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Polish culture versus rotten West


rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
18 Feb 2016 #121
" I don't think it was about his ego, I believe he was genuine."

Geldof's ego is massive. However I do agree that he was probably quite genuine in his desire to 'raise pennies for the little black babies' (lol). Just he was startlingly naïve.

Quite a balanced article about the Live Aid money, even if it is 10 years old.

theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/24/g8.debtrelief

Could I just add for the sake of it, the Boomtown Rats were a godawful band, unbelievably bad and talentless.
You can see this clearly when watching old re-runs of Top of the Pops (a lovely show invented by ...mm...interesting people).
How on earth were they successful?
Just saying.
Atch 17 | 4,087
18 Feb 2016 #122
How on earth were they successful?
Just saying.

Yes they were awful but it's the social history of the time. Remember what Ireland was like in the seventies? The Show Bands, the Country and Western, Big Tom and the Mainliners, Brendan Shine - aaaargh! Ok we had Rory Gallagher who was outstanding but apart from Thin Lizzy we didn't have any bands. Also the Boomtown Rats were not only 'modern' and slightly punky but they were young so the kids felt this was 'their' band. And Bob had great energy and a kind of charisma. He was incredibly mouthy at a time when young Irish people didn't talk back to Mammy and Daddy. He said all the things they wanted to but didn't dare. You could bring affable, always smiling Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy) home to meet your Granny but not Angry Bob! The Boomtown Rats were a novelty and they filled a niche.

Then of course the UK picked up on them, I suppose the record companies needed more 'new wave' bands. Loads of dross gets signed up that way. So once the publicity machine is behind you, you're sorted. I remember the first time I saw the Spice Girls........I was speechless. They were a total embarrassment but there you go Roz, that's the world of show business!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
18 Feb 2016 #123
apart from Thin Lizzy we didn't have any bands

ahhh Tin Lizzy - pure genius!

I remember the first time I saw the Spice Girls........I was speechless. They were a total embarrassment but there you go Roz, that's the world of show business!

ha ha ha, yes another godawful band! I "think" I may have seen them live at Gay Pride circa 1997 - on the other hand I may not have - much of the 90s was like that...:)

I wonder which Polish bands make people go "ahhhh yes - fantastic times". what about Dzem?
Atch 17 | 4,087
18 Feb 2016 #124
Dzem - yes Mr Atch loves them. I think they're very derivative and seem to switch styles all the time, one track sounds reggae influence, another is real stadium rock, but I admire them because it must have been so difficult to do what they did in the Poland of those days.
TheOther 6 | 3,692
18 Feb 2016 #125
but apart from Thin Lizzy we didn't have any bands

What about The Dubliners or U2? And if you count Northern Ireland, you also had Stiff Little Fingers.
Atch 17 | 4,087
18 Feb 2016 #126
The 1970s Othery One. U2 didn't come along until the 1980s. As for the Dubliners they were old fellas singing the street songs of Dublin and the classic ballads which was fine but your granny would be singing along in the corner. It wasn't rock 'n' roll.

Back to the topic please
TheOther 6 | 3,692
18 Feb 2016 #127
The 1970s Othery One. U2 didn't come along until the 1980s.

The Dubliners (as well as the Chieftains) were really popular all across Europe in the late 1970's, if I recall correctly, and U2 had their first Irish hit in 1979. I know, I know - I'm nitpicking... :)

Sorry, mod, you posted while I was writing.
Atch 17 | 4,087
18 Feb 2016 #128
I'll reply in Off Topic.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Feb 2016 #129
"all-pervasive"

That means it pervades nearly every field of endeavour and there's no getting away from it. The lowest common denominator is apparent in lifestyles, on the air, on TV, on the net and, on billboards at the cinema and supermarket. Even schools often follow a commerpop-based "fun & games" format and churches use "clown liturgies" to convey their message. Maybe the only respite is in the middle of a forest and even there you'll probably soon see some plugged-in jogger getting his brain rattled by rap crap.
Atch 17 | 4,087
18 Feb 2016 #130
churches use "clown liturgies" to convey their message.

