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Fitting balanced flue Gas Central heating boiler in Poland


Karpaczboy
11 Aug 2015 #1
Hi Does anyone know if it is possible to fit a balanced flue gas boiler in Poland? We have spoken to Plumbers and Komins (chimney specialists) and everyone looks blankly as we describe balanced flue boilers as in the UK. Is there is a hydraulik out there who knows the Polish regulations? At the moment we are potentially having a new boiler with two new holes in the roof, one for the exhaust chimney, one for the ventilation. Better to have one hole in the wall but never seen a balanced flue boiler in any suppliers nor does anyone in the area recognise what they are! Tried several plumbers and suppliers. Any one in the know? Thanks.
Polsyr 6 | 769
11 Aug 2015 #2
From what I have seen, nobody wants to look at balanced flue in Poland. It is mostly forced (newer) or natural draft (older). I can't tell you whether it is a matter of code or local trade tradition. Recently a client asked me about heat recovery units for an old natural draft boiler for the purpose of preheating combustion air - I have no idea how to balance such a system. I raised a white flag. Sorry couldn't offer more useful feedback.
Dolnoslask
11 Aug 2015 #3
Take a look on the castorama or leroy merlin websites, they have the gas boilers, looks like they maybe balanced, but i have not looked further as I have no gas where i live

Next time i am there i will unbox one and let u know, nice thing about poland is that you can unbox anything and no one bats an eyelid.
Polsyr 6 | 769
11 Aug 2015 #4
you can unbox anything

Yeah it is not annoying at all when you wanna buy something and every single box of the same thing has been torn apart :) It is like people are not satisfied by checking the item from an already open box, they have to open a new box, examine it, probably damage it, then proceed to take a closed box (if they buy in the first place). Let me know what you find. I was at Leroy yesterday looking for a fan actually since one of mine burned out. I did not notice anything balanced physically in the store.
Dolnoslask
11 Aug 2015 #5
Good point polsyr i usually find a box that is already open, but I have been to places where all the boxes are torn apart, mainly lidl when they have nice power tools on offer.

When I was last in castorama i wanted to buy a stand alone bottle gas fire, I asked the assistant if it came with a regulator, he said that he didnt know, but proceeded to tear the box apart to find out.

Karpaczboy, If I think about it now, it would be probably better to take a note of the manufacturer's model numbers and download the installation guides off the web, should telll u if it has a double inner / outer flue etc.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
12 Aug 2015 #6
Hi Does anyone know if it is possible to fit a balanced flue gas boiler in Poland?

I went through all this 8 years ago when I built a block of apartments. I did not want chimneys as they create a weakness in the roof. Checked that balanced flue boilers were available, checked for the CE mark to make sure that they were EU approved and ask allowed to use the boilers we wanted the plumbing contractor to fit them in each of the 13 apartments. He informed me that it would not be approved by the gas company and I would be asked to take them out and install, vertical flues. Went to the gas office who informed me of the same.

From what I was able to figure out, two men who go around and check the airflow, once every year for blockages, birds nests, etc, would be put out of work if we were allowed to fit boilers with a balanced flue. I had to build the chimneys, vents and a metal, walkway, access ladder, across the roof for them to spend their 20 min visit and earn their 50 PLN, meanwhile, it
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
12 Aug 2015 #7
From what I was able to figure out, two men who go around and check the airflow, once every year for blockages, birds nests, etc, would be put out of work if we were allowed to fit boilers with a balanced flue.

That explains a lot! I wondered why someone was coming round every year to do that, and now it makes perfect sense.

Another communist-era "non-job" situation, then.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
12 Aug 2015 #8
it cost me 400,000 PLN added to the project. Still I can sleep well knowing that these vent checkers will get to climb up on the roof once a year and get a nice view of the lakes. Meanwhile, a few people die every year in Poland from carbon monoxide poisoning because these boilers are not used. As an aside to this story, I had to send the roofing contractors back 3 times for remedial works as the chimneys were leaking around the flashings. I am still puzzled as to why they put a CE certification mark on materials that you are not allowed to use in a European country, perhaps Poland never really joined the EU.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
12 Aug 2015 #9
I am still puzzled as to why they put a CE certification mark on materials that you are not allowed to use in a European country, perhaps Poland never really joined the EU.

