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What do decent Poles think about true rightists ?


mafketis 19 | 6,905
12 Mar 2019  #91
according to statistics - more than 90%, to a greater or lesser degree, is.

Even in my first visit to Poland in the PRL I could tell that Polish people were not super religious, Catholicism in Poland is always strongest when it can be tied into a political agenda. Using the church to manifest resistance to communism is one example, the former strength of the very political Radio Maryja (catering to those having trouble adapting to a non-communist reality) is another.

There's no political function to catholicism at present and so it's weakening.

I really think that the practice of catholicism helped Poland negotiate the end of communism much better than some countries with weaker or eradicated religious traditions (Hungary, former ZSRR countries) so I'm not so happy at the weakened position of the church but it's floundering at present (and Rome is doing nothing to help....)
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
12 Mar 2019  #92
There's no political function to catholicism at present and so it's weakening.

I think it's actually quite notable how weak the church is here, politically. They seem to have settled into a situation where they'll support whoever pays them off, but they simply aren't able to actually influence national politics on any meaningful scale. They've failed with abortion, they failed with refugees, and I can't actually think of any successes that they've had.
mafketis 19 | 6,905
12 Mar 2019  #93
they simply aren't able to actually influence national politics on any meaningful scale

weren't they in favor of stores closing on sundays? if so, it hasn't worked out for them.

I worry about it a little, I think it would not be great if the church gets too weak (they might be needed in the future) but they seem committed to failure at present.
Spike31 2 | 877
12 Mar 2019  #94
Using the church to manifest resistance to communism is one example

That's how it manifests itself. Church was a safe haven during communist era and it also helped greatly to erode that leftist dystopia.

There's no political function to catholicism at present and so it's weakening.

It will have its political function soon enough with a surge of LGBT-qwerty movement.

Still, most Poles are conservatives at heart and prefer natural order of things. And natural order is based on classical heritage and Christianity.

Stalin has tried hard and couldn't change it, 50 years of communism couldn't change it, and hell, some '68 generation demoralized leftist from Brussels won't change it either :-)
mafketis 19 | 6,905
12 Mar 2019  #95
It will have its political function soon enough with a surge of LGBT-qwerty movement.

it's not in a good position for that.... considering sexual abuse by priests... (that's what I mean when I say they need to get their house in order).

Those in glass houses....

(I am waiting for the media to pay attention to sexual abuse in yeshivas and madrassas too...)
dasdasdsa
12 Mar 2019  #96
Probably. Nothing is free. Surgeons spend 12 years in school that's why they make 300 400k USD a year.

So you agree then? She claims by her own words she was able to transition from a creative field, writing or translations, into coding with one three month bootcamp course (maybe an online course I didnt dig). How probably is that? Even the course you mentioned in Wroclaw is morning till night hardcore bootcamp probably every day or five days a week for six months not three. And I am willing to bet most of those people come in there with some coding experience from their free time or as a hobby as that is really a lifestyle or something you grow up being. You do not just become a hacker or nerd waking up one morning.

IDK about graphic designers. There is an over abundance of them at the moment and they don't make very much

Yes, but dont writers as well? How is that different than being a writer? Wouldnt it be a step up at least from writing like what she did since it takes way more skill and patience and being unique to produce anything worthy of note when it comes to graphic design these days? Particularly like you said with so much competition out there?

I think she must have slept with someone as a way in or her boyfriend or something worked there.

Also to add, regarding the graphic design stuff. It still puzzles me why so many people are doing it considering if what you say is true it actually would be easier learning to code than learning to graphic design. Ive been spending all of the past year trying to learn Illustrator and have an unfinished course sitting on my iPad ready for me to watch but it is just so complex and to be able to fine tune even a brush or a stroke right and be able to do things just out of the mind is quite puzzling and often mind boggling not to mention if you do not do it for like three days you already forget stuff. I imagine really mastering graphic design or even one program like Illustrrator is probably as much work as learning to code. Don't you agree? So why do they get paid so much less and why does everyone wanna do it?
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
12 Mar 2019  #97
It will have its political function soon enough with a surge of LGBT-qwerty movement.

Except it won't. The church doesn't want to get into a fight, because they're already reeling from revelations over the last few months.

