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Marketing Speak or mumbo jumbo talk from Poland?


Barney 16 | 1,658
28 Jun 2011 #1
Moving forward robustly...has this kind of talk taken root in Poland?

Some examples of Polish mumbo jumbo would be appreciated.
alexw68
28 Jun 2011 #2
Come on people!

Leverage your core competencies! Ensure your deliverables exceed client expectation in a best-of-breed stylee! Implement multiplatform diversity across key geographies!

My guess is that this only happens in the multinationals and in English at that. Here politicians and urzędnicy seem to have the monopoly on bollocks.

But hey, prove me wrong, folks :)
OP Barney 16 | 1,658
28 Jun 2011 #3
My guess is that this only happens in the multinationals and in English at that. Here politicians and urzędnicy seem to have the monopoly on bollocks.

It's the political class I had in mind babbling meaningless phrases which if pared consist of nothing.

On the other hand we still have Corporate BS
Example BS Generator:
andrewdavidson.com/gibberish/?companyname=Polish+Forums
boletus 30 | 1,361
28 Jun 2011 #4
Oh, well, Poland has a long tradition of "mowa trawa" - lterally "speech grass". According to Mega-dictionary of synonyms and antonyms, megaslownik.pl/slownik/synonimy_antonimy/10110,mowa+trawa

noun mowa trawa
synonyms: gadka szmatka (spiel rag), głodne kawałki (hungry pieces), kit (a putty), pustosłowie (prolixity, bunkum)

According to "Słownik slangu", Slang Dictionary,
univ.gda.pl/slang/hasla/m/mowatraw.html
mowa-trawa:
1. Talking about things trivial, irrelevant, or meaningless.Trivial or platitudinous talk, nonsense
2. Exclamation expressing disbelief or doubt. An exclamation of incredulity or disbelief

Perhaps this article will shed more light on "mowa-trawa", a.k.a. "nowo-mowa" (new speech).
Translated from: wroclaw.gazeta.pl/wroclaw/1,41263,2727742.html

Speech-Grass
by bm, 2005-05-24

The greatest achievement of socialist surgery? "A member of the extended arm on the forehead" - laughed the streets mocking the party newspeak.

[Translation:
"członek" = a member, a communist party member. In Polish slang it also mean a penis.
" z ramienia" = on behalf (of the Party), but literally "from the arm"
"na czele", literally "in front of", "leading" but sound like "na czole" = on the forehead]

The authority supported the "zdrowy trzon społeczeństwa" ("healthy core of society") - meaning passive and submissive and the "core" "consolidated the achievements of Polish People's Republic" (here you add whatever you want). The views were divided into "right views" and "ideological subversion" or "the penetration of enemy centers" (those penetrating were dissatisfied with the achievements of Polish People's Republic). Communist Party was "the guiding force of the nation" and its officers were acting "on behalf".

There were no strikes, only a "temporary interruption of work", being the work of "warchołów i popłuczyn reakcji" ("troublemakers and washings from reactionaries.") The ruling party was called "The Workers' Party" (although it has never represented the interests of workers), and mostly dealt with the "construction of socialism" (as in the joke - "In today's meeting we have two points to deal with: the construction of a barn and construction of socialism - says the secretary. - Because we have neither bricks nor wood, we will move to the second point now "). Edward Gierek read at the Seventh Party Congress of Communist Party in 1975 a paper entitled "For further dynamic development of socialist construction, for higher quality of work and living conditions of the nation."

Television was supposed to apply only "positive criticism" and "to strengthen public confidence in the Party and people's power". It also was tasked with education of young people. In this area, it was successful. In winter of year 1975, Wroclaw's teens - inspired by the TV program "Invisible Hand" ("We secretly help the adults") - drained the expensive antifreeze from the city buses.

Language monsters proliferated at an alarming rate in other areas of life. Lamps disappeared, replaced by "wisiska" (hangers? - I never heard this, boletus), sieves turned into "przeciski"(squeezes), and "kapcie" (slippers) were "wsuwki" (pushings?). The nation also learned a definition of sweeping: "shifting layers of material with elastic elements (brush, sweepings)." In the stores more and more goods "luxury" items appeared. A columnist of "Wroclaw's Evening" marveled that he once ate only "popular" products, and now had to switch to "Delicatessen" and "luxurious" items.

