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What are your experiences of care for your loved ones in hospitals here?


Dirk diggler 10 | 5,118
11 Aug 2018 #31
Also from what I've heard, medicover is bullsh1t and their services suck, it's hard to get appointments and in general.sucks. the Medicover hospitals tend to have very low ratings and bad reviews. Not sure about other private insurance companies in Poland tho....

The private medicine in Poland is quite amazing though and priced very low by western standards. One thing I really like about Poland is doctors still make house calls. That's very rare now in the us. I had an operation for a hernia and I had like 4 nurses tending to my every need for like a week way longer than I needed to recover. I didn't want to leave. The surgery cost me something like 1k usd which is a fraction of what it would've cost me in the US with the mandatory uni student insurance I had at the time
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,138
11 Aug 2018 #32
Highly depends on the hospital from downright awful to excellent in my experience...

I never tried the Cook County Hospital. Hopefully, never will.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
11 Aug 2018 #33
so called constitution that constitutes post-commie system in a country. That all should be scarped and build on new foundations.

That would be good, if the constitution actually hindered modernisation - which it doesn't. Now I am beginning to understand..........I think......OK...........Here's the deal. I will agree to PIS being allowed to continue to exist, on the condition that Kaczynski and Ziobro are exiled as castaways to a desert island, along with that awful white haired man who looks about 200 years old (whatsisname?) All 3=the intolerable face of PIS.

If they (PIS) can finally modernise ZUS (and demolish all the ridiculous oversized ZUS buildings in every big town), then that would be their first real achievement.

Oh , wait a minute - they are still building them! :(
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,118
11 Aug 2018 #34
I never tried the Cook County Hospital. Hopefully, never will.

Luckily I never have either. I won't go to any hospital but Lake Forest and Resurrection. And never Condell - they're the one hospital that will actually serve you, sue you, etc for unpaid medical bills. Every other hospital just writes it off.

I like the medical care in Poland though - personally I've never had any bad experiences and family hasn't either. One hospital my grandma would sometimes get taken to gives bad food but that was really her only complaint..
Atch 17 | 4,087
11 Aug 2018 #35
The private medicine in Poland is quite amazing though

No, sorry not always the case. Mr Atch had a colleague with EnelMed who was told, following some scan or other that his heart was on the right side of his body - yes the doctor himself told him this. They subsequently discovered they had the image turned round the wrong way. Another colleague had an eye problem incorrectly treated by EnelMed again, switched to Medicover who sorted it. Mr Atch has been with both and never needed the services of either up this point when of course it had lapsed. He's now with Medicover again - fingers crossed we stay healthy.

When I had minor surgery in Ireland at the Eye and Ear Hospital in Dublin (look it up, it's great) I had superb treatment on the Irish public health system. I had actually seen the specialist privately and as I didn't have private health insurance he immediately said 'I'll see you at the Eye and Ear'. This guy is a top internationally renowned head and neck surgeon. I had the surgery within two weeks. That would never happen in Poland. The chief anaesthetist came down to see me before the operation too. Great treatment.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,118
11 Aug 2018 #36
That would never happen in Poland.

Yeah I mean its a private business so you're going to have the good and bad. Luckily I personally haven't experienced any bad care in PL - granted I've only gone done stuff mainly related to skin care and medical spa but my grandparents are quite old now so they're at the docs and hospitals all the time. The military hospital in Wroclaw is public and is great but a lot of the other hospitals are sh1t. The

Medicover

I've heard medicover's facilities in warsaw suck... buit again just what I heard...

They subsequently discovered they had the image turned round the wrong way.

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me. There are some doctors that are a few fries short of a happy meal everywhere though. A family member had infections for like a year and was sick all the time, her jaw and lymph nodes swollen, all sorts of ****. They just kept giving her antibiotics in varying strength but she never got better. One day it got really bad and she ended up in the E.R. An ambitious young doctor fresh out of med school saw something strange with her mouth specificall her gums. It turns out she had a dental procedure over a year ago and the dentist left a piece of guaze which like became embedded in her gums and kept getting infected. This was the first doctor that actually listened to her symptoms and gave her a proper check up. Well within literally like 2 days she was totally fine again. And you'd think - these are people who spend years upon years in medical school, some have decades of medical experience and yet they still **** things up royally and some newbie young doc sorts it out... that's how it is unfortunately though...

