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Why are Muslims seen as a deterrent to Poland?



spiritus 67 | 617    
28 Feb 2017  #91

Here are those attacks carried out by just one terrorist organisation most of the members of which were baptised as Catholics:

Oh come on Harry ! What kind of a weak assed argument is that ? I'm sorry and this isn't a personal attack on you but my patience has been exhausted with people who deny that there are serious problems with the Islamification of the West and I am disappointed with your response.

Let's break this down.....

ETA were a European terrorist group intent on seeking independance for the Basque region of Spain. For you to say that because the vast majority of them were baptised Catholic/Christians equates to the terrorist attack by muslim fanatics is just BS and it was touch and go as to whether I would even stoop low enough and waste time recognising the invalid point you were trying to make but then I though that if untruths are circulated enough times then there will always be other dumb people who begin to believe it............so here I am, the caped crusader of common sense :)

Muslim terrorists kill in the name of their religion-FACT. They kill because they are muslim not in spite of being muslim and that truth alone wipes out your argument comparing ETA to Islamic terrorists.

Harry and Lenka. Which countries do you live in ? I live here in the UK and if a person can't see what is happening then they are deluded or stupid or both.


OP johnny reb 14 | 2,265    
28 Feb 2017  #92

Looking back to the OP original question I must say that it wasn't well thought over question.

Being I am the OP I agree with you.
It was worded poorly.
Since however I have learned a whole lot about how and why the Polish feel about this subject.
It has become apparent that the Muslims invade the soft targets first.
Conservative Poland is not a soft target for many reasons.
Other countries treat Muslim migrants better on their welfare and government subsides then their own people.
Poland does not have a great welfare system to share.
Another reason is that Poland is 99% Christian which makes it tuff for a cult to get established.
Another reason is that the Polish don't like change.

why we would grant work permits

"We" ? You are not Polish, you are Scottish delph.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
1 Mar 2017  #93

Other countries treat Muslim migrants better on their welfare and government subsides then their own people.

Myth.

Another reason is that Poland is 99% Christian which makes it tuff for a cult to get established.

Myth. As we all know, less than 40% bother to do the minimum required of their religion.

Another reason is that the Polish don't like change.

Really? That would be why only one government has won two elections in a row since 1989, right?

Poland has an open door policy towards Muslims.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
1 Mar 2017  #94

less than 40%

That's the national figure. In some cities, particularly Warsaw, the figure is far far lower.

Poland has an open door policy towards Muslims.

Indeed. Several million have the right to live here and so far very few are interested in coming.
OP johnny reb 14 | 2,265    
1 Mar 2017  #95

Myth.

Sources please

Myth. As we all know, less than 40% bother to do the minimum required of their religion.

Typical Heathen response.
That is a Har myth as just because you don't go to church every Sunday doesn't mean you aren't a Christian Silly.

Really?

Yup REALLY, the Polish people are very traditional

so far very few are interested in coming.

Welfare doesn't pay enough in Poland like other Countries like Sweden & Germany do.
spiritus 67 | 617    
1 Mar 2017  #96

Other countries treat Muslim migrants better on their welfare and government subsides then their own people.Myth.

Actually, yes. This is not true. The welfare system treats everyone the same in the UK-it doesn't discriminate. There are obviously more non-Muslim Brits claiming benefits than muslims but.........

without any source to back it up I would imagine there is a disproportionate amount of women from the muslim community claiming benefits than there would normally be as women tend to stop work from their early twenties to have children.
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
1 Mar 2017  #97

Several million have the right to live here and so far very few are interested in coming.

Probably for the best. I honestly don't see the appeal of Poland for religiously inclined muslims (more secularly oriented ones can and do do well here).

But for a religious muslim, the most popular meat is pork (haram), people like to drink alcohol (haram), Polish women like to show their flesh in warm weather (haram), men and women enjoy casual social contacts with each other (haram), men and women shake hands (haram) etc etc etc. The country is one big mass of things that muslims are taught are immoral.
Marsupial - | 924    
1 Mar 2017  #98

All those ideas above are just bonkers.
spiritus 67 | 617    
1 Mar 2017  #99

But for a religious muslim, the most popular meat is pork (haram), people like to drink alcohol (haram)

Trust me. This does not discourage them. You can apply those obstacles to Holland, Sweden, UK and Germany
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
1 Mar 2017  #100

You can apply those obstacles to Holland, Sweden, UK and Germany

Yeah but those are rich countries, Poland? Not so much (I don't think of Poland as a poor country but it's not rich either).
Marsupial - | 924    
1 Mar 2017  #101

