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What makes a man a Pole? what does it mean to be a Pole?


TheOther 6 | 3,692
1 Sep 2013 #181
Don't put words in my mouth, Paulina...

Poland was occupied = Polish version of history
Poland was annexed = History version of the rest of the world

You won't change that.

Meaning - they had to study in German, German history from the German point of view, German literature, to study religion and pray in German.

Much like Poland expected from her minorities after WW1... ;)

Mass was usually held in Latin, by the way, and most ethnic Germans were protestants, not catholics.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2013 #182
You won't change that.

Yes, and it is the accepted view of things.

It doesn't mean much, so I'm not sure why people have a problem with it - Austria under the Anschluss is often said to have been annexed, and the connotation in English (a country coming in and simply taking over) is every bit as bad as occupation.

Did Poland annex or occupy part of Czechoslovakia in 1938? It was a straightforward annexation, not occupation.
TheOther 6 | 3,692
1 Sep 2013 #183
I'm not sure why people have a problem with it

Annexation wouldn't support the popular picture of a continuous Polish nation stretching from the early beginnings, over the time of the partitions to modern day Poland.
Paulina 13 | 3,837
1 Sep 2013 #184
Don't put words in my mouth, Paulina...

I'm not. You wrote it. You want me to quote?

Poland was occupied = Polish version of history
Poland was annexed = History version of the rest of the world

TheOther, what on Earth are you talking about??? ;D LOL!

You won't change that.

TheOther, answer my question, please. Have you ever read my history text-book I studied from at school? Do you have any idea what was written there?

It doesn't mean much, so I'm not sure why people have a problem with it

Who has a problem with it? :D

Annexation wouldn't support the popular picture of a continuous Polish nation stretching from the early beginnings, over the time of the partitions to modern day Poland.

What? What the hell are you talking about?! xD Why wouldn't it support it??
TheOther 6 | 3,692
1 Sep 2013 #185
what on Earth are you talking about?

Paulina, do me a favor and read the thread before you respond.
Paulina 13 | 3,837
1 Sep 2013 #186
I've read most of it. And?

Answer my questions, please. Those are simple questions. I'm sure it won't take much of your time.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Sep 2013 #187
Annexation wouldn't support the picture of a continuous Polish nation stretching from the early beginnings, over the time of the partitions to modern day Poland.

I don't see why not - if you look at the Yugoslav idea of the constituent people also being a nation, then they don't have any break in their history. When you consider all the events between 1795 and 1918, it's obvious that the idea of the Polish nation was still more than alive even if they didn't have control of a territory of their own.

Certainly, the Polish people felt they were under occupation, but the accepted legal view of things is that they weren't.

Wikipedia perhaps has the best definition :

Military occupation is effective provisional control of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity, without the volition of the actual sovereign. The intended temporary nature of occupation, when no claim for permanent sovereignty is made by the occupying entity, distinguishes occupation from annexation.

I think it's also worth questioning what the "Polish" people actually were at that time. I know in the early days of the II RP, people often identified with their local area far more than they did with the idea of Poland - and I think it was the same story in areas such as Galicia under the Austrian administration? Of course, there was a huge Polish minority in the three areas - but how many people were classed as Poles when they actually weren't?

It is a curious footnote in history to see how there were Polonisation campaigns during the Austrian administration.


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