I tell all my family members and friends, especially those in the USA - you have to be your own advocate, no doctor, pharmacist dentist etc is going to care about your health as much as you do. I encourage them to bring a sort of posse with them to the doctors office for more serious conditions because its like psychology the doctor feels more scrutinized than just 1 on 1 and more people are there to question him, see what he's doing, be a witness in case of medical malpractice, etc.
Atch 17 | 4,087
13 Aug 2018 #37
Why the hell your husband wouldn't be covered in some form is beyond logic (couldn't he have paid the health part of ZUS, not the pension part?)

Well you see he was covered by private health insurance in his job. When he left the job he knew he'd be starting another one in about two months. What neither of us realised was that he should have gone along to some office or other and registered in some shape or form because your additonal entitlement to public health care apparently lapses within 30 days of finishing a job.

In Ireland if you just exist you're covered! Your employment status has nothing to do with your entitlement to heath care. If you're not entitled to an unemployment payment for whatever reason, you can still sign on for credits to keep your social insurance record going for your state pension and of course you don't pay anything. But your social insurance contributions don't affect your right to health care. Same in the UK isn't it? The idea that a Polish citizen is not automatically covered but has to be either employed or 'unemployed' is completely weird. I cannot see the point of it. What does it say about a society when they don't take care of their own flesh and blood when they're ill?

You should see what Mr Atch paid in ZUS last year alone and he was entitled to nothing, not even an ambulance let alone treatment. Most of his money is going on the 500+ program probably, to support the children of people who can't afford to have kids in the first place and whom the government is encouraging to have more.

Just another point, in Ireland if you have a medical emergency you call 999, no private hotline for people with private health insurance. Everyone gets equal access to the ambulance service. I was looking at Medicare's emergency hotline info and they explicitly state that they can:

"organise medical interventions by the Emergency Service in cases of a medical crisis or accidents"

That's an absolute disgrace. The idea of calling a middleman who negotiates an amublance for you.................outrageous. Nobody should be getting an ambulance because they can pull strings.

There was talk about Poland moving to proper universal care like the UK but the government has shelved it for now (I think)

It won't happen under PIS Dolno. That kind of thing is not their priority.

felt I was being financially and socially evaluated before a decision to treat me was made.

Yes, that sums it up perfectly. That's exactly what Mr Atch was trying to express when he said he was treated ok-ish because he looked respectable.

The Polish healthcare system is terribly patchy and inconsistent. Years ago I had strep throat while I was living in Warsaw and the fuss that was made. You'd think I had something terminal, the swab tests and lab reports etc before I got a few antibiotics. On the other hand you can die of a burst appendix because they won't send an ambulance. God Almighty, I told the doctor myself, look it's strep throat, I've had it twice before. Of course they wanted to get the 285 zl out of me for the swab test. As a result I had to wait three days before I was prescribed anything for it and it got much worse in the meantime. Any GP with basic experience would recognise it on spot for what it was and treat it accordingly, not faff around with unneccessary, expensive lab tests whilst the infection gets worse, very irresponsible and unprofessional.

Thank you for your kind thoughts Doug and Donlo - Mr Atch is on the mend now but he lost 7kgs in five days.
mafketis 34 | 11,898
13 Aug 2018 #38
t a Polish citizen is not automatically covered but has to be either employed or 'unemployed' is completely weird. I cannot see the point of it.

I know people in the healthcare field (some of whom have been involved in various reforms).

One problem is that after 45 years of communism and the shock therapy of the early 1990s hospitals were left drowning in debt (where many remain). The original reform around 1999 or so (kasa chorych) was based on the German Krankenkasse system with a big dose of regional autonomy.