Yes Poland is in the middle still. Started poor. Needs a long time yet but under pis that won't happen.
Atch 13 | 1,845    
1 Mar 2017  #102

men and women shake hands (haram)

Yes, we saw a touch of that when I was teaching Muslim kids in Ireland. There was a three year old girl who was constantly saying 'haram', making hideous faces and pointing to other children's toys such as Barbie dolls or pencil cases with Dora the Explorer! I mean what one can find objectionable in Dora, I don't know. But anyway I simply told the mother that it had to stop, can't have her upsetting other children etc. And in fairness the mother apologised. But as the other teachers pointed out, where does a three year old get such an idea from, if not from her parents and home environment.

I also taught a little girl of about seven in a mixed class of boys and girls who wouldn't hold hands in games, like Ring a Rosy with any of the boys. I think she was Libyan if I remember correctly and her father wore the full gear if you get my drift, never saw him in Western clothes. He was doing a PHD and was only in Ireland until he completed his studies. She said her father had told her she must never touch any of the boys and that she was not allowed to play with them in the school yard in case they accidentally made contact. I spoke to her father and told him that although I wouldn't assign her a male partner in games, I couldn't guarantee that she wouldn't accidentally encounter one during the course of PE and I wasn't prepared to oversee it either. We had a bit of an argument about it but I told him that it wasn't my role as her teacher to uphold her family's religious beliefs, that it was a Catholic school and the religion followed was Catholicism, not Islam. I wasn't prepared to disrupt classes in any way to accomodate that.

The other time when I felt myself getting impatient was when I was handing out sweetie treats (yes I'm not a complete monster :)) and the Muslim kids would be peering at them suspiciously and then asking me about the ingredients in case there was any pork fat in them in the form of gelling agents. Occasionally they would refuse them 'just in case', ah well more for the Christians so some good came out of it :D
Harry 81 | 13,431    
1 Mar 2017  #103

economist

That article is about the actions of criminals, not state actions. By your 'logic' one could claim that because Polish people burn figures of Jews in public the Polish state treats Jews badly. So there's your first source dealt with, I wonder what else will jump off the page at us.

gatestoneinstitute

How surprising to see you quoting the Gatestone mob: they are one of the founders of the now very well nailed lie that there are 'no go' areas in Europe where Muslims prevent non-Muslims from entering. No doubt you believe them and Russia Today over people who live in those places.

theguardian

That article is about Christians not being allowed to use the word Allah to talk about their god; how do you think Polish Catholics would react to Muslims writing books in which Muhammad was named Jesus? And to quote from that article

The Herald editor, Father Lawrence Andrew, said the ruling "didn't touch on the fundamental rights of minorities"

You claim that the state of Malaysia "treat religious minorities like crap" but Father Lawrence Andrew says that minorities still have their fundamental rights; I wonder who might be telling the truth and why the other might not be.

Given that the reason that some people in Poland have a negative view of Muslims may well be other people tell such pointless lies about Muslims, wouldn't you say that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution?
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
1 Mar 2017  #104

That article is about the actions of criminals, not state actions.

I'm interested in practice, not theory. And despite what the laws say, being a religious minority in a country with a large muslim majority tends to svck azs.

lie that there are 'no go' areas in Europe where Muslims prevent non-Muslims from entering

Yeah, there are no problems whatsoever...

youtube.com/watch?v=4ePY25UPJWs

That article is about Christians not being allowed to use the word Allah to talk about their god

how do you think Polish Catholics would react to Muslims writing books in which Muhammad was named Jesus?

Are you that ignorant? The word allah (meaning god) has been used in Malay for centuries independent of religion. This is just like Maltese (whose speakers are all catholic). This is clearly a judicial attempt to limit religious freedom.

Why should courts become involved in questions of religious terminology anyway? that is obscene from a western viewpoint.

Why are you so eager to defend the indefensible?
Harry 81 | 13,431    
1 Mar 2017  #105

being a religious minority in a country with a large muslim majority tends to svck azs.

Being any minority in a country with a large majority tends to do that. Speak to non-white people about how much fun it is to be in Poland for a long time.

Yeah, there are no problems whatsoever...

There are problems in every country. There are parts of Warsaw I wouldn't like to spend long in after dark (mainly because they're sh!t rather than because they are that dangerous, provided you're white). But there are not any zones in Europe where Muslims prevent non-Muslims from entering, despite what the sources you claim to be reliable say.

Why should courts become involved in questions of religious terminology anyway? that is obscene from a western viewpoint.

