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Catholic "Telewizja Trwam" from Poland - your thoughts?


jon357 71 | 21,105
10 Nov 2013 #91
then they are just a guilty.

No. saying you agree with a death is not the same as killing someone.

The bottom line is, people crucified him.

That's the standard theological line.

What exactly was he guilty of that earned him a crucifixion? Disturbing the piece?

This is what we don't know, probably never will and oughtn't to rely on the gospels for.
Harry
10 Nov 2013 #92
Of course they demanded he be crucified, the whole anger, on their part, was that he was claiming to he the son of God, that to the Jews, was blasphemous.

Utter bollocks: blasphemers were stoned, not crucified.

An angry crowd did. Not 'the Jews'. Some of them in fact rather liked him.

Well, he did say Jehovah....
youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU
(I wonder which Polish TV channel the women in that video would watch if they were alive and lived in Poland today).
OP WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
10 Nov 2013 #93
No. saying you agree with a death is not the same as killing someone.

Asking for someone to be killed is worse than agreeing with the killing of somebody.

blasphemers were stoned, not crucified.

Jesus said he was the son of God and this enraged many Jews, more than somebody simply using the Lord's name in vein. It's astonishing, that after a couple of thousand years some people [like the usual troublemakers on this forum] are trying to skew what happened. So apparently it wasn't the Jews. Wait for it, soon we'll hear that Jesus was crucified with the other thieves, because he himself was a thief. He did nothing wrong! Even those that don't believe in him, believe he was there and was generally just a good guy trying to preach good. There is no record anywhere, from what I have seen, of him being a criminal or anything of the sort.

This is what we don't know, probably never will and oughtn't to rely on the gospels for.

According to Jon though, he probably did something wrong, but we don't know what, or else the 100% righteous and honest, law abiding Cesar would not have had him crucified. Oh yeah there is no possible way he had him crucified, because the Jewish masses wanted it this way, and he didn't want to have problems with them.
jon357 71 | 21,105
10 Nov 2013 #94
Asking for someone to be killed is worse than agreeing with the killing of somebody.

Doesn't fit with your earlier comment:

According to Jon though, he probably did something wrong

According to the authorities of the day, even. Though I wouldn't rule out anything - we'll never know and we have no reliable source material.

You have an interesting understanding of the word 'probably'...
yehudi 1 | 433
10 Nov 2013 #95
Are you sure? What about that whole crucifixion business?

That story is your writings, not ours. We don't have to explain an event that may never have happened. What is true is that the Romans in that period crucified Jews right and left, so it's certainly possible that they crucified a man named Jesus. But I never saw any mention of it in the Mishna, the part of the Talmud that was written in those times, so I doubt that his execution, if it happened, attracted more attention than the hundreds of others who were killed the same way.

Oh some of them did now did they? I can't believe you are trying to re-interpret what happened.

As far as I'm concerned the whole event was a legend. Along with the virgin birth, being the son of god etc. Every religion has it's stories and you're welcome to believe in yours. But just keep me out of it.

Utter bollocks: blasphemers were stoned, not crucified.

Maybe in biblical times they were, but in the second temple period and certainly in the roman occupation the Sanhedrin didn't have the power to carry out executions.

But if you want to study religious executions, why go so far back into history? People are executed in the Muslim world for blasphemy even today.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,914
10 Nov 2013 #96
. It's astonishing, that after a couple of thousand years some people [like the usual troublemakers on this forum] are trying to skew what happened.

I think you'll have to email the old pope and let him know that he's wrong in your opinion.

The international media are abuzz over Pope Benedict XVI's forthcoming book, which contains a brief section affirming that the Jewish people bear no collective guilt for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Jesus of Nazareth II, the second volume of Benedict's examination of Gospel accounts of the life of Christ, lays immediate blame upon two groups: the "Temple aristocracy" anxious to forestall a Roman crackdown on the Jewish people, and a crowd that massed in support of Barabbas, shouting for the convicted rebel's release. The Pope goes on to place ultimate culpability for Jesus' death upon the sins of mankind.

christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/marchweb-only/popepointsfinger.html
OP WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
10 Nov 2013 #97
I think that the former Pope was trying to prevent antisemitism. The fact is, people killed Jesus, and people wanted him crucified. It just so happens that the people who wanted him crucified were Jews, because he was Jewish and said he was the son of God.

In the quotes you posted, it is fairly clear that the previous Pope was just trying to move Christians away from this notion that the Jews are to blame, and concentrate on the fact that we are sinners.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,914
10 Dec 2013 #98
Currently showing a programme about prayer groups at Auschwitz, with lots of very distressing archive photos. Shame it was not on earlier in the evening before the mohair berets went to bed.


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