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A loss to Krakow.


dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
12 Jun 2012  #1
I know the guy who set this venture up in the beginning. Giving something to Krakow that would not only be great for the city and it's Universities but also to krk too.

Shame that the krakow aquarium is now closing due one professor that became the director of the institute of systematic's a division of Polish academy of sciences in Krakow wanting not only his rent for owning the building but an extra salary plus bonuses up front as "little extra payments to keep the birds happy".

I will always be the first to shout down people having a go at Poland for the wrong reasons, but this indeed sounds like too many cases from when I first came to live in Krk over 9 years ago, I really thought this was dying out in Krk. Seems not.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
12 Jun 2012  #2
Is it the same guy who owns several hostels too? I think I know who he is...

That's probably entirely due to the PAN paying diabolically low salaries, even by Polish standards.
OP dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
12 Jun 2012  #3
That's probably entirely due to the PAN paying diabolically low salaries, even by Polish standards.

As far as I'm aware, aren't a lot of staff volunteers from the Uni? I've been out of the country for a we while. No doubt find out everything when I get back.

Is it the same guy who owns several hostels too? I think I know who he is...

Sure is. Don't get me wrong, I dont personally like the guy, I know exactly how he ran those hostels, but this truly was a great idea.
Ironside 48 | 9,721
12 Jun 2012  #4
not only his rent for owning the building

A Major mistake, investing in the building he doesn't own.

I must say that PF needs such thread with real issues. Too many nutters reaming free....again !

Dave, you don't know much about politics. Otherwise you wouldn't be surprised by the way those Soviets pretending to be Poles act..
I dare say, there is no much that could be done.
There is no prove of corruption and he is his

right

Only thing you should try contact MP from opposition, nothing to loose.. there must be MP office in Krakow.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
12 Jun 2012  #5
As far as I'm aware, aren't a lot of staff volunteers from the Uni? I've been out of the country for a we while. No doubt find out everything when I get back.

No idea. The aquarium is definitely closing by the way (just checked with someone who knows this sort of thing) - so the story might be true enough.
OP dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
12 Jun 2012  #6
A Major mistake, investing in the building he doesn't own.

I don't think there is a building in Krk of that size and perfect for the job that anyone would sell.

I'm not interested in the politics of this. The aquarium is there for the families of Krk no matter who owns it or wants the profits. I would have thought that local government would be wanting to keep this within the city, at least for local tourism.

I know more of Polish politics than I let on IS, a couple of MPs spent a few bucks having lessons from me (for English that is :D ) but I never really took notice or demanded to know their motives within the political world... most the same as the rest, cutting their own piece of the cake ;)

If I could tell the stories I learnt over the years there I'd write a book, alas I'm not keen too lol

No idea. The aquarium is definitely closing by the way (just checked with someone who knows this sort of thing) - so the story might be true enough.

Of course it is, when some farts in Krk I know about it! I done a lot more than teaching in that city buddy ;)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
12 Jun 2012  #7
Otherwise you wouldn't be surprised by the way those Soviets pretending to be Poles act

Why do you assume that the director is supporting the Government, especially in a heavy PiS city like Krakow?

I would have thought that local government would be wanting to keep this within the city, at least for local tourism.

Could be that they simply aren't interested - is the zoo there owned by the city?
OP dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
12 Jun 2012  #8
Could be that they simply aren't interested - is the zoo there owned by the city?

Owned by local authorities and uni im led to believe. Only went there once. Was annoyed at the psychological signs of being bored shown by the animals, pacing up and down the same route ect.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
12 Jun 2012  #9
A Major mistake, investing in the building he doesn't own.

My experience of landlords in UK business premises is that once you are established they will rape you for everything you have got.

You have to sign a very long term contract and be prepared to move at the end of it.
Wroclaw Boy
12 Jun 2012  #10
Its not the guy thats at fault its the system, most people go for an easy profit if the situation presents it self. In Poland there is less money around plus we have the communist mentality - this basically means they will stoop lower in order to make the cash.
Ironside 48 | 9,721
12 Jun 2012  #11
Why do you assume that the director is supporting the Government, especially in a heavy PiS city like Krakow?

Would you care to provide quote of mine which include "PiS" in this thread?
Much obliged !
pawian 159 | 9,552
12 Jun 2012  #12
Oh la la, something about my home town at last!

Dtaylor, I read the bombastic letter, especially the parts where he explained his motives in setting up the whole enterprise and I instantly smelled the rat. Very funny, indeed. :):):):)

Also, what he accuses his Polish partners of sounds like complete crap.

I don`t have time now but I did some googling on Polish forums and sites and can say the accusations against the businessman are serious and can be easily proven.

