 17 | 901
23 Mar 2012  #22
Germany has retained a diversified market economy including a manufacturing base which still requires a good amount of human capital. This is in part why they have done better than some other countries during the recent economic troubles. But all economies run in cycles. What is beneficial today like the need for increased immigration to satisfy a growing labour market or counterbalance an older, graying populace makes no sense in other times. Although not pervasive the economies of today are still far more modernized than in the past. Businesses are always searching for ways to find efficiencies which nearly always translates into getting rid of expensive employees. This is still being done by finding cheaper sources of labour such as the young or immigrants or by outsourcing work to other countries. But efficiencies are also being found through more advanced computerization and mechanization too thus lessing the need for labour itself. America for instance has been struggling with its unemployment rate because such efficiencies were implemented by businesses. The recent economic declines in the developed world was an excellent opportunity for many business to get rid of their dead weight employees and not always replace them. If you hear that fewer people are claiming unemployment benefits it is not necessarily because they found a job. More and more it means they are no longer eligible to claim benefits and have simply given up looking for work. Often you can find some of their numbers re-emerge in retirement or medical disability figures.

Immigrants may bring with them motivation and a hard work ethic. If they are legal they are very likely to be paying taxes as well. But immigrants, unless they have amazing unequalled skills, are unlikely to be earning high wages and this tends to depress wages overall in sectors where they are largely hired. So with low wages you not only have an increased demand for cheaper goods because they are more affordable (and which are likely then to be imported from overseas) but you also have decreased tax revenues. Low wages also lead people to decide not to start a family or just have one or two children. Low wages creates further disparities in communities which result in social tensions and crimes both from and against immigrants. Overtime this leads to claims of exploitation and demands for higher wages and so by the time an immigrant or his descendants have finally assimilated in a new country with good wages they have become too expensive and the cycle starts all over again. Immigrants are also known for sending remittances back to relatives in their country of origin. In host countries like America remittances amount to tens of billions of dollars being sent back to other countries. El Salvador has so many of its people working in America that it has become dependent on remittances in its own economy and that is why it uses the US dollar for its own national currency. But this has not helped El Salvador improve its infrastructure or quality of life for its citizens that remain there. America's economy is not recovering like it has in the past and won't recover either from this sort of cheap immigration - legal or otherwise. That is why Poland needs to see the benefit of a smaller population with a more modern, efficient, diversified and sustainable economy so it can better withstand economic swings. This would give Poles less of a need to seek work elsewhere and give Poland less of a need to seek immigrants.

PS. Thank you for registering and participation in this thread, btw.

Thank you.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,860
23 Mar 2012  #23
Irish have a wanderlust you could do a swapsies.

Anyone who wants to leave has left for Canada, Australia or the UK.

They go were the media bigs up the most.

We still have 100,000s of Poles, mind!

Maybe a few will meet a girl during the 2012 championships and decide to stick around.
pip 10 | 1,661
23 Mar 2012  #24
they don't need anybody to immigrate here. Plenty of countries are doing fine with minimum people. Poland needs to revamp its social systems in order to accommodate those that live here.
southern 75 | 7,097
23 Mar 2012  #25
The best immigrants for Poland are Ukrainians,Belarussians and maybe some eastern Germans.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
23 Mar 2012  #26
With the Earth's total human population currently around a staggering 7 billion and growing the question shouldn't be about importing more immigrants or having more children just to give job security to the likes of teachers and politicians who rely on large numbers of people for their own existence.

Well said.

they don't need anybody to immigrate here. Plenty of countries are doing fine with minimum people. Poland needs to revamp its social systems in order to accommodate those that live here.

Well said.Relying on other nationalities to secure your system, your culture and your values is the surest way to losing your system, your culture and your values.

The multiculturalism that has come into existence in the west has been perverted and subverted to increase Government Involvement in People's Private Lives.
The social problems that have been plaguing western nations are directly linked to Government initiatives to create Social and Cultural awareness and tolerance. Invite that into a country and you can look forward to new Social Laws banning this and that and forcing you to accept this and that and pretty soon you will have a lovely system like in:

American schools where holidays will be reduced to nothing, St. Patrick's day was renamed O'Green Day and all religious and historical significance was removed from it.

France where African men have openly claimed, as part of their defence, they raped white women as revenge for the Racism those men have felt.

UK where Muslim African women get only a suspended sentence despite beating the p*ss out of a white woman while uttering racist comments, meanwhile a white woman is

jailed for saying something racist.
Canada where the fcuk do I begin with how "ready" teachers and social workers are to get involved in children's lives.

IN EVERY nation that has embraced it, Multi-Culturalism has brought Much More Government Involvement into Your Private Life and all in the name of Promoting Tolerance and Diversity. It's great for big business, bad for communities and provides easy ways to divide people on issues.
grubas 12 | 1,391
23 Mar 2012  #27
I suppose Poland needs more foreign children as Polesses don`t want to breed as they used to in the past.

Poland doesn't need any ******* immigrants.What Poland needs is a decent pro economic growth policy.It not that Poles don't want to breed they simply can't afford it in this sad,anti citizen,opressive country.You need to fight the cause of the problem and inviting here bunch of semi civilized immigrants is not any solution.To hell with that and all who advocate it.
THE HITMAN - | 236
23 Mar 2012  #28
Which nationalities would you recommend for Poland?

You already have a half germanic population, then a high percentage is genealogically Scottish, Irish, English, etc.
There already exists multi- culturalism, so your real question should be ' why aren,t Poles breeding ".
Simple answer. Look at the politics.

What should Poland do to successfully compete in the immigration market and attract more than other countries?

Elect a leader with brains.
pip 10 | 1,661
23 Mar 2012  #29
personally, I like living in a multicultural country- but I don't think it is the answer for Poland.
Wedle 16 | 496
23 Mar 2012  #30
The problem is that the Polish nation will cease on its own if it is not backed up by immigrants

If promoted correctly Poland could become a European option for disgruntled Western Europeans emigrates. Poland does and can have a good draw, most foreigners who live in Poland do actually enjoy the country and like the people. The flip-side is dealing with a antiquated system that needs a serious overhaul, by importing western european immigrants, especially pro's in their 40's with kids the government must be prepared to give incentives for wealthy individuals to come here and create jobs..

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