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Immigration Free Poland is Not Being Racist


delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
5 Mar 2017  #61
I don't think Poland's intentions are to be racist as much as their culture says it's wrong to have sex with little boys and little girls and to teach men how to beat their wives.

Really?

Perhaps you might want to explain this about Polish culture to victims of child abuse in Poland (particularly at the hands of priests), and you certainly want to explain this to the large amount of women beaten by their husbands in Poland. Only a few days ago, it was revealed that a Bydgodszcz city council member had beaten his wife repeatedly for not having food on the table.

Such an expert on Polish culture like you could come in useful here.

How many will ever not be dependent on governmnet largesse?

About this - it seems to depend on their origin. From what I've read, the Syrians are integrating well, but Germany is (unsurprisingly) struggling to deal with the African Arabs, who should never have been allowed in.
spiritus 67 | 664
5 Mar 2017  #62
here we go again......

Perhaps you might want to explain this about Polish culture to victims of child abuse in Poland (particularly at the hands of priests)

Someone makes a point, (a valid one) that a certain type of behaviour is more accepted in one culture than another and you attempt to deny this by making the point that because that behaviour is present in all cultures (albeit at a much lesser frequency) then the original point has to be invalid

Only a few days ago, it was revealed that a Bydgodszcz city council member had beaten his wife repeatedly for not having food on the table.

Are you actually making the argument that the single example in Bydgodszcz supports your point ?????

From what I've read, the Syrians are integrating well, but Germany is (unsurprisingly) struggling to deal with the African Arabs, who should never have been allowed in.

I have an open mind on this. Different media sources support different views. For example, the Economist suggests that Syrians are not integrating well at all.

economist.com/news/europe/21706329-year-after-angela-merkel-welcomed-migrants-two-syrians-differ-whether-integration-can
OP johnny reb 17 | 3,873
6 Mar 2017  #63
Someone makes a point, (a valid one) that a certain type of behaviour is more accepted in one culture than another and you attempt to deny this

He stalks every post I make with such nonsense.
My point was that it is taught and accepted in the Muslim culture to do those things.
He twisted it to making it sound like it was acceptable in Poland's culture also which it definitely is not.
May it have happened in Poland, yes, was it taught and accepted by the Polish culture like it is with Muslims, definitely not.
Such an expert on Polish culture like him could come in useful here to belittle Poland even more with his anti-Poland innuendo's.
spiritus 67 | 664
6 Mar 2017  #64
He twisted it to making it sound like it was acceptable in Poland's culture also which it definitely is not.

Johnny, I know exactly what he's doing, don't worry. That's why I'm visiting this forum more recently lately to balance the bias on certain posts. I may take issue with your point that abuse is "taught" amongst the muslim culture-I don't think it is but it is definitely more accepted.
Najade - | 19
6 Mar 2017  #65
abuse is "taught" amongst the muslim culture

in fact it is, seeing as the quran is the highest law, and there are enough verses commending how to beat your wives for various reasons (ungratefulness, jealousy, inobedience etc) and always having a rod or whip handy for that purpose.

Imams, who are the teachers of their society, will cite these verses regularly too.

It depends on what you define as abuse then, I guess.
spiritus 67 | 664
6 Mar 2017  #66
in fact it is, seeing as the quran is the highest law, and there are enough verses commending how to beat your wives for various reasons

Trust me, I am not the biggest fan of Islamisation but my views are based on reason and experience. The quran is interpreted many different ways and unlike the catholic church there is no sole authority on how the text should be interpreted. There are many good muslims who do not beat their wives. Does that mean they are rejecting the teachings of the quran ? I think not.

I DO believe there is a cultural acceptance (or "tolerance" may be a better word) of domestic abuse within the muslim community.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
6 Mar 2017  #67
I DO believe there is a cultural acceptance (or "tolerance" may be a better word) of domestic abuse within the muslim community.

And within the Polish communities, too.

This is exactly my point. Domestic violence in Poland is high, with 1 in 5 regarding it as acceptable and 1 in 6 reporting that they were victims of it.