The idea was that nobody knew what would work given the financial realities of the time which tended toward the very grim and so regional kasy could experiment some and when a solution that worked well was found it could be adopted by others and if something didn't work others knew not to try it. It was slowly improving but widespread dissatisfaction led to restructuring into a centralized system an election platform and thus the NFZ was born.

There's a lot more, but one of the basic problems is that the public always wants more healthcare than any system can provide (esp in a country full of hypochondriacs) and so healthcare funding mechanisms are always being fiddled with.
Ironside 51 | 11,339
13 Aug 2018 #39
PIS

Whatever! If you think I support PiS you're grossly mistaken. I just prefer them over those crooks from PO or post-commies. PiS is s centrist left leaning party, all issues you have with them as a champagne socialist have only one cause or roots - majority of the Polish society at large share their view on LGBT and other progressive crap you're so enamored with. If that would be other way around PiS would be first to embrace that BS.

Their first achievement was a dissolution of WSI.

Most of his money is going on the 500+ program probably

Better than if that would go on some dishrag's new villa on Tenerife as it was common with PO in charge.
By the way I have heard that in Ireland they have a major issue with their health care - some even challenge it call it Ponzi scheme and such.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
13 Aug 2018 #40
7kgs in five days.

Jesus! Serious stuff. Been there, done that - but not in 5 days!
Now about why Poles aren't automatically covered. I asked one of the venerable 500 medical council doctors (great guy) about this. My limitless respect for him went down just a tad when he told me "You've got a "newish" car outside? So you can afford to pay for medical care, can't you? " He wouldn't have it when I said I'd already paid, and he was adamant that health is a service that the individual should cost for, like bread and butter.

That view is is directly at odds with the perceived view of the doctor in the UK, who has declared the Hippocratic oath and is there to serve, supports the NHS, and does not decide to become a doctor to be comfortably off as an immediate priority.

I could have just said that the NFS system is collapsing and is part based on thievery and part on total subjectivity. The fact that Mr Atch lost all that weight tells us that the hospital didn't want him dying on them. When I had the dreaded Silesian pneumonia, the system leapt into action, simply I suspect because the paperwork involved with processing a dead Dougpol would have inconvenienced them, or maybe because with all their ill miners with that illness they recognise the serious of it in time.

There's a lot more

Revealing post. Thanks. There is of course the old chesnut that Atch referred to - "the blowing things out of all proportion" - the week long stay in hospital for a first time migraine sufferer.....huge sums wasted because it's public money, and so, paradoxically, "there's plenty more where that came from."

500+ program probably, to support the children of people who can't afford to have kids in the first place

Should be means tested too. A lot of my learners are professionals with 2 or 3 kids. "What do you do with your 500 plus", I ask them. "Oh, it's banked every month to help them put a deposit on a flat when they're 21......."
Atch 17 | 4,087
13 Aug 2018 #41
Should be means tested too.

It absolutely should.

I have heard that in Ireland they have a major issue with their health care - some even challenge it call it Ponzi scheme and such.

The major issue in Ireland is the length of waiting lists to access surgery for non-life threatening but chronic and often very painful conditions. The other issue is shortage of hosptial beds leading to people on trollies in corridors for protracted periods of time. It's more to do with poor management and a badly organized system. There's certainly no suggestion of a 'Ponzi' scheme which suggests deliberate fraud.

Also for years people abused the fact that you were seen for free at an emergency room 24hrs a day and turned up with kids who had a scratch on their finger, that type of thing. 'Jaysus doctor, she'll get blood poisonin' or a queasy tummy after stuffing themselves with sweeties and Tayto crisps at a birthday party. Now there's a charge of 100 euros in the emergency room which people complain about. We also have a charge of about 80 euros per night for a hospital bed (but there's a cap on how much you can be charged if you're in for a long stay or have to go back for further treatment, can't remember how much but it's under a grand over the course of a year). Nobody pays for surgery.

