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Why do people think that Poles are culturally isolated?


ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #91
Surprise, surprise, I know thrse places :)) And your point is ? Please explain.

Do you really believe the powers that be in Poland and Szczecin really care about the conditions people live in in places such as these?

Such people are just forgotten about in Poland.

Btw, Grzegorz, I'm here to discuss, not to flame. For that reason, I'm putting Wulkan on ignore.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #92
Btw, Grzegorz, I'm here to discuss, not to flame. For that reason, I'm putting Wulkan on ignore.

I'm not here to flame either son
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #93
Show me you're here to discuss by not responding to points with malice and aggression, and then I'll discuss with you. It's very much up to you. And please don't call me 'son'.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #94
Do you really believe the powers that be in Poland and Szczecin really care about the conditions people live in in places such as these?

So what in your opinion should be done, what authorities of a city, where industrial base basically disappeared in the last several years should do ? Spent half of the budget on revitalization of 2 small, peripherial districts ?

Again, you seem to be pushing the idea that poor in Poland are forgotten, neglected etc. That's not the case, there's simply so many of them that one can't really help them unless the whole country moves forward.

Poland is poor, so our poor are really poor, just like our middle class is poorer than working class in many western countries, that's the reality in poor countries. If you still don't agree, please clearly explain your point. Thanks in advance.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #95
So what in your opinion should be done, what authorities of a city, where industrial base basically disappeared in the last several years should do ? Spent half of the budget on revitalization of 2 small, peripherial districts ?

1. Spend money on sensible projects that will give people work, and not pointless advertising slogans such as 'Floating Gardens 2050'.

2. Cut the massive bureaucracy in the city. For example, Szczecin Centrum Renowacyjny employs 30 or more people to do nothing. They are not revitalising the city, so therefore they should not be employed by the city.

3. Put a stop to corruption. The city should be run for the people and not those with influential friends.

Those are three suggestions to start with.
David_18 68 | 982
23 Dec 2012 #96
Those are three suggestions to start with.

Do something about it then?

How hard can it be to send a complain to the polish goverment about the situation in your city? They been cracking down on corruption all over Poland.

Central Anticorruption Bureau
cba.gov.pl/portal/en/
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #97
I write articles about it sometimes.

Apart from this, I don't have the power to do anything.

The government is already cracking down on some of these issues.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #98
Spend money on sensible projects that will give people work

Either central gov or regional/local authorities are not to provide jobs, they should be creating good environment for the growth of private sector... about your other points:

Cut the massive bureaucracy

Put a stop to corruption.

Yeah, exactly.
1. Reduce bureaucracy and make the law simple, without thousands of exceptions and contrary interpretations.
2. Reduce corruption from nearly "African" to at least avg European level.
3. Start reforming this country instead of counting only on "foreign investors" and "EU funds".
4. Create good opportunities for domestic small & medium companies instead of counting only on "foreign investors" and "EU funds".
5. Improve the justic system as right now it is a total mess.
6. Spend the public money wisely, thnik twice If it makes sense before you spent even 1PLN.

That is a very short summary of what should be done in Poland, however It is not "Your ideas how to improve Polish 3rd Republic" thread, this is basically (zeti please correct me If I'm wrong) "Why the hell 'westerners' have so negative opinion about Poles" thread and then ant guy shows up and claims that's becasue Poland is poor, many buildings are almost collapsing etc., well so I ask him what does he (or you) think about Indians or Pakistanis as their countries are far poor than Poland.
David_18 68 | 982
23 Dec 2012 #99
and then ant guy shows up and claims that's becasue Poland is poor, many buildings are almost collapsing etc., well so I ask him what does he (or you) think about Indians or Pakistanis as their countries are far poor than Poland.

Does it matter what he thinks? He obviously hates his country so much that he moved to Poland rofl.
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #100
1. Greg you are looking for something thats not really there. Its you that is bringing up the crimes and as a matter of fact, I don't think the BBC news website has an agenda, in fact the opposite is probably true. There is more likely a deliberate attempt to dumb down news about immigrants of all nationalities. Lets say for example in Poland an English guy beats the crap out of an 80 year old woman while stealing from her home. A day later she is found dead. Whats the big news in Poland going to be? Here its not going to make the evenning news unless its a no news day. Now if it was an English guy, in England, it would possibly be a big story. Really you have it all wrong.

