Freedom of religion v animal rights in Poland?

The issue of re-legalising ritual slaughter (demadned by Jews and Muslims) is diving Poland's ruiling colaiton, with the PSL in favour and most PO MPs opposed. This is a delicate controversy pitting freedom of religion against humane treatment of animals. Where do you stand on this. I am undecided.

There's no reason nowadays to kill any animal in order to steal their protein. No such thing as 'humane slaughter' no matter how nice lamb chops taste.

Why post about something you have no opinion about?
Poor attempt at trolling.

Back to this again. Making it illegal was simply just a protest by supreme court judges against their loss of control. This is just a platform, using an emotive subject, for protesting against losing control of Polish law to Europe. There is nothing that can be changed, the deals been done.

I'm sure you are aware that Poland is a major exporter of H and K meat. What damage would be done to this industry?

It matters how they live, not how they die.
You have to ask yourself as to what conditions the animals you eat lived in and then compare that to what conditions halaal or kosher slaughtered animals lived in. Proceed from there.

both how they live and die is a concern.

I am not a meat eater anymore but animals killed in factory slaughterhouses are killed under extreme duress causing massive stress to the animal which actually alters the taste of the meat.

If all meat was reared in responsible farming conditions, not pumped with massive hormones, steroids and antibiotics then our food chain would be different. But factory meat is manufactured to fast food companies and the like. So the foods the animals eat are poison, the animals are poison---everything is toxic in factory meat. It never used to be this way.

Very true. That seal of quality or whatever they call it to justify charging more for chickens just means that they 'promise' to pick them up by two legs rather than one when they throw them live into the dumpster.

I am against is personally, and this should not be re-legalised. Ritual slaughter is the key. They way some of these poor animals are killed in the Islamic faith [as an example], is horrendous. Of course Poland is now a secular country right, so they have to consider this stuff. If it embraced Catholicism more, this type of stuff would be out of the question. Don't want to start this argument again though so, moving on.

You do realise that the 1921 Constitution was secular too?


Catholicism has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with huge, lucrative export markets.

I knew mentioning Catholicism would kick up a storm. To think, calling Poland a Catholic, okay fine, let's just go with, Christian country, could draw such a reaction. Oh the world must be ending soon.

Back to the question though. Exports? Money? So what? you ever heard of a crime against nature? That's what these slaughters are.

Delph- take WP comment that it's not the place for it. 2 thread goes into that topic. I like this discussion but I would prefer it in some special thread

Interesting point you raise. Again, for what it's worth, I believe that how animals live (up to the point of death for those of you who want to nitpick) is a more important issue overall but homing in on that key word does make me wonder about a future variable.

What would happen if it became a religious issue as to who did the slaughtering? Could that angle be used to "force" slaughter houses which took on this practice to employ only those who follow a specific faith?

I've seen some pretty far out interpretations of faith coming from both Muslims and Jews regarding Goyim and/or Infidels. I wonder how far some of those interpretations would make it in an E.U. court.

I'm sure that'll p*ss off some of you but it's an honest question so if anyone has any insight into the do's and dont's of ritual slaughter, feel free to contribute.

Dunno about the Arabs, but Kosher slaughter as far as I know is actually quite humnae. The animal is drained of its blood, I assume the way we do when we prepare czernina. The duck or goose feels only a pin prick and as it is bled it gradually grows weak and sleepy and that's it. There is nothing violent like an electric shock or a blow to the head.

If you had to choose one of those three options for yourself, which would it be?

The gradual fading-out option.

I'll make a note of it; )
Thank you for your honesty: )

It's a pity that most peoples supposed knowledge of such processes is gleaned from articles with an agenda. It's also a pity that populations have ever distanced themselves from the realities of farming animals. Most people are now so out of touch with the realities of meat production, their comments are worthless.

I once worked a turkey farm, while still at school, for some extra cash one christmas. The turkeys, while fully alive, were hung by their feet on a conveyor which lowered their heads into a tank of water which was electrified. Unfortunately some turkeys were able to raise their heads enough to avoid the water and subsequently hit the plucking machine alive and fully conscious. Really not nice.

The gradual fading out option is my preference.

@Polonius

I am not sure about it being humane to drain an animal of it's blood. Imagine getting cut open and left to bleed to death. That can't be pleasant. I think an instant kill must be more humane.

Well, unless one entirely eschews meat, there is really no humane way to slaughter livestock.

They don't think on the same level as you or I. From experience of slaughter houses, I am sure they are aware that something significant is about to happen. Maybe they smell death.

A few years ago there was a documnetary on TV about abbatoirs in Poland. It showed that live pigs on the conveyor belt getting jittery at the smell of blood and the squealing of their fellows being butchered. Probably if it were repeatedly screened there'd be a lot more vegetarians.

I did not see that but I saw a different program about slaughter of pigs and since that, it is the one meat I don't eat. One might reply, just that, why not other meat? Well I am a meat eater. I'd like to think that in most places, chickens, lambs or cows don't get brutally butchered, but this documentary I saw about pigs was horrible. It showed them cut open, still alive, being dragged across the floor squealing. It was horrible to watch. Later they did an interview with a guy who said he gets away with murder 100 times a day. I have not looked in to other animals as of yet, but I have a feeling that the pig is one animal that doesn't get killed in a very humane way, if there is such a thing.

I am not an animal rights activist and am not particularly in to animal issues, but something needs to be done to make sure, that if they are going to be killed and used as food, it is done in a way that gives them the least pain and trauma [I am sure that many animals can very easily suffer trauma]. An electric shock that kills a cow, or one quick sharp axe to the neck of a chicken is acceptable [to me, although even that might be unacceptable to some]. A long death is not.

Like I said, I was not interested in any type of animal rights activism in the past, but some of the stuff I have seen recently, has opened my eyes to just how barbaric some people can be, and this is not always for food, but is always for profit. A couple of examples would be the poisoning of street dogs in Ukraine, or the bashing in of seals heads. [I remember seeing a clip of a guy walk up to a seal, who just sat there, assuming he was friendly, then wham! He took out his hammer and smashed it over the seals head! It was hard to watch. It is not surprising so many animals run away when they see a person, you can't trust them.

Among other things, PF can help you learn new things you are not too familar with.

Both methods are probably as humane or more so than those used in Europe.

Draining an animal of its blood while it is alive, is more humane than a quick kill. What are you smoking?

You think abbatoirs are quick?

never heard of that method, so explain please, then tell me who does it, and how often this method is used. The Islamic way to kill the animals, is used widely, pretty much throughout Islamic countries [and not just].

If you need to ask, why comment?

Because you are mentioning a method that you seem to claim [by the 'tone of you post] is a lot worse than the Islamic ritual way. So why not describe so I can judge it for myself. I ask where it is used, since, if it is very rarely used, and only done by a select few people, then it is hardly methods in Europe, as you broadly generalised, that are less humane than the Islamic methods.

The European and American way is much less humane. Killing on an industrial scale. BTW, I've seen both methods practised.

Why not check these out:

nysdelight.com/what-is-halal-food/