However, certain groups of people are exempt from any charges. In Ireland we have the system of the Medical Card which is issued to people of limited means and entitles them to free treatment in the emergency room and free hospital beds in all circumstances. You also pay a max of 20 euros per month for prescribed medicines if you have the medical card. If you have a chronic, incurable or long term illness your meds are all free.

So for example when I had to have a tonsil out for biopsy it went like this:

I was a working person and not entitled to a medical card.
I went to see my GP, paid 40 euros for the consultation.
She looked at my throat, said 'ooh don't like the look of that, I'd better refer you to a specialist.'
Now because it could have been cancer, I needed to be seen quickly. If I'd gone public, the consultation would have been free butI wouldn't have a choice of specialist and I would have had to take the next available appointment with the first person who could see me, it would have been a two/three week wait.

I decided to go privately and paid 180 euros for an appointment within about ten days.
I saw the Prof at the Blackrock Clinic where he had his private practice.
He said 'that needs to come out immediately so we can see whether it's malignant.'
I said 'can't afford to have the op here, no private health insurance.'
He said 'no problem, I'll see you as a public patient at the Eye and Ear hospital. How soon can you come in?'
Two weeks later I had the op, one night's stay in the hospital. 60 euros was the charge back then.
Total time form GP visit to biopsy, under four weeks. Total cost 280 euros. I'm happy with that.
No further charges for follow up visits.

Bear in mind, all of this would have been free of charge if I'd had a medical card.

However, there is definitely an issue in Ireland with private health insurance providers because everyone I knew who had it (usually VHI) complained about the amount they were charged for x, y and z despite paying a fortune each month. And certainly there is no difference in the quality of care you receive privately to publicly. Private hospitals and clinics are few and far between and all the surgeons work in the public hospitals alongside their private practices.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,343
13 Aug 2018 #42
Now there's a charge of 100 euros in the emergency room which people complain about.

Any charge that would be proposed for any medical service provided by the National Health Service in Poland would be inevitably turned down by the government of whatever party in power because of strong public resistance to it in Poland.

I shall remind you that they had managed to introduce a very modest charge for seeing a GP in the Czech Republic (about 5 zloty) to put a curb on old pensioners basically visiting their GP for a chat and as a result the previous Czech governments fell. Nevertheless, the reform has stayed on.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
14 Aug 2018 #43
Any charge

You don't get it Z - we already pay. It's called ZUS. Just like in the UK. Ever been there? It's exactly the same. Except in the UK, you pay "ZUS" you get respect.

So ******* simple.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,118
14 Aug 2018 #44
One good thing about Poland is that medicine is cheap. You guys don't know how lucky you are that you don't habe to spend a fortune on meds. Some of the exact same popular meds in the us like pantoprazole cost hundreds in the us when in poland you cam buy them for a few zloty. Plus many doctors are willing to write you scripts for whatever the patient claims is working best for them, not what their pharna sales rep tells the doctor is best for the patient. My grandma spends around 300 zlory s month on her meds which is still a lot. In the us though I doubt eben a grand a month would cover everything though.

Oh and codeine is otc which is nice too incase you have a bad headache, sprained ankle etc and you don't habe to go to a doctor, wait for an hour to be seen, then get billed a few hundred for it, etc etc just to have relief.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
14 Aug 2018 #45
One good thing about Poland is that medicine is cheap.

Er....Dirk.....in Britain when you get old and ill, medicine is even cheaper.
As in, free. And that's how it should be. Respect. Here, the old are fleeced and pitied.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,343
14 Aug 2018 #46
You don't get it Z - we already pay

You don't get it, Dougpol - providing a Czech example I was refering to Ireland where additional charges have been introduced despite the fact they already pay to their ZUS. Or do you think they don't have any Irish ZUS?

We also have a charge of about 80 euros per night for a hospital bed

there's a charge of 100 euros in the emergency room which people complain about.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just like in the UK. Ever been there?