It will come, probably when someone takes the gas company to court for abusing their monopoly position.
Dolnoslask
12 Aug 2015 #10
Ah....That explains why a scruffy looking drunk fellow turns up every year with a steel ball with a brush on the end of it, I always tell him to go home and sober up. And then he bleats on about something to do with insurance.

Must admit that I only burn wood and coke in my Aga, I sweep out the chimney and pipes each year.

I have fitted fire and Co2 Detectors in each room, Every Winter i read about people dying or ending up in hospital with Co2 poisoning caused by faulty gas installations.

Thanks avalon you have just explained why this happens so frequently here.

Armed with the above information,I don't think I would stay anywhere in Poland without taking a Co2 detector with me 80zl from tesco, worth every penny.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
12 Aug 2015 #11
I have fitted fire and Co2 Detectors in each room, Every Winter i read about people dying or ending up in hospital with Co2 poisoning caused by faulty gas installations.

Balanced flue boilers have a non-return valve on the exhaust which switches off the boiler in the event of a blow-back, thus, no fumes enter the room in which the boiler is situated. These boilers are the ones that are normally fitted in the UK and have reduced the number of deaths by carbon monoxide, immensely. Most deaths in the UK are caused by unscrupulous, landlords who fit gas fires in rooms which have had the chimneys capped off. Usually foreign landlords that have no idea of the regulations and are not used to gas heating appliances.

As for the men employed to check the vents in Poland, I still expect to see a cart being pulled through the village and hear the cry of "Bring out your dead".
terri 1 | 1,665
12 Aug 2015 #12
It is an annual requirement that you have your chimneys checked by a professional who issues a certificate of compliance. If you have something which does not comply they can ask you to take it out - more expense for you. The gas company will not issue you a contract for supply of gas if you do not have the certification from the chimney sweeps.

The contractors will go on about a closed and an open flues - you must understand the difference. You may also need to have air vents in your windows.
Dolnoslask
12 Aug 2015 #13
Terri : Thanks for the advice I didn't know about the gas companies requirement, I am glad that I have no gas, only wood,coal and coke, so no need for me to worry about it, great info for those that do.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
12 Aug 2015 #14
You may also need to have air vents in your windows.

When you order purpose made windows, they will not allow for "trickle vents" in the frames unless, specifically, asked for. It is not a requirement/regulation in Poland.
terri 1 | 1,665
12 Aug 2015 #15
When I mentioned air vents - I did not mean trickle vents in the frames. If a gas boiler is positioned in a room (I have one in the kitchen) then the doors and windows need to have vents. That's why in Poland the bathroom doors have vents - because generally the gas boiler is in the bathroom. As the original poster does not have gas - then this is irrelevant.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
12 Aug 2015 #16
That's why in Poland the bathroom doors have vents - because generally the gas boiler is in the bathroom. As the original poster does not have gas

With the balanced flue going through the outside wall, you would not need vents in the door.

"You may also need to have air vents in your windows."

You do not vent through double glazed units, thats why I said trickle vents in the frame.
terri 1 | 1,665
12 Aug 2015 #17
Are we still discussing the way things are done in Poland? What experience do you have of chimney sweeps, local regulations, building regulations? Have you built a new house or undertaken any renovations in flats/house in Poland recently?
Polsyr 6 | 769
12 Aug 2015 #18
Avalon, did you ever deal with industrial boiler installations?
Avalon 4 | 1,068
12 Aug 2015 #19
Not really, most of the projects I have been involved with were residential. I had to learn the building regs for every trade.
Dolnoslask
12 Aug 2015 #20
ahh Chimney sweeping!!!!

For some strange reason I cannot find a chimney brush that's wide enough to fit my chimney 1.5m all my Neighbours tell me not to worry, but i aint gonna listen to them because every winter all i hear about in the local news is chimney fires, so i am having to use a .5m brush to clean the chimney which takes ages.

does anyone know where I can buy a 1.5m metre brush.