Church was a safe haven during communist era

For snitches too, such as that disgusting piece of work in Gdańsk.
gdgdfgdfg
12 Mar 2019  #98
Here is what she wrote:
blog.annaspysz.com/post/183347784494/freelancing-by-the-numbers-2018?fbclid=IwAR074iWKOZjDBBmYhdp_4G6gITlzcUir7ULcXKcdaSn8fx_huMA11ClHEes

By the way, where do freelancers go in Warsaw to pick up chicks. Which event or social meeetup is freelance friendly for scoring?

Oh I also forgot to add, you also gotta wonder why creative work apps are so freaking expensive. Coding is like free or almsot free. You just need some runtime languages you can usually download for free like Java or even just a txtpad. But to be a graphic designer you gotta literally spend hundreds of dollars or be trainrobbed by Adobe just for either Illustrator or Photoshop, not to mention a brand new iPad that actually supports the stylus (most likely pro model until only like few months ago when the 2018 model supported it I only have 2017) or one of those Wacom tablets that also cost hundreds of dollars. ANd you say so many people want to get into this? Why?

Good stuff she has that Polish look even, but decided to come back to Portland probably for some American dude for some reason: annaspysz_=_

Her book is great though: amazon.com/Essential-Guide-Being-Polish/dp/0985062304/#_=_
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
12 Mar 2019  #99
Decent Poles are true rightists and true rightists are decent Poles.

I would like it to be true. Unfortunately, the reality is utterly opposite. Sad.

It will have its political function soon

The more politics in the Church, the more believers it will lose each year. The times have changed and we don`t struggle for independence like in communist times.
Spike31 2 | 877
12 Mar 2019  #100
it's not in a good position for that.... considering sexual abuse by priests...

Yes, the Church itself has to be clear out of homosexuals which are over-represented in this institution and are demoralising it from within. I think abolishing celibacy and letting priests have families would be a good step.

The times have changed and we don`t struggle for independence like in communist times.

But yes we do. Now we have to struggle for our cultural identity.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,267
12 Mar 2019  #101
How probably is that?

IDK I don't work on the tech side. Some languages are easier than others, but spending a few months all day to learn a basic language doesn't seem unreasonable. She likely only knows one language though. I know community colleges provide courses for people who want to learn to code, program, develop, etc. Now it seems certification for tech positions is more important than any 4 year degree.

Yes, but dont writers as well? How is that different than being a writer?

It isn't. Vast majority of journos and writers are paid very little. Recently there's been a mass firing of journos at BuzzFeed. That's because writing about 'gender issues' provides no value in a capitalist society. Every feminist with a blog already so that for free. No reason to keep such a person on the payroll, even for 30k a year.
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
13 Mar 2019  #102
I think abolishing celibacy and letting priests have families would be a good step.

Wow, I am amazed you are saying it. Point for you.

Now we have to struggle for our cultural identity.

I am not afraid of Poland losing cultural identity. Polish culture is strong enough to accomodate and integrate any immigrants.
mafketis 19 | 6,905
14 Mar 2019  #103
Within reasonable numbers... and not supported by excessive accommodation.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,374
14 Mar 2019  #104
Still, most Poles are conservatives at heart and prefer natural order of things.

Society is changing quickly in Poland.

For example, same-sex registered partnerships were accepted by 33% of Poles in 2013 (that is, in the sixth year of the liberal PO government in power), while today (in the fourth year of the conservative PiS government in power) this figure has reached 56%. [All data according to IPSOS polls]
Spike31 2 | 877
14 Mar 2019  #105
I am not afraid of Poland losing cultural identity. Polish culture is strong enough to accomodate and integrate any immigrants.

Immigrants are on one side and cultural marxism is on another side of the same coin. Obviously some immigrants are less dangerous that some of the citizens who hate its own country and/or some useful idiots who are very prone to indoctrination and work against its own fatherland in a good fate.

Here's what Yuri Bezmenov, a former KGB agent who defected to the US has to say about 'useful idiots'. It's very interesting to know what the 'other side' has to say:

youtube.com/watch?v=K4kHiUAjTvQ

And it also have to be take into account that there are different kind of immigrants: those who adopt and submit to the values presented by a host and those who come to destroy the established order in a host country.

