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Imagine a man killing 15 students in Poland. Would Polish flag be removed?


Nathans
10 Jul 2015 #1
Imagine a young man, in his 20ties, who thinks he is a great Polish patriot. He loves reading history books about Poland, is fascinated with Polish historical figures like Casimir the Great, Józef Piłsudski, Tadeusz_Kościuszko, Roman Dmowski, or Lech Wałęsa. His father was the Solidarity Movement member back in the 80ties and he's always thought that Poland should be free of the Soviet occupation. He often takes pictures with a Polish flag (his Facebook profile features his face and the background is the flag of Poland). He is also into collecting military memorabilia like uniforms, flags, medals, stamps, diaries, old weapons, or books.

One day he puts on a T-shirt with the White Eagle emblem, visits his local high-school, and kills 15 students and a teacher. Everybody is in shock; the whole Poland talks about the tragedy. Police finds out about his interest in history of Poland and the Polish flag. The media connect the dots about his Facebook profile and pictures of the Polish flag.

People start talking. How did it happen? What made him do this terrible thing? How to avoid it in the future?

--------------

The question is - would it be possible to come to the point that the flag of Poland is removed from the Polish Presidential Palace, Polish schools, and other governmental institution? Would the Polish society be united enough to remove the flag from their lives and history to prevent future tragedies?
jon357 63 | 15,068
10 Jul 2015 #2
the flag of Poland

Don't insult the flag of Poland by comparing it with a confederate symbol.
OP Nathans
10 Jul 2015 #3
Please quote me referring a confederate symbol. Besides, the question is hypothetical - but it COULD happen.
befranklin 1 | 41
10 Jul 2015 #4
Nathan we can't quote you, although we understand what you are getting at, the said flag, confederate, is NOT part of said know state, local federal government symbol. It's just some flag on a flag pole that should have been taken down long ago.The fact that its symbolism is tied to a time that America would rather forget than remember.The fact that he killed all those people is far more relevant that flag associated with a different time period. And your right with enough crazies running around it could happen but in Poland's case I bet it wouldn't be the Polish flag symbol but a "Swastika".
OP Nathans
10 Jul 2015 #5
I guess only Levi understood my point. These days selected parts of history are treated as something that can and should be deleted like a file from a hard drive. If something doesn't fit the current agenda, it just gets removed from discussions, from school books, from shops. But the problem is, these things have actually happened and they can shape the future, we can learn from the past mistakes. If we pretend nothing has happened as some of us currently do, we won't be able to determine right from wrong. Today young Poles spit on what their parents and grandparents believed and died for and selective removal of historical facts makes them feel they are right in their motives and desires.
jon357 63 | 15,068
10 Jul 2015 #6
Please quote me referring a confederate symbol

Don't be so obtuse...

the said flag, confederate, is NOT part of said know state, local federal government symbol. It's just some flag on a flag pole that should have been taken down long ago.The fact that its symbolism is tied to a time that America would rather forget than remember.

Yep.

selected parts of history

History? They're still flying it, you can still buy it, hate groups proudly use it.

America has a flag already - one with a far better history, present and probably future.
Levi 12 | 450
10 Jul 2015 #7
You dont need to imagine a example of Poland... easier to use the example of Turkey.

Less than a century ago they slaughtered 3 million christians, many kids, womans and elderly, and still their flag flies proudly.

The topic is about Poland; please stick to examples from Poland.
johnny reb 24 | 4,293
10 Jul 2015 #8
Don't insult the flag of Poland by comparing it with a confederate symbol.

Right on jon.
Polands flag stands for a proud country.
The Condederate flag stands for a period of American history.
But now that it has been taken down there will be no more racism in America..........STUPID !
jon357 63 | 15,068
10 Jul 2015 #9
now that it has been taken down there will be no more racism in America

Every little bit is a step forward...
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
10 Jul 2015 #10
A poor, indeed RIDICULOUS, analogy from the get go, Nathans!

The Polish flag is a symbol of the hard-won Polish aka human struggle for freedom. The Confederate flag, much as though it were a swastica in contemporary post-war Germany, is a symbol of hate and racial division.

Case closed:-)
johnny reb 24 | 4,293
11 Jul 2015 #11
No, case not closed.
The Confederate flag stands for a period in American history between the States.
The Polish flag stands for human struggle of freedom.
The Blacks & Liberals in America associate it with racism like everything else.
Neither the Polish flag or the Confederate flag have ever stood for racism.
What are they teaching you kids in school these days.
I will continue to fly my Confederate flag on my property as it is my right to do so.
The killing of 15 people had nothing to do with flying a flag.
This thread has nothing to do with Poland.
Make my day and please put this thread on the back page so I can explain just what racism is in America.
OP Nathans
11 Jul 2015 #12
Interesting.. so if the murderer associated himself with a Polish flag, it would be ignored, but if he associated himself with a nazi flag or a rainbow (gay) flag, it would be exposed? That's what I wrote about selectivity of exposed/ignored information.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
11 Jul 2015 #13
The Polish flag stands for human struggle of freedom.

Not always. In Poland, yes. Outside? Not necessarily.

Neither the Polish flag or the Confederate flag have ever stood for racism.

Can't talk about the Confederate flag, but the Polish flag certainly stood for oppression in some people's minds.

I will continue to fly my Confederate flag on my property as it is my right to do so.

I imagine that right will soon be taken away.
jon357 63 | 15,068
11 Jul 2015 #14
if the murderer associated himself with a Polish flag, it would be ignored, but if he associated himself with a nazi flag or a rainbow (gay) flag, it would be exposed?