Try calling the Virgin Mary a slut on Polish TV and see what happens.

Why are you so eager to defend the indefensible?

Why are you so eager to lie about Muslims and immigrants?
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
1 Mar 2017  #106

Try calling the Virgin Mary a slut on Polish TV and see what happens.

So.. you're siding with the court that Malaysian christians have no right to use the word "god"? Interesting.

But there are not any zones in Europe where Muslims prevent non-Muslims from entering, despite what the sources you claim to be reliable say

That was never a claim I made. On the other hand, are there neighborhoods (majority muslim) where the police have little control and where non-muslims face harrassment if they don't follow muslim norms. Would you deny that?

Why are you so eager to lie about Muslims and immigrants?

I dunno, why are you so eager to lie about Poles and Christians?
Ziemowit 8 | 2,637    
1 Mar 2017  #107

I'm interested in practice, not theory.

That's a very important distinction. In theory the communist regimes of Eastern Europe guaranteed all the freedoms and human rights to people, in practice ... well, everyone knows what the practice was.

Another example: in theory Harry says that people are equal and should be treated with respect, in practice he and his ilk go around the internet fora ganging up on people and in particular on those who are Polish and Christian ...
Harry 81 | 13,431    
1 Mar 2017  #108

you're siding with the court that Malaysian christians have no right to use the word "god"? Interesting.

How surprising that you are lying about what the court of a mainly Muslim country said. There was no ban on the word "god", only a ban on using the name for one god for another god. There is exactly the same ban in Poland: claim publicly that "Jesus" is "Satan" and see what happens.

That was never a claim I made.

No, you just support people who do make that claim.

On the other hand, are there neighborhoods (majority muslim) where the police have little control and where non-muslims face harrassment if they don't follow muslim norms. Would you deny that?

Yes, I would point that out as another of your lies about Muslims. Unlike you I have actually lived in a Muslim neighbourhood which some people claim is a 'no go' area: I never felt there was no control and I was never harassed for not following Muslim norms.

I dunno, why are you so eager to lie about Poles and Christians?

Your claim is just another in the series of lies you tell; if your claim had any truth to it, you'd be able to quote some of the lies you claim I tell, but the reality is that you can't and won't.

in theory Harry says that people are equal and should be treated with respect, in practice he and his ilk go around the internet fora ganging up on people and in particular on those who are Polish and Christian ...

Poor maf, one of the clearest signs that somebody has lost an argument is when 'Mo tries to derail the debate with yet more of his hallmark, i.e. off-topic ad hom trolling.
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
1 Mar 2017  #109

only a ban on using the name for one god for another god

So you don't realize that Allah and the Christian (and Jewish) God are supposed to be one and the same?

I have actually lived in a Muslim neighbourhood

How very nice for you!

I was never harassed for not following Muslim norms

didn't happen to you =/= it didn't happen to anyone else
Atch 13 | 1,845    
1 Mar 2017  #110

Yes, I noticed that too Maf! However, I'm afraid the pesky old Holy Trinity complicates matters a bit. For Muslims, Jesus is a prophet but not divine, for Jews He's not the Son of God, for Christians He makes up part of the whole. However all three religions would agree that there is only one Creator, regardless of what He's called. So yes, Harry could have phrased that better. He'll now continue to argue it until we're all blue in the face :))

There is exactly the same ban in Poland: claim publicly that "Jesus" is "Satan" and see what happens.

I don't think there's a specific ban on calling Jesus Satan now Harry is there. Just a general blasphemy law that would cover it. Anyway it's hardly a fair comparison.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
1 Mar 2017  #111

I don't think there's a specific ban on calling Jesus Satan

You're right, the ban in Malaysia is more specific than that in Poland, which would suggest that Poland has less freedom in that respect than Malaysia.

didn't happen to you =/= it didn't happen to anyone else

Didn't happen to me, didn't happen to anybody who lived in the same house as me, didn't happen to anybody who visited me, didn't happen to anybody who visited anybody who visited the people who lived with me, didn't happen to anybody I know who wasn't Muslim and lived in the same area.
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
1 Mar 2017  #112

which would suggest that Poland has less freedom in that respect than Malaysia.

I think you sprained something during those gymnastics.

A better analogy to the Malaysian ban would be a ban on Jewish people using the word Bóg since it refers to the Christian god and not the Jewish god.
spiritus 67 | 617    
1 Mar 2017  #113

Let's get back to the OP's original questions:-

Would Poland soon lose the society that they now enjoy because of the demands that the Muslims have made in other countries that they have immigrated to ?