Advertisement made use of strange language. They mostly "recommended a range", as in: "Regional Trade Shoe Trade Company, Wroclaw, ul. Świdnicka 53, recommends a wide range of footwear, leather goods and furs."

Sometimes they "recommended sales", as in: "Motozbyt at Kamienna Street recommends sales of cars, motorcycles, mopeds."

Advertising announcements often appealed to local patriotism: "Residents of Wroclaw buy furniture in retail stores of Regional Enterprise of Furniture Trade". They sometimes refered to the heroic past: "The history of the company [MPK - BM] is closely connected with the history of the liberated Wroclaw. Our public transport carries annually 282 357 000 passengers. We make 40 820 000 coach-kilometers." A strong argument was the experience related to number of work years - "Wrocław Winery, 17 Wiwulski St, started its wine production in 1949."

Imitation of western slogans sounded awkwardly, but it certainly was better than to dazzle with "wozokilometry" (caoch-kilometers):
"Chcesz wyglądać modnie - uszyj u nas spodnie" ("Do you want to look fashionable - tailor you pants here" - enticed Polmoda (they had their workspops at Jedność Narodowa and Stawowa).
OP Barney 16 | 1,658
28 Jun 2011 #5
Boletus

Thank you very much you explained that piece very well.

There were no strikes, only a "temporary interruption of work"

I like that.

You sort of hit the nail on the head :)
Polonius3 990 | 12,349
29 Jun 2011 #6
The views were divided into "right views" and "ideological subversion"

Nothing ever really changes. The French have a good saying: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose,
The commie regime has come and gone, but only the costumes have changed: today's 'right views' are those of 'political correctness' and 'ideological diversion' is defined by the PC crowd as the alleged intolerance, bigotry and hate speech of those who oppose it.
OP Barney 16 | 1,658
29 Jun 2011 #7
today's 'right views' are those of 'political correctness' and 'ideological diversion' is defined by the PC crowd as the alleged intolerance, bigotry and hate speech of those who oppose it.

Intolerance, bigotry and hate speech is either out and out offensive or framed in a load of pseudo babble.

Its the babble that I'm interested in.

The ETA for a paradigm shift to those who are differently opined is either a bottom up or top down perfect storm of a solution driven, state of the art real time dynamic.
alexw68
29 Jun 2011 #8
The ETA for a paradigm shift to those who are differently opined is either a bottom up or top down perfect storm of a solution driven, state of the art real time dynamic.

I think I need a change of underwear.
OP Barney 16 | 1,658
29 Jun 2011 #9
How about running them up the flagpole and see if they stick:)
boletus 30 | 1,361
29 Jun 2011 #10
Polonius is right stressing the fact that - even though the political systems and slogans have changed - there still remains a need and desire to wrap the most trivial concepts in a pompous, absolutely in-comprehensive language. One of my friends is afflicted by this: I dread reading his emails, although I cherish his company and eye-to-eye conversation. Thank you Barney for starting this topic, which is dear to my heart, even though I am no longer sure - after reading few pearls here - that I am still on topic. :-)

On 2011-06-21, at 7.24 a.m. Ms. Beata Szydło, Vice President of PiS - the largest opposition party in Poland - was interviewed in TOK FM radio by Dominika Wielowiejska. Ms. Szydło had nothing to say for sixteen minutes. Absolutely nothing.

Would you qualify the following outbursts of Ms. Beata Szydło as:
a. mowa-trawa (talk about grass growing)
b. polityczny bełkot (political gibberish)
c. wodolejstwo (waffle, water spouting)
d. drowning woman grasping a straw, and the straw was ... "THE program"

I loosely transcribed and translated only the first of seven or eight subjects raised by the interviewer. Her response to the remaining ones is equally uninformative.

DW: Mr. Kaczyński said that PO (Citizen Platform Party) defends the establishment of Round Table and their interests. Can you give a concrete example of such a defense?

BS: I think the best interpretation of the speech is to ask the author.
[Check, a politician's ABC, good way to deflect the direct questions.]