2. But in another thread you said Poland was rich. It doesn't matter to me if Poland is rich or poor. I doubt anyone looks at Poland on a map and thinks "thats a poor country". Its all relative. If you have a decent income in England, Poland is cheap. If you are on a low income in Poland, England is horribly expensive.

I don't understand why you think every Angol that comes on here is attacking Poland. Most are interested in Poland for various reasons. You kind of put people off.
David_18 68 | 982
23 Dec 2012 #101
I don't understand why you think every Angol that comes on here is attacking Poland. Most are interested in Poland for various reasons. You kind of put people off.

Like the british say, go back to the filthy place you came from! ;)

Nobody is interested to listen to your moaning about Poland.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #102
I don't understand why you think every Angol that comes on here is attacking Poland.

it is not truth
OP zetigrek
23 Dec 2012 #103
If only I had known it's going to turn out into such a hell I wouldn't start this therad.
Merry Christmas to you all! It wasn't really my intention to make people throw mud at one another.
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #104
Yeah, exactly.
3. Start reforming this country instead of counting only on "foreign investors" and "EU funds".
5. Improve the justic system as right now it is a total mess.

5. needs moving to number 1 as the justice system is so slow, it would take too long to change any of the other things.
3. needs a higher priority as chances are as newer EU members come on stream with lower wages, existing foriegn investors may move.

See we don't think to far apart.

TBH I rarely think about India or Pakistan although I have considered a motorcycle trip through India. No time these days. Maybe when I retire. I have had the displeasure of needing to use the toilet in an Indian factory in the East End of London once. That vision will stay with me for life. Somethings I saw, you wouldn't believe a human arse was capable of. Shudder.

Does it matter what he thinks? He obviously hates his country so much that he moved to Poland rofl.

There is no hope for you is there. Plank.
gumishu 11 | 5,017
23 Dec 2012 #105
I don't understand why you think every Angol that comes on here is attacking Poland. Most are interested in Poland for various reasons. You kind of put people off.

yes he does put off people, he's doing Poland a big disfavour with his writing
OP zetigrek
23 Dec 2012 #106
Grzegorz_:

Every Pole knows that. The problem is how to do it.
It's very easy to give such pieces of advice, and very annoying knowing one has just discovered America in cans, as we say it
David_18 68 | 982
23 Dec 2012 #107
yes he does put off people, he's doing Poland a big disfavour with his writing

Could you please elaborate on this one?
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #108
When you have had a bit more experience of life, you may understand.
David_18 68 | 982
23 Dec 2012 #109
What do you know about my life?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #110
1. Greg you are looking for something thats not really there. Its you that is bringing up the crimes

It doesn't matter to me if Poland is rich or poor.

Double lol, man have mercy, everyone who has followed this thread can clearly see that YOU brought up both issues and as you claimed that 's somehow why Poles have "bad press" :)))

But in another thread you said Poland was rich.

Nonsense. I've been fighting "Poland is rich" crowd for years here, ironically they often are westerners.
OP zetigrek
23 Dec 2012 #111
Grzegorz_

Have you been born in Poland? I ask because you have written in your profile that you know only "some" Polish.
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #112
Every Pole knows that. The problem is how to do it.

I hope they don't sort the Law out like they have here by piling one after the other new Laws on top of each other and then add a new bit on to correct something they left off.

I have the feeling, from experience, there is some fear of the judiciary in Poland. They are God not people.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #113
Yeah, exactly.

So you agree with me, then :)

That is a very short summary of what should be done in Poland, however It is not "Your ideas how to improve Polish 3rd Republic" thread

I wrote those points because you asked me to.

"Why the hell 'westerners' have so negative opinion about Poles" thread and then ant guy shows up and claims that's becasue Poland is poor, many buildings are almost collapsing etc., well so I ask him what does he (or you) think about Indians or Pakistanis as their countries are far poor than Poland.

Why are you comparing Poland with these countries?

Should English people do the same and pat each other on the back for being richer?

If yours is a genuine question, I'd have to say I've never been to either. However, only from what I read in newspapers, I'd say that India is advancing very rapidly, whereas Pakistan appears to be regressing.

These debates are infantile. Much of it is 'whataboutery'. If people want to bait and taunt, then just ignore them. If something is bad in Poland, it doesn't really matter whether things are just as bad or worse in some other country. This won't make the problem any better.

I don't imagine most Westerners spend much of their time slagging off Poland and Poles. Most Westerners aren't really all that interested in Poland, tbh.