You are talking about America again Pol.

schools often follow a commerpop-based "fun & games" format

That's because learning through play is an important aspect of child development. When led by a properly trained teacher who knows what they are doing and balanced with other kinds of learning, it's an excellent way for children to learn.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
18 Feb 2016 #131
That's because learning through play is an important aspect of child development.

Modern research shows this pretty well - unstructured play time is finally being recognised as having a lot of benefit.

Oh, the arguments I've had over this...
Lenka 3 | 2,764
18 Feb 2016 #132
I saw quite many parents (even have one sad example in my family) that don't really talk to their kids. And I don't mean everyday chatter but proper conversations that shows what both parents and kids views are on certain things, about their dreams and their failures.

Also how often now parents and the kids sit together and talk about news, books e.t.c. ? How many parents really listen to the music their kids listen to and ask the kids what they like in it?

My sister in law had quite a few hip hop songs on her playlist after kids got interested in it. She wanted to know what her kids like and it turned out that few of them are actually nice and have merit.
dolnoslask
18 Feb 2016 #133
" unstructured play time is finally being recognised as having a lot of benefit." got to agree there delph, as kids we used to spend loads of time outside, down the adventure play park climbing to dangerous heights with only solid ground to fall on , taught me allot about finding my place amongst my peers, also the consequences of risk taking.

it was the same as school time the dinner ladies used to leave us to it unless someone needed to go to the nurse or hospital.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
18 Feb 2016 #134
And I don't mean everyday chatter but proper conversations that shows what both parents and kids views are on certain things, about their dreams and their failures.

Oh, absolutely. Many parents don't even talk about it with each other! It's surreal - how can these families exist if they don't even know each other?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #135
don't even talk about it

You're quite right, in fact overall family communication and interaction is all but dead in many places. TV was once a family affair, everybody gathered to watch Dr Kildare, the Untouchables or whatever. Now many a family member has their own TV set and targeted programming often drives a wedge between the generations. Many families no longer sit down to daily family dinner, once a greta togetherness-promoter. Also laughable is kids sitting in a school canteen at the same table texting one another or coming home from school, scarfing down junk snacks and staying glued to computer games instead of playing outdoors and getting fresh air and exercise. Some troglodyte will reply "but I enjoy computer games" and there's no discussing with such a one. OK, someone likes computer games and someone else is making loads of money on them, but everything has its downsides. Does computer-game addiciton not affect the young psyche? Is child obesity a goal to aim for? A nice Polish saying goes: Najpierw pomyśl, to nic nie kosztuje!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
19 Feb 2016 #136
" staying glued to computer games instead of playing outdoors and getting fresh air and exercise."

that is all very well, Pollie, but I can assure you that if I had let my children 'play outdoors' I would have had child services hammering at the door. That is how it is in the UK these days, which only follows the USA.

No point in harking back to some non existent golden age anyway.
OP Ktos 16 | 440
19 Feb 2016 #137
It's surreal - how can these families exist if they don't even know each other?

As I mentioned, in USA not in Poland, we are referring to Polish society on this forum or American now?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #138
child services hammering at the door

I don't understand. Do UK-ers live in a police sttae where kids aren't allowed to play outdoors any more?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
19 Feb 2016 #139
Do UK-ers live in a police sttae where kids aren't allowed to play outdoors any more?

pretty much yes. I mean it is OK to take your children to a playpark and closely supervise them of course.
Certainly children cannot play outdoors in the same way that we did as kids.
The neighbours could well call child services even if they were in the playpark alone, even more likely if they were 'on the street'.
Although of course it does vary by area.
OP Ktos 16 | 440
19 Feb 2016 #140
I saw quite many parents (even have one sad example in my family) that don't really talk to their kids.

In my previous profession I encountered many families and what you referred to above is a reflection of a typical behaviour of Anglo family - reserved and embarrassed especially in regards to sexual matters, Polish families, although some may display similar inclinations as the former, are mostly quite open about a vast number of topics including those of sexual nature, so Lenka do not generalise.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #141
vary by area

I presume in semi-rural or small-town areas kids still explore and romp through the woods and things. A house-bound childhood seems like hell on earth.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
19 Feb 2016 #142
I presume in semi-rural or small-town areas kids still explore and romp through the woods and thin

yes, exactly.
When we lived on the south coast, the fear of child services was hellish.
Once I had them called as my children were seen two-up on a scooter leaving the school without me..:) (they were ten or eleven at the time). when I say 'scooter' I don't mean a moped!