DW: J. Kaczyński did not want to come here, so I have to ask you about it. You sat beside him, at the recent conference, where your outlined your program ...

BS: In this program some directions are shown, which PiS considers most important to implement and to remove, so to speak, many decisions that have been taken in the last four years ... in many spheres of national life - social, economic, economical ....
One can talk about this subject a lot, but it is best to reach for our study. There are important things in it and it would be good to talk about them factually, because ... such sarcasm, such sarcastic statements: "what is this program that has nothing in there" ...
I think that during past two days, many critics and analysts, who have spoken out against it, have not read it. I think that focusing on these very important things ..

DW: This was an important statement of you leader; I would not ignore what Jaroslaw Kaczynski has said ...

BS: I do not want to comment on it, but - during his entire speech - Mr. Kaczyński paid close attention to certain elements included in our program...

And I think that everyone agrees that some changes have to be made in functioning and operating of certain aspects of public life that harm development of Poland. So I think that we can talk about this program and what has to be done in Poland over the next four years, and I think this is worthy to concentrate upon - to talk about concrete details...

For your entertainment, I am attaching another translation - this time from a Nonsense Encyclopedia
Translated from:
bezsensopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bełkot
Nonsense-opia, Humorous Encyclopedia

Gibberish, babble - statement that does not hold water. This is defined as slurred speech or words difficult / impossible to understand. Gibberish is found in many places, but in different forms. It is both widely used by primitive persons, and educated ones; e.g., some philosophers.
Despite everything, however, there are areas where there is very little gibberish. An example of this can be mathematics, where everything has to stick to the inviolable rules of logic. Some see it as a disadvantage, however, because it reduces their field of action (if you have not learned it and you do not understand it, you will not solve it when taking a test).

Closely related to gibberish is waffle, "water spouting". While waffle hides deficiencies of knowledge by using excess of words the gibberish does it via lack of logic.

Types of gibberish
+ Classical
(...)
+ School-boy
(...)
+ Artistic
(...)
+ Humorous

+ Pseudoscientific gibberish - in that kind of gibberish large amounts of difficult words and complex concepts are used for interpretation of various phenomena. A typical use of scientific gibberish is to render a text in order to look smarter and more professional. It is often used by those who have only a vague idea about their field of expertise. The biggest archive of pseudoscientific gibberish is Wikipedia.

+ Philosophical gibberish - an earnest attempt to explain everything by illogical methods and proving that nothing is like it is. Philosophical gibberish has evolved in two directions: Existential and (non) Logical. The existential philosophical gibberish is an incessant search for meaning of life, usually ending with the conclusion that the meaning of life does not exist or it is just sex. Philosophical (non) logical gibberish is putting forward strange theses of the kind whether "a white horse is not a horse", and stranger yet - it attempts proving them.

+ Political gibberish - statements of some politicians, which are characterized by exalting their opinions over the laws of logic. Thanks to the political gibberish we find that [insert here a name of any politician] is responsible for all evil in the world, he is a fascist and he needs to be burnt at stake. Political gibberish does not have to stick to logic. Certain people present any nonsense in their favor. Political gibberish is often related to a secondary gibberish, which occurs when a person says some trash first, an then tries to forcefully prove it - not always following the laws of logic.

mafketis 37 | 10,880
29 Jun 2011 #11
If you're talking about contentless (or fatuous sentiments) dressed up to sound either dynamic or trendy or formal then the communist period had lots and lots and lots of examples.

AFAIK there isn't so much reliance on business-speak in Poland. Business and working culture is very different from the US and Poles generally aren't prone to talk about the slog to make more money in glowing inspirational terms. What there is is usually directly translated from English and while it sounds dreadful (there's no way to say 'we will move forward robustly' in Polish and maintain your dignity) it's not really indigenous.

Academic speak in Poland and legalese can be pretty awful as is the language of laws (as in the language used to formulate laws) where nobody cares much about intelligibility or logic or consistency so that many laws are obscure and hard to interpret. Those wanting to legalize long stays in Poland often have problems because of pretentious (and unclear) wording that tends to be interpreted differently by different local authorities. But most of it doesn't translate in funny ways (unlike commie jargon which can be hilarious in its awfulness).
Polonius3 990 | 12,349
29 Jun 2011 #12
One category of mumbo-jumbo are neologisms, popularly referred to as buzz-words. These are the trendy 'in' terms, slogans and phrases which are widely accepted uncritically at face value but often do not stand up to analysis.