So I'm not against all immigration per se, but I would be very selective about source of immigration and pick only those who are compatible with Poles.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,267
14 Mar 2019  #106
And that's the EUs beef with Poland. They don't like the fact we took in ukrainians but not middle easterners and Arabs. God forbid a sovereign nation decides who it let's into their country. They literally said we're not allowed to do that lol that's how crazy the social marxists in the EU have become.

[All data according to IPSOS polls]

Funny how you left out how the same poll shows the majority of poles are still against gay marraige.
Torq 26 | 2,368
14 Mar 2019  #107
Polish culture is strong enough to accomodate and integrate any immigrants.

It was always like that, wasn't it? All those Scots, Dutch, Tatars etc. who settled here, they are all proper Poles now. We are a bit like Borg (only more benevolent). ;)

I'm not against all immigration per se, but I would be very selective about source of immigration and pick only those who are compatible with Poles.

Well, considering the sheer scale of immigration nowadays, it is certainly a good idea to introduce some sort of control/selection mechanism, but I think Poland is doing just that at the moment.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
14 Mar 2019  #108
Poland effectively lets anyone in as long as they meet the criteria relating to income and purpose of stay.

Why it's like that, I don't know, but the government seem to be remarkably unwilling to cap the number of non-EU migrants.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,690
14 Mar 2019  #109
Yep. 5 Syrian lads run a couple of stalls in my local market. They are from Homs - which disproves the official nonsense about no immigrants from other EU states.

PS they speak very transactional Polish too.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
14 Mar 2019  #110
Yep. 5 Syrian lads run a couple of stalls in my local market

Yep, I know a couple here as well. Not to mention the Indian blokes everywhere delivering stuff.
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
14 Mar 2019  #111
From name calling, to glittering generalities, to transference, to personal testimonies, to pretending to be "plain folk"

Wow, translating those terms took me a while. :) Thanks.
That`s really amazing. I hadn`t read or even seen the propaganda manual book you are talking about, yet I used all the techniques described there. It seems I have learnt them all in the forum. Can I be proud of myself for being such a dilligent student of classic masters of propaganda? :)
Shitonya Brits
14 Mar 2019  #112
I hadn`t read or even seen the propaganda manual book...It seems I have learnt them all in the forum.

Not at all. As a PRL relic, your anti-nationalist indoctrination was completed a very long time ago.

Indeed, "Vladimir Lenin and the Bolsheviks were officially opposed to nationalism as being reactionary, a bourgeois creation, and contrary to the interests of proletarian class struggle and communist revolution."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_socialist_patriotism

The anti-nationalist rhetoric you are parroting today is the same as it was all those decades ago. The sentiment has been deeply inculcated in you.

The propaganda procedures you are using today are the same as they were all those decades ago. The techniques come naturally to you.

So I suppose you can be proud of this in your own sort of way. You were obviously taught to be a good Soviet puppet and have shown everyone on the forum that you are still able to make use of those old talents of yours even today.

Well done! :)
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
15 Mar 2019  #113
As a PRL relic, your anti-nationalist indoctrination was completed a very long time ago.

Hey, it seems you are suffering from split personality again. In Women`s rights thread and others you stubbornly claim I am a nasty nationalist. What is wrong with you? We are really worried....

But it is amusing anyway, so you can keep it like that.:)
Shitonya Brits
16 Mar 2019  #114
you are suffering from split personality again

Nope. I already explained this to you in the Women's Rights thread you started:

Every post you make falls flat as they are full of contradictions which you simply cannot defend and you know it.

Read it here if you don't believe it: https://polishforums.com/life/women-fight-rights-manifa-events-84620/#msg1679219

You are a PRL-Pole. Soviet doctrine opposed nationalism and being programmed many decades ago it should be no surprise that you started this anti-nationalist thread.

You claimed in this thread you knew nothing about propaganda but this isn't true as pointed out to you above. So right there is a contradiction on your part.

I also pointed out to you that although you claim to be anti-nationalist you have repeatedly called on Lithuania to recognize what you regard as a Polish minority permanently living there for generations and accommodate them with Polish language instruction and bilingual signage. So right there is another contradiction.

