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What do decent Poles think about true rightists ?


pawian 143 | 7,217    
  3 Mar 2019  #1
By rightists I mean both standard and radical, primarily from Poland (e.g., PiS, nationalists, far right etc) but also abroad.

Well, I am afraid decent Poles` opinion about right wingers isn`t too positive. I can say it from my own experience of talking to many righteous people in Poland.

Here are the reasons, the order is random.

Reason 1 - Negative attitude to the EU
Rightwingers generally oppose the EU, claiming it is the source of various rotten ideas, such as e.g., gay marriages or Muslim immigrant issue. However, most Poles support the EU, seeing many benefits in the membership. For them, their eternal dream of becoming fully European instead of merely Eastern European nation is gradually taking real shape.

Reason 2 - Contemptuous attitude to women
Rightists can`t get rid of old traditional views on women - their role is to bear children, run the house, take care of the family, satisfy male sexual needs etc. Most of all, women should obey their male partners as they are believed to be weaker and less intelligent. Decent people can`t accept such views, obviously women are equal to males, not inferior.

Reason 3 - Intolerance
Rightists don`t like diversity, they perceive it as suspicious and even dangerous, that is why certain groups and minorities are discriminated by them. Sometimes I get an impression that rightists would like to round up all Jews, blacks, femminists, gays and other LGBT, Muslim immigrants etc and close them in concentration camps so that they don`t spoil the ideal world with their stinking presence. The same with people who show a little tolerance and compassion towards minorities. It is natural that decent people cant`t tolerate such discrimination.

Reason 4 - Brutal methods
Rightists do not hesitate to use radical, sometimes dirty methods to achieve their goals - lies, manipulation, verbal abuse, violence, brutality. I mentioned concentration camps before as a metaphor, but high prison sentences and death penalty are strongly supported by rightists. They also advocate beating of children, claiming it is good for their psyche and proper development.

Reason 5 - Hypocrisy
Rightists openly support traditional values but in private lives they often breach them. So, they opt for strong family and traditional marriage, but they often have lovers on the side. They advocate total ban on abortion, but when their lovers get pregnant, rightists make them remove pregnancy. They often claim to be confirmed believers (PiS members and supporters are mostly Catholic) of Christian faith, but they easily forget about Christian values when they brutally abuse their opponents.

Reason 6 - Incredibly high self-esteem
That`s the funniest of all reasons because rightwingers strongly believe they are on a mission to clean the world of all rotten elements . In Polish context, I sometimes get an impression they really suppose they were sent by God to do the cleaning upon those who deserve it. They deem themselves better than not only "leftist vile scum" but also other average people, and as such they think they have the right to do all the things I mentioned above and below.

Reason 7 - Positive attitude to the Kremlin
Paradoxically, rightists conceive the Kremlin as a partner worth doing business with. They don`t mind the Kremlin`s aggressiveness and dirty tricks. I particularly mean the right wing parties in Western Europe.

Reason 8 - Vengefulness
Rightists have a tendency to never forget real or imagined wrongdoing directed at them. They never forgive and are able to wait for years for a unique chance to attack, humiliate and successfully destroy their political/ideological opponents.

Reason 9 - Suspiciousness
Rightists constantly suspect other people of potentially harmful activities. Conspiracy theories are very poipular among rightists.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,535    
3 Mar 2019  #2
Among authoritarian and radical nationalists I think you are spot on. However I consider myself a Liberalny-Narodowiec and can only agree with nr.1 for myself. As long as EU keeps being a free market enterprise I love it. But any involvement in local politics and intervention in member states is disturbing.

I find that many being on the right side of the political spectrum don't want to associate with Polish "Narodowcy" even tho they might be politically closest simply cause of propaganda.

I had a very negative view on any form of nationalism until I read about it. Especially about Narodowcy from II RP
Dirk diggler 8 | 4,064    :-(
3 Mar 2019  #3
such as e.g., gay marriages or Muslim immigrant issue. However, most Poles support the EU, seeing many benefits in the membership.

Perhaps. Nonetheless majority of poles are against pedaly and turd world migration.

