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Lack of human rights in Poland?


human
1 Dec 2013  #1
The last 3 days has made me wonder what kind of world we are living in right now ?? Police of any country are created to protect but unfortunately it is not always then case. One would think the corruption is only seen or heard in 3rd world country.

28nov, more than 200 Italian football fans from Lazio club were arrested in Warsaw. Many of them are family with children and some were handicapp. All these fans travel far to support their team but ended up being surround by Polish police thinking that they were terriorst. Many were held for more than 48 hrs without being allow to make a simple phone call to inform their families about their condition.

After 48hrs, most of them were release with a so call trail before some so call judge who sentence their release with fines between 50-300euro each. Tell me what can of crime can a 5 year old child committ except for crying in shock and fear this harmless child is being held by police with guns.

This is pure senseless arrest of innocent people and a true voliation of human rights. It makes me wonder are we in Europe ? Is Poland part of Europe or are we in some 3rd world country where woman and children and handicapp are treated like dirt?

The Italian Government were again slow to act to protect their citizen from being voliated this way. This should have been taken seriously from the begining as what this fans had been through can shock and damage them mentally forever.

Then Polish law is a joke. People are being but on trial without evidence and are convicted based on words. More than 22 Lazio fans has been condemm to 3months-2years jail because there were singing on the street. Seems that public singing is not allow in Poland so there were arrested.Of course there was resistance and 3 boys throw stones at police but can the police show or demostrate where/what was damage and if any Polish citizen was injured ?

This whole episode is a big scandal. It just show how inefficient and corrupted the Polish Government and Police is. I hope some international bodies like the Human Rights Group and UEFA cup will investigate this scandal and shocking act. I believe these 200 or so Italian Lazio fans deserve their justice and the Polish Police & Government should be ashame of their inhuman act.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #2
I get the idea that because a number of Legia fans were arrested in Rome, the Polish police decided to round up and charge an equal number of Lazio supporters in Warsaw. Don't seriously expect justice and fairness.
Maybe 12 | 409
1 Dec 2013  #3
Police of any country are created to protect

Yeah, protect the Powers that Be.
Kowalski 7 | 621
2 Dec 2013  #4
just one Police car got some damage ...but why would you take an axe along for a football game is beyond me..

kontakt24.tvn24.pl/temat,przesluchuja-149-kibicow-lazio-atakowali-policje-kamieniami-i-slupkami,107133,html?categoryId=496
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #5
Why Lazio supporters would appear to have been carrying common kitchen knives is beyond me.

Furthermore, the video of the 'attacks' is hardly clear.
Kowalski 7 | 621
2 Dec 2013  #6
Like, say me ..I often go to see Pogon Szczecin with a kitchen knife. Clear enough to see folks been throwing something into police car escorting them to the stadium.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #7
It isn't clear at all.

And the Polish police must be pretty pathetic if they feel threatened by small kitchen knives.

They'd find a bigger 'arsenal' if they raided my Granny's flat.
Kowalski 7 | 621
2 Dec 2013  #8
dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2302552/Paolo-D i-Canio-Lazio-Ultras-feared-Italy.html

Stabbings among supporters are an all-too-regular occurrence
Ironside 48 | 9,704
2 Dec 2013  #9
I get the idea that because a number of Legia fans were arrested in Rome, the Polish police decided to round up and charge an equal number of Lazio supporters in Warsaw. Don't seriously expect justice and fairness.

Any links or evidence or just your well funded (on prejudice) suspicion.

And the Polish police must be pretty pathetic if they feel threatened by small kitchen knives.

I'm sure that if you would have been stabbed repeatedly in your guts with a small kitchen knife you would just laugh it off.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #10
szczecinianin:
I get the idea that because a number of Legia fans were arrested in Rome, the Polish police decided to round up and charge an equal number of Lazio supporters in Warsaw. Don't seriously expect justice and fairness.

Any links or evidence or just your well funded (on prejudice) suspicion.

I'd like to see the evidence of their having done anything wrong.

Nothing conclusive has been filmed or photographed.

There must have been scores of photographers in Warsaw looking for some great action pictures.

I'm sure that if you would have been stabbed repeatedly in your guts with a small kitchen knife you would just laugh it off.

I most probably would.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
2 Dec 2013  #11
I'd like to see the evidence of their having done anything wrong.

You don't know that. At worst they have been treated in the same way Polish soccer fans are being treated.

I most probably would.

Bless you.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 Dec 2013  #12
I'd like to see the evidence of their having done anything wrong.

Nothing conclusive has been filmed or photographed.

There must have been scores of photographers in Warsaw looking for some great action pictures.

I'm sure that if you would have been stabbed repeatedly in your guts with a small kitchen knife you would just laugh it off.

I most probably would.

The rest of the world takes a different view that rioting gangs armed with knives, axes and throwing stones can be collectively punished in the harshest manner.

If the police had shot dead a few of these thugs I'd laugh about it, so we do have something in common - humour .

Go to a foreign country and commit a violent crime and you lose all rights.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #13
You don't know that. At worst they have been treated in the same way Polish soccer fans are being treated.

What do you mean, "I don't know that."

If there's evidence of their misbehaving, then let's see it.

These days, everyone has access to camera in their mobile phone, and there are professional photographers present who would like to make some money from a good picture.

The so-called monitoring camera film shows nothing conclusive whatsoever. Much of the 'arsenal' of weapons turns out to be ordinary kitchen knives.

The rest of the world takes a different view that rioting gangs armed with knives, axes and throwing stones can be collectively punished in the harshest manner.