Did he? No, he didn't.

Not always. In Poland, yes. Outside? Not necessarily.

Quite. The Polish flag does not have the same connotations, nor is it used to set-identify with oppression.



tictactoe
11 Jul 2015 #15
If Poland had become part of Germany through civil war and someone went into a Catholic church and killed 9 Ukraine citizens who were German, but when you killed them you had the Polish flag and seen the Ukraine people as scum, then this is what the guy who shot the people in Texas did in around about way
jon357 63 | 15,068
11 Jul 2015 #16
but when you killed them you had the Polish flag

Not so much so. That confederate rag was the emblem of very a short-lived and discredited break-away regime which was based on slavery and oppression. The Polish flag has centuries of history and doesn't have negative connotations.
johnny reb 24 | 4,293
11 Jul 2015 #17
Quite racist one must say but since it is against Whitey it's funny.
I just want to know if I marry my sister and we get a divorce will she still be my sister ?

The Polish flag does not have the same connotations, nor is it used to set-identify with oppression.

No it does not have the same connotation jon nor is the Confederate flag used to set-identify with oppression, that is the liberals bull sh!t inturpretation.

What it stood for was the division beteween the Northern States and Southern States being the heritage of the Southern States during the Civil War.

And even though after the North won the Civil War which freed the black slaves in the South the Northern
slaves remained slaves for a period.
Since Poland was never divided as such shows there is no connection between the two flags identity of heritage of Northern and Southern Poland.

I imagine that right will soon be taken away.

I think your imagination is totally wrong and you will see it swing back the other way when the South rises again.
Mentally ill people should not be allowed to remain in main stream society until they kill someone.
Flags & guns kill no one, mentally ill people kill people.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
11 Jul 2015 #18
JohnnyReb, know of any Poles, for that matter ANYbody killed, solely because of who aka "what" they were or represented, in the name of the present Polish flag??

If you do (since you seem like such an expertLOL), please let us know:-)
johnny reb 24 | 4,293
12 Jul 2015 #19
please let us know

Who is "us" Lyzko ? You got a mouse in your pocket ? LOL
I wonder if the people of Poland had a city say like Chicago where 25 to 30 blacks are shot every week end by other blacks if they would be stupid enough to blame it on a flag or call it racism.

Your thoughts on that Mr. Brilliance ?
jon357 63 | 15,068
12 Jul 2015 #20
any Poles, for that matter ANYbody killed, solely because of who aka "what" they were or represented, in the name of the present Polish flag??

Bingo. The Polish flag is not used as a sign of hostility and has not been so used within living memory or for well over a century before that. As a battle flag it has for over two Centuries been used only in the defence of freedom - not to oppress. Whereas the flag of the very short lived and fortunately defeated 'confederate' regime is used even today as a tawdry emblem by those who supported segregation and their heirs.
johnny reb 24 | 4,293
12 Jul 2015 #21
Whereas the flag of the very short lived and fortunately defeated 'confederate' regime is used even today as a tawdry emblem by those who supported segregation and their heirs.

No, no it is not jon, it is used for the pride of the South heritage so quit spreading lies or as you would say;

"You don't live here so how would you know."
Don't try to compare the Polish flag to it or use the Polish flag for an excuse to tear the Confederate flag down.

While what you post about the Polish flag is spot on.....what you post about the Confederate flag is
what YOU may ONLY read in the Liberal media to be used as a race card.
Hopefully Poland would never go as low to use their flag for such a pitiful excuse.
kpc21 1 | 763
12 Jul 2015 #22
He would be considered an idiot having nothing in common with patriotism. The flags wouldn't be removed but descended to the half of the height of the masts and black ribbons would be added because national mourning would be anonunced - this is the most likely scenario.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
12 Jul 2015 #23
The Polish flag would not be removed because, and the answer is obvious - it is a flag representing a nation as a whole. A nation that the entire world recognizes as a nation. It doesn't represent a movement within the boundaries of a legitimate nation but the entire nation itself. Therefore, it should not be banned because of one man's abuse. The flag does not symbolize a sliver of Poland but all of it.
befranklin 1 | 41
14 Jul 2015 #24
Well it looks as though this topic is finally dead, I really don't know anyone who lives here in the US who would even bother flying a Confederate flag. Those that do are trying to hold on to a past that has been gone long ago. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Thus the Confederate flag is a relic and should remain in the past for everyone concerned.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
14 Jul 2015 #25
Unfortunately, many in the South (and elsewhere) simply won't let the past pass away, hence it becomes the eternal present, nagging at our conscience and tugging at our coattails!
Uncle Mitch - | 5
9 Sep 2015 #26
Listen to johnny reb, guys. He understands Confederate history and culture well. I can see that some of you are getting the leftist narrative about the Confederate flag. I've lived my entire life in the US - half in the heart of the birthplace of the nation (Philadelphia area) and half in North Carolina nad Tennessee. The white people of the South get along better with Blacks than do the white people in the North. The Stars and Bars represent their heritage to them. In modern days it has also filled a role as a symbol of defiance to the invading hordes from the North who move there for the weather, low cost of living, and office jobs in and around Raleigh, Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, etc., and vote Democrat.

The US is coming apart at the seams culturally. The South could actually persevere as a nation with some tweaks. Other than some rural parts of the West and Midwest, that can't be said for any other parts of the physical country.

That war was far more complicated than casual readers understand. The rewriters of history want you to believe it was about slavery. Lincoln wanted to send the Blacks back to Africa after the war.


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