Whereas men's status and desirability tends to grow with age especially, women's declines. A beautiful 20 year old even if she's semi literate will have a far better chance of marrying a rich dude who will give her anything than an average looking 35 40 year old.

Rightists don`t like diversity, they perceive it as suspicious and even dangerous,

We just don't want to live around them. This is our country. We're not going to allow ourselves to be demographically replaced in our cities like the cucked Brits and Germans. Thanks to our 'intolerance' Poland has had a single Islamic terror attacks. Zero. Zip. Nada. And no issues with Paki rape squads, no go zones, cars driving into crowds, etc.

Also, we've been backstabbed by the Jews calling themselves polish Jews for decades and even are to this day. If kazimierz wielki knew the problems Jews would cause to Poland and continue to cause he would've never let them in. It's not like Poland was their first choice anyway, they overstayed their welcome literally in every other European country and we're kicked out and had no where to go.
Dirk diggler 8 | 4,064    :-(
  3 Mar 2019  #4
Yes and leftists arent hypocrites at all. Atleast unlike leftists were open about our values and can own up to our mistakes.

Patriots are what saved Poland every single time. If there's ever a war you'll be begging for aggressive violent patriots to help you.

Paradoxically, rightists conceive the Kremlin as a partner worth doing business with.

Most poles certainly do not. You clearly aren't a Pole otherwise you wouldn't say such nonsense and know that poles are suspicious of Russian government. Nonetheless, many polish nationalist groups, biker clubs including 1%ers, mma clubs, etc are on friendly terns with their Russian counterparts. Polish nationalists even stood up to the government when they refused the nightwolves access to ride to a WW2 memorial

They never forgive and are able to wait for years for a unique chance to attack, humiliate and successfully destroy their political/ideological opponents.

Again, so do leftists. That's part of politics.

Rightists constantly suspect other people of potentially harmful activities.

Rather they simply don't take people for their word especially politicians and the eu. When the liberals in EU says they're not encouraging turd world migration they're obviously lying.

You clearly know very little about how poles view right wingers. PiS is by far the most popular party in Poland. Plus even PO would be considered conservative even socially conservative by North American and w European standards. 75% of poles do not want third world migration to Poland. Hell half don't even want ukrainians. The majority is also against gay marraige. Poles simply don't want the same degenerate anti family anti Christian anti white policies in their own country that Germany, UK, Sweden etc have adopted. Also where was and continues to be the largest patriotic, right wing march in Europe? Poland

Poland likes the EU for money and access. But it does not like it for the faggotry and turd world migration it promotes or the political interference in domestic affairs.
Shitonya Brits    
4 Mar 2019  #5
What do decent Poles think about true rightists ?

This title and the entire first post is amazing!

It is a text book example of many propaganda techniques being used. From name calling, to glittering generalities, to transference, to personal testimonies, to pretending to be "plain folk", to bandwagoning and even card stacking.

It's all there.

Have some fun yourselves and compare these definitions to the OP's propaganda:

classroom.synonym.com/what-are-the-seven-techniques-of-propaganda-12080912.html
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  4 Mar 2019  #6
This title and the entire first post is amazing!

I am really happy you liked it. :) Enjoy it for a while and I will be back soon.
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
4 Mar 2019  #7
By rightists I mean both standard and radical, primarily from Poland (e.g., PiS, nationalists, far right etc) but also abroad.

right and left dont' have so much meaning at present, the big emerging political split is between what might be referred to as

globalism : despite the name, globalist tendencies inexorably lead to extreme hierarchy and extreme social stratification and alienation of the majority from governments (which give up most of their traditional functions in favor or serving the needs of the capital class)

nationalism : despite modern propaganda about nationalism being exclusionary and terrible some type of nationalism is the only system that makes things like universal education and healthcare and democracy possible and it's notable that in the places where globalist policies have advanced the farthest things like education and other state services are being pared back....