If you want to talk about domestic violence, then you should start closer to home.
Wulkan - | 3,251
6 Mar 2017  #68
with 1 in 5 regarding it as acceptable

Lies
delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
6 Mar 2017  #69
Anything to deflect the topic, huh?

We all know how the Polish village mentality works, with beaten wives often expected to accept that they were in fact to blame for the beating.
Harry
6 Mar 2017  #71
How about the Appeals Court in Krakow?
"[A]buse may be recognized as committed through necessity imposed by the desire to preserve marriage or justified by the well-being of children or the alleged victim or any other value protected by law and more important than the dubious dignity of misconducting victims. In such circumstances, even if violence amounts to domestic abuse, it may still be recognized as not meeting the criteria of an offense under Article [207] . . . . In such circumstances, it may be recommended that the accused should be acquitted of any charges or that the penalty should not be imposed or that the victim should file a private charge against the perpetrator."

theadvocatesforhumanrights.org/uploads/poland_domestic_violence_2002_10-18-2002_2.PDF
delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
6 Mar 2017  #72
How about the Appeals Court in Krakow?

And people have the cheek to complain about Muslims committing domestic violence when, as you've nicely illustrated, domestic violence is actually considered justifiable by Polish courts.

Rather sort our own house out before complaining about others, if you ask me.

One rather suspects that like most things, people are using the domestic violence issue to bash Muslims rather than address the real issues.
Ironside 48 | 9,796
6 Mar 2017  #73
We all know how the Polish village mentality works, with beaten wives often expected to accept that they were in fact to blame for the beating.

How would you know? Are you sure you are not talking about the Scottish village mentality? For someone who defend Muslims against prejudice you yourself are prejudiced towards others.

Well, I don't care about internal problems of Muslim society or family matters. Those are different in Pakistan, different in Egypt and still different in Persia.

Still, in some cultures there some appalling barbarian practises that are being justified and legalised by Islam

All that has little to do with Poland. Not wanting Muslim immigrants is wise, they would cause a lots of problems in the long run. Even if they are nice people.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
6 Mar 2017  #74
Still, in some cultures there some appalling barbarian practises that are being justified and legalised by Islam

That's exactly the problem. These idiots would use Christianity to justify it if they just so happened to be Christian rather than Muslim.

It's why I'm against immigration from certain cultures rather than certain religions. Muslims from Bosnia? No problem, come on in. Young Muslim men with no education from Egypt? Err...rather not.
mafketis 20 | 7,331
6 Mar 2017  #75
These idiots would use Christianity to justify it

But it's not justified in the Bible IINM, while it is absolutely justified in the Koran. You can't pretend that that's not significant....
spiritus 67 | 664
6 Mar 2017  #76
We all know how the Polish village mentality works, with beaten wives often expected to accept that they were in fact to blame for the beating.

Source ? Second request.....
delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
6 Mar 2017  #77
But it's not justified in the Bible IINM, while it is absolutely justified in the Koran. You can't pretend that that's not significant....

Alas...

sojo.net/articles/troubling-texts-domestic-violence-bible/when-god-tells-woman-return-her-abuser

It's crazy, but it's there allright. It's why I say that this is a problem of culture, not of religion. Look at religion in Egypt - 10% Christian, yet studies showed that 95-97% of women have suffered FGM there.
spiritus 67 | 664
6 Mar 2017  #78
Domestic violence in Poland is high, with 1 in 5 regarding it as acceptable and 1 in 6 reporting that they were victims of it.

I really think we have come to a stage in our "relationship" Delpian where you should start quoting relevant sources for every claim you make.

Anyway......you are deflecting the argument and you and Harry (are you some part of a tag team ?) seem to take it in turns to employ the same strategy i.e. a person makes an observation about the Islamic culture/community and you (or Harry) then argue that because the same problem exists in Poland then the observation that certain traits/customs/tolerances within the muslim community have to be false.

I am not denying that domestic abuse exists in Poland. It exists in every country all over the world so it's not a point worth making but to suggest that domestic abuse in Poland is as prevalent in their society as it is in Islamic society is just false.