The people you get on here who slag off Poles aren't representative of anyone other than themselves. You won't learn anything from their trite opinions, they just want to wind you up. And the more angry you get, the happier they will be.

Most likely they got dumped by some Polish girl, and are still licking their wounds.

Personally, I'm here to discuss and learn. I hope I can ignore the WUMs. If not, then I'll just quit.
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #114
Nonsense. I've been fighting "Poland is rich" crowd for years here, ironically they often are westerners.

Sorry I may have confused you with Tommy. It happens.

Come on yourself. What I said was Poland/Poles are not doing a good job of expressing the positives of Poland. I'm sorry if it comes across that I think every Pole in the UK is bad, because that simply isn't true. I said before I post what I see, not fantasy, nor what I see in the news. If you don't like what I see, then what can I do about other than not post it? I think a lot of people want to hear the reality rather than some dumb story of how thier friend makes big money in England, can do this, has that when in reality they are on the bottom rung of the ladder here in multi occupancy. My partner listenned to the bull before she came here. She cried everyday for six weeks as she had gone from hair stylist to shyte shoveller. I didn't know her then.

In a round about way, I'm on your side because I like Poland and who knows, one day I may live there. So chill out and lets not spoil Zetigrek's threads anymore as she asks some really good questions.

Peace.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #115
Every Pole knows that. The problem is how to do it. It's very easy to give such pieces of advice, and very annoying knowing one has just discovered America in cans, as we say it

That's the very basic stuff, I know, I brought it up only to show ifor guy that I do agree with some of his points but I have no clue how is that related to the main topic... Ant guy says Poles have bad press because there's poverty in Poland and so on... Really, does an average guy in Europe cares so much about Polish internal issues and has a negative image of Poles becasue there are serious problems with corruption or burocracy in Poland ? I doubt it. Are Italians not liked because mismanagement and corruption they have in Italy ? I didn't notice that really.

Have you been born in Poland?

Yes.

Why are you comparing Poland with these countries?

It all started with ant guy saying Poles have bad press because of poverty in Poland, homeless people and so on, I said I don't think so, because then Indians would have far worse press and I don't see it happening, that's it.

Come on, It's almost Christmass :)))
dm2106 - | 3
3 Feb 2013 #116
Over many centuries Poland had been under attack by its neighbors and Poles united under the Polish flag. Extreme nationalism became part of Polish culture. This led to the assimilation of many ethnic groups that lived in Poland for centuries. This is especially true in Eastern Poland in the area traditionally known as Kresy. Today 99% of Polish citizens consider themselves to be Polish but in reality, especially in eastern Poland, there are many many people of Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Armenian, Tatar/Turkish, Greek and even Italian descent (Lublin) that consider themselves Polish. In Bialystok, where my mother is from, almost everyone I know has at least two grandparents who are not of Polish blood. But people will not admit this in public because of the pressure in Poland to assimilate, to be one nation and one people. So I think it's part of Polish culture to not accept outside influences and to reject other cultures.
jon357 63 | 14,255
3 Feb 2013 #117
That's quite a good assessment. We ought to remember that in the 1920s they had to make a country again where there hadn't been one for a century and that they had to do it in a part of the world with shifting borders, loyalties and identities
goofy_the_dog
3 Feb 2013 #118
Yes... however our own little multicultularism ( on tiday's terminology) was always a problem and brought a lot of chaos to the Polish political scene. The minorities were always very much anti-Polish, wanted more benefits, yet they didn't want to go to the army. They were always accused of not integrating into the Polish society, trying to isolate themselves.

About Lithuania as a country? I don't believe that they were a " proper" country, it was for nearly 600 years part of the Commoinwealth, and when finally got their indepedence they wanted Wilno as their capital which was in 95% Polish... for me Lithuania should still be part of the Commonwealth...

Cheers
ismellnonsense - | 118
3 Feb 2013 #119
for me Lithuania should still be part of the Commonwealth...

thats okay
it isnt and wont ever be again
remember
poland and lithuania were partners in the commonwealth
get that
partners

i do enjoy the rantings of people like you
who left poland as quickly as they could
and who wont return
yet you claim to be patriotic
jon357 63 | 14,255
3 Feb 2013 #120
they wanted Wilno as their capital which was in 95% Polish... for me Lithuania should still be part of the Commonwealth...

That's up to the people who live there and as things stand at the moment, they prefer independence.


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