Within each of these you get both right and left wing trends.

globalist right : Ted Cruz, Teresa May

globalist left : Corbyn, Hillary Clinton

nationalist right : Trump, Bolsinaro, Salvini

nationalist left : Bernie Sanders, podemos

At present these trends are barely being felt in Poland (which operates on a separate time schedule from most other countries)

But I consider PiS to be more globalist right than nationalist - despite their empty rhetoric they are handing out work visas like candy in Asia operating on the (almost always wrong) assumption that once the visa recipients aren't needed they'll just move on...
Shitonya Brits    
4 Mar 2019  #8
Enjoy it for a while and I will be back soon.

Great, because there is so much more on the way!

Reason 1 - Negative attitude to the EU

Rightfully so.

The EU suffers from a "democratic deficit" (go look it up) and the American government recently reduced its diplomatic standing from nation state to international organisation status because of this.

But if you want a more unvarnished take, there is a must-watch presentation titled "The EU - the new Soviet?" given by writer, lecturer, human rights activist, and former dissident Vladimir Bukovsky outlining the startling similarities the EU has with the former Soviet Union.

Right down to calling the EU out for its "intellectual GULAG known as political correctness": youtube.com/watch?v=m41Tdl5mvdg

It really is clear that any fondness in Poland for the EU has two different reasons which are generational.

- For young Poles, it is their naiveté.

- For old Poles (like the OP) it is a Pavlovian conditioning shaped way back in the PRL-era in those families who actually did very well for themselves under Soviet rule and yearn for a return of the good old days!

most Poles support the EU, seeing many benefits in the membership.

Welfare queens always love big Government and find comfort in the dependency on Government handouts no matter how meager.

For them, their eternal dream of becoming fully European instead of merely Eastern European nation is gradually taking real shape.

Wait! What?!

You are the very same poster who in another thread was banging on about a "Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War" and your nationalist belief that Lithuania must do more to accommodate the linguistic and cultural needs of the social construct known as "Lithuanian Poles".

Explain your doublethink!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,658    
  4 Mar 2019  #9
right and left dont' have so much meaning at present, the big emerging political split is between what might be referred to as

Most interesting...I would agree with these observations.

But I would call the "globalist left" the good 'ol "Internationalist" left, they didn't change at all....:)

And the "globalist right" is still the old "capitalist"...for them globalism is a god send to maximize their profits.

And thats the reason they will prevail longterm, IMHO. Globalist led countries will be able to offer much more goods and possibilities to the masses, whereas the nationalists concentrate on welfare and social securities. Most people will prefer the globalist/capitalist societies to the socialist/national ones.

As it always has been...

It comes all down to the age old conflict...only the names are more modern today.
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
4 Mar 2019  #10
I would call the "globalist left" the good 'ol "Internationalist" left, they didn't change at all....:)

Actually they have, I don't know so much about Corbyn, but in the US the globalist left is fanatically pro-capital (and even the socialist government in Spain shut up about undoing austerity the moment they took office).The globalist left is all about making it easy for capital to move around and not at all about anything like social solidarity (identity politics pushed by them is the opposite of solidarity....)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,658    
  4 Mar 2019  #11
but in the US the globalist left is fanatically pro-capital

You sure? Aren't they for healthcare for all, higher wages, higher taxes for the rich, free education, free higher welfare, pro-refugees/less strict borders etc.?

Another good categorization would be:

Strong state vs. Less state

Most opinions and programs fall into one of those two categories...
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
4 Mar 2019  #12
You sure? Aren't they for healthcare for all

Not a good bellweather issue in the US (since medical care is rationed by private insurance companies).

the globalist left is for open borders for two reasons:
1 employers like having vast numbers of interchangeable and disposable workers without much in the way of rights
2 the more people of different cultural backgrounds the harder it is for anyone to organize against the state

they're only pro-refugee as it supports 2

the rich don't mind higher taxes (the same way large corporations don't mind most regulations - they help keep newcomers from entering the market)
Lyzko 19 | 5,753    
4 Mar 2019  #13
Define if you would "decent" Poles. I'm almost certain the average Pole believes himself to be quite decent.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,658    
  4 Mar 2019  #14
the globalist left is for open borders for two reasons:

That is THE reason why the "globalist right" aka the old capitalists are pro-immigration...they need and want the cheap, unorganized labor...less rights, less wages, easy to hire and to fire = more profit!