No, I haven't. You don't know it yet? - the UK isn't the navel of the world, so there is really no need for anyone to be there.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
14 Aug 2018 #47
there is really no need for anyone to be there

2 million Eastern Europeans seem to differ Ziemowit. And yes, I was shocked that the Irish also charge. Good old Britain with one of the best (free) national health services in the world. If they dismantled it, there would be huge rioting. We don't take **** you see, unlike the Poles, who just lay over and submit to their disgusting "masters" in Warsaw.
Atch 17 | 4,087
14 Aug 2018 #48
Good old Britain with one of the best (free) national health services in the world.

Yes it is. However, there's never enough money for the health service anywhere in the world I think - maybe it's different in Scandanavia or Switzerland, I'd have to check that out but anyway............ British hospitals, including amazing places like Great Ormond Street, have to constantly raise funds and seek charitable donations. If they were relying purely on government funding they wouldn't be able to provide the services they do.

Regarding the Irish charge, that's a relatively recent thing. I think it came in as a result of the banks fiasco and the austerity budget thing. They're now talking about abolishing it.
Ironside 51 | 11,339
14 Aug 2018 #49
As in, free.

Hmm....free?

in the UK, you pay "ZUS.

free? Commies like you are just plainly dumb.

2 million Eastern Europeans seem to differ Ziemowit.

3 million of Ukrainians i.e. Eastern Europeans choose Poland not to mention others, including some bitter Englanders.

Good old Britain with one of the best (free) national health services in the world.

national health service is not free by definition and being a one of the best doesn't mean it is objectively very good by any stretch of imagination.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,343
14 Aug 2018 #50
3 million of Ukrainians i.e. Eastern Europeans choose Poland not to mention others, including some bitter Englanders.

Bitter Englanders go to live in Spain in large numbers as well. Even if it's much warmer and there is less rain in Spain than in the UK, I don't understand why they decide to leave the UK paradise and its excellent health service for Spain. It seems to be a kind of suicide for them.
Ironside 51 | 11,339
14 Aug 2018 #51
We don't take **** you see, unlike the Poles,

Well after all you fought world war II to t he last Pole.

A total death toll per 1000 people:
Poland - 220
UK - 8
you were talking?
mafketis 34 | 11,898
14 Aug 2018 #52
there's never enough money for the health service anywhere in the world

that's the key, right there. every system in the world is undergoing constant fiddling either in the public eye or behind the scenes.

I was talking with someone in the business and asked about the coverage issue.

to simplify things a bit, part of the idea was to make sure that people were paying into the system, so they think of themselves as stakeholders rather than just having the old commie period "gimme gimme gimme" attitude. it might not have worked completely but the old attitude was simply unsustainable.

he says almost everyone now is covered in some way and your husband's case sounds like a bit of a fluke (overestimating the time he'd be covered while between jobs and not getting the interim necessary paperwork done and really bad timing).

I'm sure I don't have to explain why coverage is not extended indefinitely once a person stops paying in...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,343
14 Aug 2018 #53
Regarding the Irish charge, that's a relatively recent thing. They're now talking about abolishing it.

You seem to apologise to Dougpol for the health policy forged in Ireland. You really don't have to, Ms Atch. Ireland is an independent country and doesn't need to follow the example of her former disgusting "masters" in London.

disgusting "masters" in Warsaw.

mafketis 34 | 11,898
14 Aug 2018 #54
We don't take **** you see, unlike the Poles

How long would it have taken the British to stare down the USSR and topple communism nonviolently?
Atch 17 | 4,087
14 Aug 2018 #55
I'm sure I don't have to explain why coverage is not extended indefinitely once a person stops paying in...

No of course. But in Ireland you don't have to pay anything to be covered...........but then on the other hand we have the hospital bed charge, it's sometimes known as 'the bed tax'!