Sorry, guys, don`t judge too hastily.
Harry
12 Jun 2012  #13
Also, what he accuses his Polish partners of sounds like complete crap.

Then they'll have no problem at all taking him to court for defaming them.

the accusations against the businessman are serious and can be easily proven.

If you're going to say that those accusations are easy to prove, you'd better be able to prove them when you are asked to do so.

Personally (and I do know the American in question), I'd say that he has very much got the shiitty end of the stick.
pawian 159 | 9,552
12 Jun 2012  #14
If you're going to say that those accusations are easy to prove, you'd better be able to prove them when you are asked to do so.

Personally (and I do know the American in question), I'd say that he has very much got the shiitty end of the stick.

Ooops, I didn`t know you are financially involved.

Sorry.

I'd say that he has very much got the shiitty end of the stick.

Oops, I forgot to say that I don`t believe you.

Sorry.
Harry
12 Jun 2012  #15
Ooops, I didn`t know you are financially involved.

I'm not (and never have been). But you might want to be careful about painting a bull's-eye on yourself.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
12 Jun 2012  #16
But you might want to be careful about painting a bull's-eye on yourself.

What do you mean by that?

Why is this Businessman posting anonymously?
pawian 159 | 9,552
12 Jun 2012  #17
What do you mean by that?

Harry means that the guy is a mafia fellow and Harry knows him very well, so I `d better be careful.

Why is this Businessman posting anonymously?

Guess why! :):):)

Comment from that site:

I've just read the article and it is shocking. It's hard to imagine that it was written by an American. Very sloppy.
Some key points that need addressing:
Isn't the aquarium housed in a listed building? Didn't you ignore the law and make 'alterations' to it? Wasn't that the reason for the delay in it's opening? Isn't it possible that your behavior soured the relationship before the doors opened? What were these legal 'technicalities'? And there is no shred of evidence that this attempted curruption took place!? What do you expect the courts to do!? Answer these questions and you might be taken seriously - and not just a whinging foreigner.


Conflict - story

The problems with the Aquarium started at the very beginning, in 2008. The Polish American cooperation was marred with mutual distrust and clash of interests.

rp.pl/artykul/190124.html

In 2009 Polish partners annuled the contract.

First rumours and articles about closing the Aquarium appeared 2.5 years ago, in Jan 2010.

krakow.naszemiasto.pl/artykul/305368,krakow-wodnej-atrakcji-grozi-likwidacja,id,t.html

The case was taken to court in June 2010

polskatimes.pl/artykul/284061,krakow-sad-zdecyduje-o-losie-akwarium,id,t.html

Since then, the enterprise hasn`t paid the rent. The Institute demanded the payment through the court a few times. Currently, the Aquarium owes 500.000 PLN to the Institute.

lovekrakow.pl/aktualnosci/aquarium-zlikwidowane.-co-ze-zwierzetami_1537.html

and hence today`s ruling.

The main accusation which is easy to prove is the lack of rent payment.

Guys on reef site are very critical about Aquarium Krakow.

nano-reef.pl/index

Statement of the Institute

isez.pan.krakow.pl/Oswiadczenie_Aquarium.pdf
peterweg 36 | 2,316
12 Jun 2012  #18
The article (nor the American investor) tells the whole story. I had a talk with the powers to be and the main sticking point is this: several hundred tons of water in a brick building that's a few hundred years old. The structure simply won't support it. Apparently the old director was very enthusiastic but not very knowledgeable in civic engineering.

Building an Aquarium is a difficult engineering task. This was a crazy idea and a crazy investment.

What is the legality of making a profit from a public building like this??
pawian 159 | 9,552
12 Jun 2012  #19
Quotes from the link which give false view:

This is a completely unique project in Poland and there is nothing like it.

Of course, not true. The Sea Aquarium in Gdynia has been such a place since 1970s, with sharks and turtles.

akwarium.gdynia.pl/multimedia/galeria.php
akwarium.gdynia.pl/multimedia/filmy.html

Other major cities also have such aquariums in their zoos (and Palm Houses in PoznaƄ).

Krakow is not a very family friendly city with very few options on a rainy day to entertain your children.

Again, false.
Actually, the last time we went to that Aquarium was 4 years ago. It was just OK, not better than Krakow zoo and others and I can say there are plenty other things to do in Krakow on a rainy day.

When he broke the contract my legal team realized that he had no right to collect rent from me and the courts have confirmed this. So any claim by him for money is false

Very clever.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
13 Jun 2012  #20
Very clever.

Yes, no contract, no money, no aquarium, no 2.5million investment. Maybe a smart lawyer would have told him to keep paying to keep the contract.

Seems very obviously he could not or did not want to pay the rent. Hardly surprising, as aquariums are not know as a passport to riches - more of a money pit.


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