(Not to mention raising the pressure on the homegrown, unionized, self-assured laborers who have to compete now with the much easier and cheaper rivals for jobs and homes)

Isn't that against the goals of the leftists, who wants them organized, who wants minimal wages, higher wages, more welfare and support for the unemployed?
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
4 Mar 2019  #15
Isn't that against the goals of the leftists, who wants them organized, who wants minimal wages?

That's a contradiction in the left, part of them wants globalism and the liquidation of nation states but without the nation state there's no welfare or wage guarantees etc.

The leftists that really want minimum wages, welfare etc have traditionally been for limiting immigration (because they realize that economic realities don't allow welfare and lax immigration)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,658    
  4 Mar 2019  #16
Agreed!

My guess is the common left will split on this in time. Into a truly internationalist left and a nationalist left...they will become enemies. Which in consequence will strenghten the globalist right, IMHO.
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
4 Mar 2019  #17
Not if the nationalist left and right can learn to work together (as the globalist right and left do now...)
gumishu 11 | 4,902    
  4 Mar 2019  #18
(the same way large corporations don't mind most regulations - they help keep newcomers from entering the market)

you have nailed it and pinpointed it - the current political elites impose regulations that restrict competition and also don't regulate the necessary regulation which leads to financial crises - for the financial elites it's a win-win situation
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
4 Mar 2019  #19
the current political elites impose regulations that restrict competition

Most people don't actually want free competition. The idea frightens them, because they'd have to survive without state intervention.
Sylvio 12 | 86    
6 Mar 2019  #20
The whole argument left- or right is passe. Socialism and capitalism are just two different business models, operated by the same money lords, and chosen to match average IQ and cultural development.
Dirk diggler 8 | 4,064    :-(
7 Mar 2019  #21
You got that right. The jews control both parties. It's a smart strategy. Man, when Trump talked about pulling out of Syria the US jewry went into OY VEY mode and for a few days there was bipartisanship like never encountered before or since. And what happened? He relented. Same thing when Trump said that he wanted to puill billions from Israel since they're rich and can obviously support them. He never mentioned it again - it wasn't even brought up.

Nothing unites the leftists and right wingers quite like shilling for the jews - especially if it's fighting a war for Israel.

Now look at what's happening to one of the bravest ninjas in the USA - Ilan Omar. The ninja merely said that AIPAC exists and it influences US politics. And they call her an anti-Semite for that rofl. I mean literally in their eyes just mentioning that AIPAC exists, it is powerful, and it lobbies on behalf of Israel. It literally stands for American Israel Public Affairs Committee. But of course simply stating what they do - you can read it verbatim from their website - will get you called anti-Semite.

Poor ninja... I feel for her...
Lyzko 19 | 5,753    
7 Mar 2019  #22
Back to the old stereotypes, are we?

During the '80's, an at that time well-known talk show host got suspended for a while for having made a snide reference (using fake but ethnic-sounding caricatured names) to suggest that Hollywood power brokers were exclusively Jewish or at worst, "controlled" by Jewish money etc.

Well, the NYT (bless their hearts) nailed that guy on the following factoid; THE No.1 power broker in Hollywood until his death, was Mr. Jack Valenti, a non-Jewish, teatoling Born Again Christian convert from Catholicism who never took a dime from anyone, being mega-rich in his own right!!
Dirk diggler 8 | 4,064    :-(
7 Mar 2019  #23
Back to the old stereotypes, are we?

If groups don't like being stereotyped they ought to change their behavior instead of reinforcing observations people make about them. Poles don't have the stereotype for being terrorists or rapists. Why? Because unlike darker skinned people they don't consistently engage in such behavior.

suggest that Hollywood power brokers were exclusively Jewish or at worst, "controlled" by Jewish money etc.

It most definitely is. 4/5 top media companies are owned by Jews. And the 1/5 is Rupert Murdoch who's as much of a Zionist as the actual Jews.