The question is something of a paradox. Muslims have no desire to settle in Poland in any numbers as the environment is hostile to them. If they started to arrive in Poland in numbers then it would be as a result of a change in government that would have to be openly more welcome towards them.

If a large Muslim population was just injected into Polish society today then I don't think they would stay long.

However, I agree with the suggestion within the question that muslims who settle in countries that are not openly hostile towards them do place demands on the host nation and do threaten the long term identity of that nation.

How tolerant would the Polish people be to these demands and changes forced upon them ?

Not very tolerant at all. Poland is more xenophobic than many western countries and is not afraid to show it. Having said that, many westerners are amazed at how tolerant and compliant their own countries have become in allowing rampant islamification of certain areas both geographically, culturally and socially.

Would Muslim's Islamic immigration destroy Polands Christian culture ?

Again it would depend on theory that Poland would at some time become attractive for muslims to settle. Islam cannot be held responsible for the decline in Christian culture (if by that you mean church attendance). People are turning their backs on the church without the help of any outside influence. I know that in the UK people complain about the large number of mosques in towns and cities and at the same time complain that churches are closing down yet these same people have no desire to attend church themselves so I can only conclude that they are blind to the real reasons for the decline of Christian faith and culture.

As Poland sees what is happening in other countries with large Muslim immigration are they ready for the negative consequences in their country ?

Undoubtedly yes. Even countries that host large numbers of muslims are becoming acutely aware of the problem that further immigration can cause.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
1 Mar 2017  #114

However, I agree with the suggestion within the question that muslims who settle in countries that are not openly hostile towards them do place demands on the host nation and do threaten the long term identity of that nation.

The same could be said for most nationalities. The British were/are notorious for doing this, and the Poles were causing plenty of trouble with local Brits in some areas. Generally speaking, when you allow minorities of *any* ethnicity/nationality to congregate in an area, they tend to place demands and threaten the identity of the nation - at least the vague, fuzzy sense of "nation" anyway.

We even saw it in the Scottish independence referendum, when English people directly interfered in the campaign.
spiritus 67 | 617    
1 Mar 2017  #115

I disagree. I can't think of any wave of immigrants where there was the equivalent of Sharia law. Most stories of immigration follow a similar pattern. The first generation come, settle, work, have kids. Second generation do the same but will often marry outside of their race/creed.

Muslims are different. As already mentioned, Sharia law, Halal meat (please don't compare to kosher as the Jewish people have never pressured restaurants and food chains to only sell kosher), a disproportionate number of mosques on "every street corner" (or at least prayer rooms or "community centres" that then become mosques), the lack of any type of affinity to the host nation, sympathy for radicals, claims that the majority are peaceful yet the majority remain very quiet when we need them to condone violence committed in their religion's name......the list goes on.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
1 Mar 2017  #116

I can't think of any wave of immigrants where there was the equivalent of Sharia law.

The Jewish community in the UK has their own courts, and I think other minorities have them too. Orthodox Jews were causing trouble in London not so long ago, and they've imposed segregation on public transport in some city in New York State too.

Not to mention the attack by Polish "nationalists" on a Jewish picnic in London.

claims that the majority are peaceful yet the majority remain very quiet when we need them to condone violence committed in their religion's name

Sigh. I keep pointing this out, but this is true for *every* country. Look at the early 1990's when the IRA were bombing the British mainland - did you see Irish Catholics protesting against it? Of course not. What about ETA's reign of terror in the Basque Country? Did you see the Basque people protesting?
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,366    
1 Mar 2017  #117

The Jewish community in the UK has their own courts,

Do they really? and what would 'the Jewish community in the UK' be exactly then? and what 'trouble' were Jews causing in London?
Harry 81 | 13,431    
1 Mar 2017  #118

Do they really?

Yes, from memory the oldest one dates back to the early eighteenth century.
Lyzko 17 | 3,677    
1 Mar 2017  #119

Right. It's known as the 'Bet Din', and is traditionally used to settle purely domestic disputes etc. among the Ultra-Orthodox, Chasidim, and Satmar, mostly, all of whom basically distrust "outsiders" to ejudicate legal matters:-)
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,366    
1 Mar 2017  #120

well some small orthodox courts dont over-ride national law. not sure why Delph is driveling about it.
And it's 'adjudicate'..:) Just saying. I wouldn't normally bother being so pedantic, but I will make an exception for you L. It might only be one letter wrong but I find it worrying when a self appointed language expert demonstrates a total non-grasp of important words.




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