These include 'hate speech' (anyone who opposes what you stand for in forceful language can be accused of this). Another is 'you can be whatever you want to be.' Nice and catchy, but the NBA hasn't been accepting too many midgets these days.

And then there's 'consenting adults'. As long as they consent they are free to do anything and no-one has a right to criticise them. What if they drench a cat with petrol and set it ablaze? Another is 'anything goes'. Again sounds good, but if anything went then there'd be no need of parliaments, laws, rules, traffic regulations... There is also racist, fascist, bigot, anti-Semite, homophobe, etc. which are are rely defined but effectively used to silence opposing opinions regardless of whether they actually apply.

The reason these and similar buzz-words enjoy wide support is that few people stop to think them through and simply go with the flow and mindlessly repeat them.
OP Barney 16 | 1,658
29 Jun 2011 #13
Thank you Barney for starting this topic, which is dear to my heart, even though I am no longer sure - after reading few pearls here - that I am still on topic. :-)

I read How Mumbo-Jumbo Conquered the World by Francis Wheen a few years ago.

Certainly, rationality is beleaguered these days. This is one of the last major newspapers in the country not to publish a horoscope. Wheen recalls how he once sneered in his Observer column at the Sunday Times for introducing one. "You can guess the sequel," he says. But non-science, nonsense, the elevation of emotion over fact, is on the rise, whether it's the extraordinary faith in homeopathy or the voodoo economics of the neoliberal right or the healing power of crystals. To read here of Tony and Cherie Blair's rebirthing experience in a Mexican mud bath in 2001 is to be torn between contempt and hilarity.

guardian.co.uk/books/2004/oct/16/society

Polonius is right stressing the fact that - even though the political systems and slogans have changed - there still remains a need and desire to wrap the most trivial concepts in a pompous, absolutely in-comprehensive language.

Yes he is correct here.

Edit

there's no way to say 'we will move forward robustly' in Polish and maintain your dignity

Now that made me smile.
alexw68
29 Jun 2011 #14
The reason these and similar buzz-words enjoy wide support is that few people stop to think them through and simply go with the flow and mindlessly repeat them.

How very true.

a tylko popchałtura ogłupia i barbaryzuje...
Komercjalizacja czy tabloidyzacja ogarnia chyba każdą dziedzinę życia...


Sound familiar?

English, please.
Polonius3 990 | 12,349
29 Jun 2011 #15
You'll note that many are my own original creations and are hardly the bywords you hear in the media all day.
alexw68
29 Jun 2011 #16
You'll note that many are my own original creations

Hardly. Even if they were, the style is obfuscatory and pseudotechnical. (Oops, now you've got me doing it)

English, please.

Under normal circumstances, yes, of course. But the OP was looking for examples of the phenomenon in Polish. Seems odd that s/he should be prevented from seeing an example. The rule is maybe a little inflexible here?
Llamatic - | 140
29 Jun 2011 #17
Yep. Always the Left playing word games...

There is also racist, fascist, bigot, anti-Semite, homophobe, etc. which are arerely defined but effectively used to silence opposing opinions regardless of whether they actually apply.The reason these and similar buzz-words enjoy wide support is that few people stop to think them through and simply go with the flow and mindlessly repeat them.

Yep. Keep it simple for the idiots and keep repeating. Wasn't this the Nazi motto?

Come on people! Leverage your core competencies! Ensure your deliverables exceed client expectation in a best-of-breed stylee! Implement multiplatform diversity across key geographies!

Lol. This was funny.
Polonius3 990 | 12,349
29 Jun 2011 #18
What about fillers used to stall for time and help collect one's thoughts?
Let me put it this way...
This is how I see that problem...
It all depends how you approach it...
That's a good question, I'm glad you asked (but to himself the politician thinks: 'You bloody sod!)