Look at religion in Egypt - 10% Christian, yet studies showed that 95-97% of women have suffered FGM there.

Wrong again <sighs>. First of all-please name your source. Mods-please can this be a requirement going forward if baseless claims are being made on this forum ?

In 2008 UNICEF estimated that 91% of married Egyptian women aged between 15 and 49 had been mutilated. Source: theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/06/female-genital-mutilation-egypt

Female genital mutilation is a practise common amongst muslim women. The "10% Christian women" (a figure that you mentioned) would be unlikely to have had FGM performed on them because they are..........Christian.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,681
6 Mar 2017  #79
" Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion. ..However..."

stopfgmmideast.org/background/islam-or-culture
Ironside 48 | 9,796
6 Mar 2017  #80
That's exactly the problem. These idiots would use Christianity to justify it if they just so happened to be Christian rather than Muslim.

That is a stretch. Christianity reforms society whereas Islam conserve it in some ways and destroy others ways.
--
jon357 63 | 14,134
6 Mar 2017  #81
Christianity reforms society

A very significant element of that religion does the exact opposite, and in fact opposes almost all reform
spiritus 67 | 664
6 Mar 2017  #82
@rozumiemnic

Once again, I am not denying that FGM exists within Christian communities but that does not detract from the fact that it is more prevalent in muslim women than in Christian women.

Source: who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/fgm_prevalence_egypt/en

"The girls in this study were asked for reasons to support the practice of genital cutting. Their answers included that FGM is an important religious tradition (33.4%), the practice helps ensure cleanliness for girls (18.9%), it is a cultural and social tradition (17.9%), and it promotes chastity (15.9%)."

there is evidence to support the claim that it is predominantly a religious motivation....
jon357 63 | 14,134
6 Mar 2017  #83
more prevalent in muslim

That's largely to do with the geographical areas in which it's traditionally practised rather than the beliefs of any of the mainstream religions.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,675
6 Mar 2017  #84
That is a stretch. Christianity reforms society whereas Islam conserve it in some ways and destroy others ways.

Does it really, though?

Look in South Africa - 80% are Christian, yet they're tearing themselves apart. Zimbabwe - 87%, yet...well...

It's also worth remembering that the followers of Islam in Bosnia were the ones that wanted to keep Bosnia together, while the Christians there were hell bent on destroying/carving up the country.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,681
6 Mar 2017  #85
Once again, I am not denying that FGM exists within Christian communities

post 78?
Ironside 48 | 9,796
6 Mar 2017  #86
very significant element of that religion does the exact opposite, and in fact opposes almost all reform

You like most of your anti-religious kind fails to notice that such a society that you prise, atheist (and so on)had been only possible due to Christianity.

It is madness to think that you can cut off a huge chunk of your roots and remain unscathed.
Cut off the middle of a tree and tree's corona will not withstand even the gentlest of a breeze.

Look in South Africa - 80% are Christian, yet they're tearing themselves apart. Zimbabwe - 87%, yet...well...

That is all much more complex. Thing is Christianity doesn't justify all that going on. In South African we have two other ingredients of the mix - racism and commies. Not the forget that the biggest party is a commune past at its core and in it origin.
jon357 63 | 14,134
6 Mar 2017  #87
only possible due to Christianity.

More due to those reformers who bravely and at great cost resisted it.
Ironside 48 | 9,796
6 Mar 2017  #88
eh, you wilfully delude yourself due to your feelings, Put those aside and examine the issue properly and you'll discover that it is as I say it is.
jon357 63 | 14,134
6 Mar 2017  #89
Not much of a historian, are you, of you think that viciously and violently opposing democracy, the rights of women, the rights of minorities, freedom of speech and freedom of religion '"reforms society"
Lyzko 23 | 6,652
6 Mar 2017  #90
He's obviously a PiS man, jon, don't worry, PF's well sprinkled with 'em:-)

As with that Murray fella in the States, and his Bell Curve nonsense, we should debate instead of probibit his right to "free" expression. We explain our viewpoint, he explains his and we then explain where he's a little mixed up, simple enough!


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