If the police had shot dead a few of these thugs I'd laugh about it, so we do have something in common - humour .

Go to a foreign country and commit a violent crime and you lose all rights.

Brilliant, Peter, mate.

And if you don't do any of the above, do you lose all your rights as well?
Ironside 48 | 9,704
2 Dec 2013  #14
Much of the 'arsenal' of weapons turns out to be ordinary kitchen knives.

So? You are working under misapprehension that an ordinary kitchen knife cannot be used with a deadly efficiency to kill people.

What do you mean, "I don't know that."

I mean that Polish police doesn't answer to you and doesn't have to present you with a evidence against foreign soccer fans.
Did Italian diplomacy intervene? If not you have no case just your guess work. Anyway as I said worst they have been treated in the same way Polish soccer fans are being treated. In fact you better have proof for your claims that such an action has been retaliation for the treatment Polish soccer fans received from the Italian police.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 Dec 2013  #15
And if you don't do any of the above, do you lose all your rights as well?

If you are in a group where someone commits a crime, the entire group can be guilty of that crime. Thats the law in many countries, including the UK (last man to hang was in police custody when his partner killed a policeman)

So yes, you will lose your right although your only 'crime' is to be part of a neo-Nazi, terrorist, criminal gang.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #16
But no-one has yet shown the evidence of crimes having been committed.

If the police shot you dead, should we have a laugh about this too?

After all, all I need do is claim you are a member of some 'neo-Nazi terrorist gang' and then the shooting would be justified.
Harry
2 Dec 2013  #17
ordinary kitchen knives.

What kind of cooking were those Italian gentlemen planning to do at the stadium?
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #18
The 'sharp objects' were allegedly found in a search of their hotel rooms.

If they had had the inclination to run around stabbing people, then a kitchen knife would have been an odd choice of weapon.

Then again, the Italians aren't exactly renowned for their fighting qualities. So if these people were indeed 'hooligans', then they may well have been hopeless, pathetic and incompetent at hooliganism, and armed themselves with 'girlie' knives. So unlike their Legia counterparts.
whyikit 6 | 102
2 Dec 2013  #19
Seems simple if you carry a knife with out reason you deserve to have the full weight of the law thrown at you. There is no reason why going to a football match you would need to take a knife, irrespective of the type of knife. The only reason they would have a knife is to stab someone, for me that is good enough reason to be locked up...
Harry
2 Dec 2013  #20
If they had had the inclination to stab people then a kitchen knife would have been an odd choice of weapon.

Unless they'd done the sensible thing when it comes to trying to take weapons onto planes, i.e. not taken any and just gone shopping on arrival.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #21
Have a good look at the knives in the video. Some have serrated edges. Either the Italians were quite spectacularly stupid and didn't have the faintest idea how to injure anyone with a knife, or whatever was allegedly found in their hotel rooms had not been purchased with the intention of killing or injuring.

If anything, much of what the police put on display was the kind of cutlery you are likely to find in any hotel.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
2 Dec 2013  #22
Some have serrated edges.

So what? For goodness sake you know nothing about blades.
Harry
2 Dec 2013  #23
The weapons most often used in fatal stabbings are kitchen knives.

As for what can and can't be used as a weapon, give a Millwall fan from the 1970s a copy of the Mirror and a handful of coins and he'll show you how to turn that into a very useful weapon.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
2 Dec 2013  #24
s.

If they had had the inclination to run around stabbing people, then a kitchen knife would have been an odd choice of weapon

no it wouldnt, it would be perfect, you can buy it in any supermarket and dont have to take anything onto the plane.
I got into terrible trouble here in Wales for having a butchers knife in my handbag, it is taken v seriously, and on the way to a football match why have kitchen knife? to chop garlic?
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #25
The weapons most often used in fatal stabbings are kitchen knives.

With serrated edges ?????

I got into terrible trouble here in Wales for having a butchers knife in my handbag, it is taken v seriously, and on the way to a football match why have kitchen knife? to chop garlic?

The 'weapons' were allegedly found in their hotel rooms. They weren't actually being carried to a football match. And most of the 'weapons' look like the kind of cutlery you are likely to find in any hotel.

Please have a look at the video and judge for yourself.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
2 Dec 2013  #26
there is no reason to have a kitchen knife in your hotel room, if there was cutlery it would be downstairs in the hotel kitchen.
jon357 63 | 14,122
2 Dec 2013  #27
there is no reason to have a kitchen knife in your hotel room,

Some people take camping gas stoves, saucepans and a lot more besides to hotels.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
2 Dec 2013  #28
With serrated edges ?????

And most of the 'weapons' look like the kind of cutlery you are likely to find in any hotel.

Gee I'm not an expert but I could kill you with any kitchen knife of your choosing in two minutes. Provided you would not run.
Harry
2 Dec 2013  #29
Please have a look at the video and judge for yourself.

I just did: I'd feel pretty comfortable about my ability to do fairly serious damage to somebody with any of those.

And most of the 'weapons' look like the kind of cutlery you are likely to find in any hotel.

Certainly not in the rooms of the kind of hotels I stay in.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #30
I just did: I'd feel pretty comfortable about my ability to do fairly serious damage to somebody with any of those.

I wouldn't, so I guess we have a difference of opinion here.

Do you seriously believe some hardcore hooligan nutcase would select a serrated knife as his weapon of choice?

Two, possibly three of the knifes shown are the kind that hooligans might arm themselves with, the rest you might find in any kitchen, anywhere.


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