In communist Poland someone interviewed on TV would often start with:
Jak na dzień dzisiejszy (As of today)...
Other intros might include:
Powiem tak (I'll say it this way)...
Od czego tu zacząć? (Where do I start?)
Przede wszystkim, należy podkreślić, że wszystko zależy od konkretnych uwarunkowań (First and foremost, it should be emphasised that it all depends on the specific conditions)...
boletus 30 | 1,361
29 Jun 2011 #19
Hot news, about two explosions in Krakow today. Still on topic, and sort of funny. A short interview with a police expert:

It looks like it was a homemade explosive, [actually filled with nails, pins, and other elements - as described by a reporter] but it does not look as if someone deliberately did this.

The man might have been first time on camera, so he staring blabbing.. What he really wanted to say was: it was not Al-Kaida.

Museum of IV RP: Quick Guide to Erudition

[I am sure similar examples of Orwellian new-speak can be easily found at both ends of the political spectrum in Poland. But the speeches of Chairman Kaczyński present extremely fitting examples of bombastic, hardly comprehensible, style.]

The government of Donald Tusk is not devoid of political ambitions. On the contrary, the ambitions are there, and they are great: to disintegrate the society by undermining inter-group, inter-generational and inter-regional solidarity; to disintegrate the nation by smashing the education system, cultural policy - including the historical one - and public media, and finally to disintegrate the state by elimination of, de facto, its unitary character and subjecting it, at different levels, to the influence of networks of external decision-making centers. This is, of course, a camouflaged plan, referring to mystified values ​and particular interests or simply to individualistically understood utilitarianism, but actually quite transparent and pointed both against the interests of the community and the individual interests of the vast majority of Poles.

In this short, yet extremely brilliant paragraph, Jarosław Kaczyński boldly presented the following terms and expressions - unusually apt and of striking beauty - which the Museum of IV RP is happy to add to its carefully nurtured and proudly guarded thesaurus of national language:

* de facto
* to disintegrate
* individualistically understood
* camouflaged plan
* particular interests
* unitary character
* utilitarianism
* mystified values
Add to it the remaining phrases, which are taken from just one speech of Jarosław Kaczyński, and which has already entered into the pantheon of the world's best talk of all time and has become an undeniable canon of modern philosophical erudition:

* to abstract
* differentiation of civil rights
* inherently negative traits
* legal impossibilism
* confusing situation
* modus operandi
* pacification
* paradigm
* petrification
* predilection
* restoration
* semiotics
* social stratification

Now, having been armed with this brilliant thesaurus, a diligent student can easily construct random speeches a'la Chairman Kaczyński:

Our camouflaged aim is a pacification of mad attacks from the nation's enemies, whose inherently negative feature is the use of the paradigm of over-reality for the disintegration of the unitary nature of the Fourth Republic, restoration of the System and the grey sphere of corporations and networks, as well as for introduction and petrification of the social stratification phenomenon, resulting from the activities of financiers, oligarchs and rich, supported by the entire squads of liberal journalists from hostile media, and serving to lead the public into the unprecedented disadvantageous and confusing situation, with characteristic elements of utilitarianism.

Unfortunately, the widespread de facto application of this powerful wavefront of semantic abuses, regular attempts of subversions and referral by the lying-elite to legal permanent impossibilism, mystified values and individualistically understood particular interests, as well as the use by certain powers, the unusually visible and obviously obvious outrageous differentiation of civil rights and creation of - by completely abstracting from the facts - a semiotic image of IV RP, combined with a totally deceptive description of the activities of the Party, surprisingly often prevents application, in this area, of the modus operandi resulting from natural predilection of Poles.
Wroclaw Boy
11 Jun 2015 #20
"Marketing Speak or mumbo jumbo talk from Poland?"

What the hell kind of title is that?

"marketing speak' ! 'Mumbo Jumbo' !
OP Barney 16 | 1,658
11 Jun 2015 #21
Marketing speak or Mumbo jumbo is the kind of language that has become increasingly popular among those facinated by pseudo intellectual pursuits, it can be identified by the use of both hackneyed and meaningless phrases.

I wondered if this ridiculous phenomon had taken root in Poland.
Lyzko 45 | 9,513
11 Jun 2015 #22
Gibberish knows no national or linguistic boundries, people! All that is necessary for psychobabble to further take root is for the passive out there to keep doing less than nothing about it:-)

lol


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