You then contradicted yourself about this too when you claimed elsewhere about your shared belief that Poles desired to be "fully European". So why on Earth are you trying to force Lithuanians to go through the trouble and expense of forcing a mere sliver of their reluctant citizens to learn Polish when they have no connection to Poland? This is linguistic imperialism! And the EU politburo members who rule over you could easily charge you with thoughtcrime. Indeed, one EU Soviet official had this to say about the outdated notion of having national identities:

thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/29937-giddy-globalists-france-s-macron-says-true-dane-true-frenchman-does-not-exist

Giddy Globalists: France's Macron Says True Dane, True Frenchman "Does Not Exist"

And your contradictions don't stop there!

In another thread on Racial Diversity in Poland you rhetorically asked how wonderful it would be to see Blacks and Asians recite classic pieces of Polish literature. But in true nationalist form you also said that you would find racial diversity in Poland "amusing" and therefore immigrant Blacks and Asians would be little more than court jesters which could you "tolerate" (but only as long as they kept you entertained, obviously).

You also previously qualified Polish citizens like John Godson as being of "African origin" to distance yourself from them with the implication they were not really Polish.

All of this is pretty rich coming from a PRL-era Pole like yourself who has no legitimate cultural connection to the 1st or 2nd Republics (true heritage Poland). Even the Polish spoken today is different from back then. If you went back in time you would be foreign to true Poles as soon as you opened your mouth.

Regarding Blacks and Asians reciting Polish literature for your amusement, this too exposes your lurking nationalism and simmering anti-diversity sentiment.

If you truly valued diversity then why should immigrants in Poland adapt to you?

If you genuinely want diversity in Poland as you repeatedly boast on here then it is you who must look forward and find a way to live side by side with new Poles.

It is you who must realise that new Poles will claim their space in Poland and bring their cultures, languages and habits with them to fill it.

It is not the new Poles who will need to integrate but it is you who will need to integrate into your new diverse Poland.

But are you ready for the entire world which you beckon to come to Poland in literally every contradictory post of yours? Are you really?

Nah, you're not. Like I said, you are PRL-era relic and one who hasn't been put to the test of living non-stop in a racially and religiously diverse country with laws that enforce it with consequences if you don't go along and get along. But it won't take long for reality to smack you over your sleepy head and wake you up. As soon as you realise you personally are the visible and statistical minority in Poland then guaranteed your self-preservation instinct will kick in and you will be the one trying to claim refuge in Hungary. And I sincerely hope they turn you away. :)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,267
16 Mar 2019  #115
@Shitonya Brits

Honestly though, your insults are a bit unfair since even the PRL relics would hate to be compared to modern day cultural marxists. Can you imagine a guy like jaruzelski or gierek telling poles they're gonna start teaching kids about fags, give out gender reassignmeng surgeries or invite in millions of africans?
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
16 Mar 2019  #116
Nope. I already explained this to you in the Women's Rights thread you started:

Sorry, if you want to reach me, you must write shorter posts. I just skip any nonsense of yours if it is bigger than 5 lines. :):)
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
16 Mar 2019  #117
Sorry, if you want to reach me, you must write shorter posts.

No, Pawian. Don't you enjoy his lengthy diatribes that no-one is actually reading except himself?

As an incel, he has nothing else to do with his time anyway.
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
16 Mar 2019  #118
No, Pawian. Don't you enjoy his lengthy diatribes that no-one is actually reading except himself?

I did it a few times before and I felt like the character of In search of Lost Time. :) I still read his/her posts but only the beginning. :)
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
17 Mar 2019  #119
Don't you enjoy his lengthy diatribes that no-one is actually reading except himself?

Well, eventually I did find time to read his/her last post and it is amusing, indeed. The problem is that if I tried to relate to all arguments presented there, I would have to quote 20 or more times and then I would further annoy mods/Admin which I prefer to avoid in order to spare them unnecessary frustration.

Dear SB, can you write shorter diatribes so that I have a chance to debate with you? :) 5 lines? Ok, let`s compromise, 7. And my last word is 8. I will never extend it to 9.

E.g,. you can only type the following and I will perfectly know what you mean, no need to elaborate:

You are a PRL-Pole.

Polish Righteous Lover. You are so right. My wife fully agrees with you. :):)
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
17 Mar 2019  #120
The problem is that if I tried to relate to all arguments presented there

In fairness, it's a struggle to understand what his argument is. As far as I can gather, his diatribes seem to focus on some sort of mythical Pole that lives in North America and retains "real" Poland, while actual Polish people that speak Polish are somehow "Soviet fakes".

It's obviously a case of insecurity ;)

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