Is it like that in different areas of Poland I wonder?
OP Ktos 16 | 440
19 Feb 2016 #143
I know exactly what you mean, the usual DoCS assume they do the right thing but what is lacking is proper segregation of issues from life threatening, to abuse to neglect to less serious ones to ones not needing any intervention. Child agencies are driven by strict rule of law, their program does not, in most case, encompass correct framework for investigating cases and so families end up being prosecuted, children are taken away, parents are punished without any insight into the actual situation.
Atch 17 | 4,087
19 Feb 2016 #144
In my previous profession

Well now we are all intrigued. This is the first time you've intimated that you're older than twelve. Except of course for the time when you talked about the days of Communist Poland and informed us- I quote verbatim - 'I loved it then', giving the somewhat erroneous impression that you had lived in those times. Although to be fair, maybe on that day you thought you had........

I encountered many families and what you referred to above is a reflection of a typical behaviour of Anglo family

So in your profession you encountered many English families? How was that when you live in Australia?
OP Ktos 16 | 440
19 Feb 2016 #145
Well now we are all intrigued.

Women are not all so beetchy so straighten up and stop giving western female population a bad name of being cat-like.
edited
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #146
different areas of Poland

I presume it's the same in Poland that there is less official monotopriong in small towns and rural areas, but I don't think it's as bad as what you describe anywhere. Even in Warsaw one sees kids on bicycles and skateboards on the streets or kicking a ball round a school pitch and nobody interferes. What was troubling is tha under the former "liberal" government in a number of cases parents had their kids placed in orphanages or foster care because of the their poverty. The parents were not drunks, addicts or violent types, only poor. That did not go over well in Poland where people don't take kindly to outside interference in family affairs. Public opinion sided with the parents who went on TV to plead their case and said they're doing the best they can. The kids also did not want to be separated. Police-state-style political "correctness" gone astray?
Atch 17 | 4,087
19 Feb 2016 #147
western female population

Lumping us all in together again. In this case it's Mná na hÉireann - Women of Ireland. Respect national boundaries please.
edited - please stick to the topic, everyone
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #148
Ireland

Hope this isn't off-topic. but I don't want to start a new thread for two simple questions: is the punt still used in Eire or is it now €?

Secondly, to what do you attribute the intenstiy of the priest-paedophile and abuse of girls by nuns scandals? Those things happen everywhere but nothing that widespread has ever occurred in Poland?

It's good you're proud of your country. The globalists are only proud of their bank accounts.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Feb 2016 #149
Those things happen everywhere but nothing that widespread has ever occurred in Poland?

I think the simple reason nothing like this has happened in Poland is because it wasn't allowed to happen. The worst of the abuses took place between the 1930's and early 1990's - so really, it would only have been a few years at most, but the culture had no time to take hold here. After WW2, the Communists would have had a field day with child abusing priests (and it would've been used as a pretext to eliminate the Church further) - so they wouldn't have had the chance. By the time the chance came for child abuse to take place, society had moved on and wasn't willing to turn a blind eye to any widespread systematic abuse.

The only thing I wonder is whether or not abuse took place in the 1930's - but most potential victims are long gone, especially as church-run schools (such as those run by the Jesuits) would have been among the better in society back then.

The mystery to me is why the Church finds it so difficult to deal with. Surely anyone suspected of child abuse should simply be immediately prohibited from having any contact with children until proven innocent?
Atch 17 | 4,087
19 Feb 2016 #150
is the punt still used in Eire or is it now €?

It's been the euro since around 2002 if I remember correctly.

Those things happen everywhere but nothing that widespread has ever occurred in Poland?

Couldn't answer that off the top of my head Polly but it could be that it's yet to come out in Poland. You know in Ireland it didn't really begin to surface until 70 years after independence. Might be the same in the Poland?

It's good you're proud of your country.

I love Ireland. God Bless Ireland. God Bless Poland. God Bless the US of A. God Bless us all everyone here on the forum and beyond. Try to have a happy weekend everybody. I'll keep you all in my prayers.

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