I know boring but important, life in Poland I guess...
OP Karpaczboy
13 Aug 2015 #21
Having read all the comments I now understand a bit better why the komin and hydraulik reacted as they did. I wonder whether in the first instance I should apply to the Karpacz city hall and the Gaz company to fit an EU certified balanced flue boiler and see what the response is. I've never seen a balanced flue at any suppliers and have inspected many boilers etc with many conversations at Castorama. (No boxes were hurt in any scenario!) Thanks for the feedback - does anyone know an English speaking plumber in the Jelenia Gora / Karpacz area?
kpc21 1 | 763
13 Aug 2015 #22
why the komin and hydraulik reacted as they did

Kominiarz, not komin, komin is a chimney :)

About the brush and about cleaning the chimney, maybe something from here will help:
czysteogrzewanie.pl/komin/czyszczenie-komina

Co2 poisoning

You rather meant CO (carbon oxide). CO2 (carbon dioxide) is not poisonous.

The problems are:
- there is an obligation to monitor the state of the chimneys and to clean them in multi-family houses, but there is no such an obligation in detached houses

- people tend to block the air vents in winter with rags or whatever they have, thinking that because of the cool air coming to house they are loosing heat and therefore money, not understanding that proper ventilation is needed in the house due to different reasons; there are also, for example, cases when people change old draughty wooden windows into new ones made of PCV and then they suffer from mould on walls - because installing the new tight windows blocked the ventilation system, fresh air is unable to enter the rooms

Why Polish gas companies and administrations do not like these balanced flue boilers - I have no idea.
Polsyr 6 | 769
13 Aug 2015 #23
Yesterday the chimney sweeper came by with his calendar. Anyone else familiar with these? I will take a picture of it and post it here later today :)
InPolska 11 | 1,821
13 Aug 2015 #24
@Polsyr! Hi! do you mean for ... 2016? They some years come to my house in October (like last year) but in early August???? Weird ;)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
13 Aug 2015 #25
Yesterday the chimney sweeper came by with his calendar. Anyone else familiar with these? I will take a picture of it and post it here later today :)

These guys aren't even chimney sweeps, they're just random people pretending to be sweeps in order to make money.
Dolnoslask
13 Aug 2015 #26
Karpaczboy : If you find a decent plumber in the Jelenia Gora area please let me know his details polish speaking no problem. I can't find anyone half usefull near where i live.

Kpc21 : Thanks for the info and link most useful, I will keep my co2 for fizzy drinks in future, chemistry not my best.

I like this site lots of helpful people, makes up for the moaners.
Polsyr 6 | 769
13 Aug 2015 #27
2016?

Yup 2016...

@Delph; this guy is the same guy that comes every year, so I know him, but I am familiar with the fake ones also :) Amazing how people will jump on any opportunity to scam others...

@Dolnoslask; if you have any questions related to pumps, solar-thermal, adsorption cooling, centrifugal separators, intake screens... don't be shy.
karpaczboy
17 Aug 2015 #28
No-one knows any good Plumbers in the Karpacz or Jelenia Gora areas? I have found great Polish guys back in UK but they never want to do any work back here :) I was thinking of offering a weeks work and weeks holiday! Seriously though surely someone knows a decent plumber in the area? Thanks.
Looker - | 1,097
17 Aug 2015 #29
The best Polish plumbers went abroad a long time ago. I live in Szklarska Poręba and call mostly a local plumber from our municipal water supply plant - they are always short of time, but when near our area they are quickly at the place.

In the case of a more serious things maybe try somebody from the jelonka.com adverts - I don't know anybody from Karpacz area. I know - not much help.
OP Karpaczboy
7 Sep 2015 #30
Thanks for the responses just returned to UK having found a plumber from Sciengy, courtesy of a new friend found whilst wanderer in round local Castorama!! Plumber has indicated it is possible to install a dual liner into existing chimney with exhaust and ventilation ... so problems solved and what hopefully should be a sensible and effective job. Whilst this is not the balanced flue fitted in UK it carries out the same function and saves having two intrusive sets of flue pipe. Hopefully this might work for others.


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