La times wrote an article titled "is Hollywood run by Jews? You bet" title is self explanatory...
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  7 Mar 2019  #24
Guys, thank you for your valuable and informative replies.

I would like to talk to each of you but it might take some time because I already got a second warning for excessive quoting. I promised to behave and want to keep my word, so be patient.

Define if you would "decent" Poles. I'm almost certain the average Pole believes himself to be quite decent.

Isn`t it obvious? A decent Pole is the one who is able to reflect on the starry night above while having a moral law within.

We just don't want to live around them. This is our country.

Do you suggest it isn`t theirs because they are gay? How about gays saying the same about you?

You also said that majority of Poles are against gays. That is not so obvious, I thought we already settled that matter in "Gay marriages" thread.

BTW, I don`t understand why you are so interested in what other people do in their beds or wherever? Isn`t it their business after all? Have you ever been wronged by a gay person that you are so bitter today?

You also said that we've been backstabbed by the Jews calling themselves polish Jews for decades and even are to this day. Actually, there were great Polish Jews who contributed to the development of Poland in an oustanding way. We will talk about it in another thread soon.

You also said that many polish nationalist groups, biker clubs including 1%ers, mma clubs, etc are on friendly terns with their Russian counterparts (who directly support Putin and company). Yes, exactly, that was what I meant by rightists` close ties with the Kremlin.

One thing amazes my in your posts. Why do you constantly mention leftist, as if there wasn`t anything else apart from leftist and rightist?
Lyzko 19 | 5,753    
7 Mar 2019  #25
Well then, Pawian, what you describe is simply being a decent person:-)

@Dirk,
Only a bigot wouldn't admit to a flaw in their thinking!
From Will Hays whose repressive code loomed over Hollywood as no other before or since to financier/newspaper mogul Hearst himself, Zanuck up through Valenti, most of the real power brokers were W.A.S.P., often old-money W.A.S.P at that, with one or two exceptions who were Roman Catholic.

In the scheme of things, the Jews were smaller potatoes than one might have imagined! Lew Wassermann, Harvey Weinstein??! Please, don't make me chuckleLOL
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  7 Mar 2019  #26
Yes and leftists arent hypocrites at all.

Yes, but it is rightists who openly claim and believe they are better than other people.

You also said PiS is by far the most popular party in Poland and even PO would be considered conservative even sociall. Yes, but 35% max for PiS isn`t so exciting when we know they will be outvoted by united pro European opposition. As for PO, they have always been able to encompass both right, centre and left politicians which was one of the reasons of their popularity and gave them two consecutive parliament terms.

At present these trends are barely being felt in Poland (which operates on a separate time schedule from most other countries)

Yes, that is why I didn`t put it in such nice categories as you, just regular rightists and radical ones.

However I consider myself a Liberalny-Narodowiec

That is nice, I never heard of it before. :) But when you said only point 1 applies to you, then you can`t be a true rightist. :) You are too decent to be one. :)
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
8 Mar 2019  #27
I am afraid decent Poles` opinion about right wingers isn`t too positive

Define decent. By the way most of parties and political movement present themselves top voters as a right wing due to the fact that Soviet Poland made communism, socialism and all movements associated with the left is an anathema to an average /Polish person. Only commie nomenklatura and their base were voting for such a party. Any movement that present itself as a left-wing is a fringe mo0vment when to comes to a popular support. Even thought those kind of movements are heavily supported financially...

So you are wrong on all counts. Alternatively you have formed your question poorly.

I'm not saying that there is no parties that are in fact on the left. Yet they do not present themselves as such.
Lyzko 19 | 5,753    
8 Mar 2019  #28
Decency has become such a porous term these days:-)
cms neuf - | 687    
8 Mar 2019  #29
Who is more leftist than PiS ?

Handouts for kids and pensioners, anti business with taxes on banks and retailers to pay for that, in hock to the trade unions and keen on nationalization.
Lyzko 19 | 5,753    
8 Mar 2019  #30
Joke.

How did the Prime Minister react to the demonstrations?

He was really PiSsed off!
:-)


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