You seem to apologise to Dougpol

Not in the least - and I DID point out to him how the UK NHS is underfunded and needs to raise extra money to provide the quality of service which it does.

disgusting "masters"

Well sadly now Ziem, if history had unfolded differently Poland would have liked very much to be somebody's master. What about all that business of demanding 'colonies' from the League of Nations between the wars?? You'd earmarked a few likely places and wanted to be given them!! Wasn't the first time either. Apparently you'd been angling for colonies since the middle of the 1500s but couldn't get yourselves together sufficiently to make it a reality. The problem may partly have been not being a maritime nation.
OP Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
14 Aug 2018 #56
you were talking?

About the poll tax. Which we rightly rioted against, and got rid of Thatcher. Poles on the other hand, ***** about Sunday closing but do sweet FA about it.

How long would it have taken the British to stare down the USSR and topple communism nonviolently?

I was referring to this authoritarian government of today Maf. Poles seem to like authoritarianism. It truly baffles me as to why, but somebody considerably brighter than me will be along to explain no doubt....

Commies like you

Not communist. A Labour voter. There's a difference. Britain can afford social justice; that doesn't include handing 500 zl out to every Dick and Harry/rich toff/lazy arsed who can't be bothered to travel for a job/insert etc etc.... Oh, I forgot, you're not a PIS supporter... but likely voted for them anyway, so the next generation have to plug the huge budget gap (Hang on a minute - you don't even live here! I almost forgot...)

make sure that people were paying into the system

And God, do we pay....and please tell your friend we ain't best pleased with what we get out of it. I refer your friend to the first post in the thread. I will never forget that sorry episode and it adequately describes the total lack of respect that the population still endures from time to time, even in this European age, from those who are employed to supposedly deal sympathetically with such crises.
mafketis 34 | 11,898
14 Aug 2018 #57
And God, do we pay....a

Actually not that much, healthcare as a part of the total budget is very small in Poland compared to some countries. The answer is that healthcare taxes need to be sharply increased. Will you be cooooool with that?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
14 Aug 2018 #58
No problem from my point of view as long as the burden is shared fairly. It can be progressive, but it shouldn't be only workers paying more.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,118
14 Aug 2018 #59
Er....Dirk.....in Britain when you get old and ill, medicine is even cheaper.

Well so is north Korea's.... question is though how is the quality of care? Is it like Canada where you habe to wait months to see a doctor and perhaps years for a specialist? Several years for a surgery? Also is it all medicines or just cheap generics? I'm assuming you probably have to wait till your a certain age to get free meds?

We don't take **** you see, unlike the Poles, who just lay over and submit to their disgusting "masters" in Warsaw.

Oh Doug I beg to differ... The pl government especially today is very much in tune with what polish people desire. Id say probably more than the uk. Although both much more so than the us.

Ive never experienced the nhs but some family members who live in UK overall have a good opinion. They've told me many polish women work as nurses and other hospital staff. The NHS would run like a clock if you guys could get all the migrants to get to work and stop leeching benefits. Till that happens your NHS is doomed to end up like our Medicare.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,343
14 Aug 2018 #60
tell your friend we ain't best pleased with what we get out of it. I refer your friend to the first post in the thread.

Are you crazy or are you on on drugs or both? Dirk never has been a friend of Maf ...

What about all that business of demanding 'colonies' from the League of Nations between the wars?

Don't be silly, Ms Atch. It was more like a playground for some old-boy morons ("Liga Morska i Kolonialna" was their name) whom no one was taking seriously even in pre-war Poland.

Apparently you'd been angling for colonies since the middle of the 1500s but couldn't get yourselves together sufficiently to make it a reality.

Where you did you get that from, I wonder? Technically, in the 17th century we did indeed possess a colony somewhere in the Carrabean through the Duchy of Courland and Semigalia whose rulers were some strange vassals to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. As far as I know that territory (a small island, nothing to be compared to an empire over which the sun never set) had been eventually grasped by the greedy British whose appetite for new colonies was insatiable. And be assured that we did not receive a penny of reparations from the nasty Brits for stealing that island which is something that Doug may ponder upon when he is sober again ...

The only de facto (but not de iure) colony of Poland was once Ukraine ...


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