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Why are Polish so conservative and religious?


jon357 63 | 14,076
10 May 2015  #121
So were the North Africans that went on a rampage in French cities a few years ago rampaging for Islam or for their ethnic difference?

Pretty well the same things that people have rioted about for centuries including in Poland over the ages. If anything it happens less than before. So, if you really do cherish tradition rather than just control, you should approve of it.
Marsupial - | 888
10 May 2015  #122
Wow mr mike had it really wrong.
Levi 12 | 450
10 May 2015  #124
"Poland is conservative and religious because it is the right thing to be to stay strong. "

Exactly!!!

Anyone knows how the Armenians resisted for thousa ds of years even being constantly under attack of the Ottomans and, Azeris, Turkish and other muslims?

Anyone knows how the Israelis survived for a entire century being attack by virtually ALL arab countries 3 TIMES?

Anyone knows how the Polish Culture survived until today even with Poland being invaded more than 40 times in the last 500 years?

The reason is simple: All those countries have a common religion that bond the society together. Destroy that and you will destroy the country and make another failed society just like Marseille or Birmingham.
msn
20 May 2015  #125
Polish people (just like everywhere else) have double-standards. But it looks like it's getting worse. I am an observer, since i live abroad (no, not in UK) and what startled me lately was that the Polish Universities have a strong catholic agenda. The essays, the papers... everything I read seems old-fashioned and what's worse it is the dominant discourse. Every time some1 mentions minorities, the people shout about the rights of the "poor" majority, some1 starts debate about abortion, people scream about the rights of the embryo, not even giving a thought to sustainability or possibly fatal consequences for the child living in poverty and with no options for a dignifying future. We, Polish people enjoy to be right and righteous. The problem occurs when those two don't go hand in hand... But there are also many, who do not subscribe to that point of view. Those people travel often, know other cultures thus do not feel intimidated by that anymore. The Polish society today is very polarized - I'd suggest you talk to the people, who are talked badly about behind their backs by your current colleges. It might actually be that you will find your peers there. But remember it can very well work both ways - joining one faction might exclude u permanently from the other. Being friends with other immigrants could help too as they can easier understand what you coming through. I wish you luck overcoming your culture-shock ;) (and do not go to Texas to study - sounds like it would be a challenge, considering your personal preferences)
Levi_BR 6 | 220
20 May 2015  #126
" But it looks like it's getting worse'

Worse from your point of view. Better from my point of view (and by many Poles)

"what startled me lately was that the Polish Universities have a strong catholic agenda."

So What? Religious freedom applies for both sides. You are free to be an atheist or a muslim, so don't try to censorship my faith just because i am catholic.

" everything I read seems old-fashioned"

I come from a country (Brazil) that long ago lost it morality and now is drowned into corruption and perversion in a Caligula style orgy (even some people still resisting with their values, specially in the south).

For me, those " western modern values" like Polyssexualism, Anti-catholicism or Political Correctness extremism are the old-fashioned stuff.

So as i said, everything depends of your perspective.
Harry
20 May 2015  #127
But it looks like it's getting worse.

Not at all: the number of Poles who go to church has been falling steadily since the fall of communism. At last count (i.e. October 2013) only 39.1 of the 82% of Poles the RCC thinks should be in church on a Sunday (i.e. everybody except those too young, too old or too sick to attend mass), i.e. fewer than a third of Poles, were in church on that particular Sunday. Back in 1982, 57.0% were in church on the given Sunday when the count was taken.
Vox - | 175
20 May 2015  #128
Poland is conservative and religious because it is the right thing to be to stay strong. "Exactly!!!

Poland recognize religious values as an important part of the Polish cultural heritage. Poland might seem conservative to those who compare it with radical anti-religious culture of the western Europe.

However, current government in Poland seems to fall in line with the rest of Europe in passing bills to support anti-religious propaganda and privileges for homosexuals.

The number of churchgoers in Poland has nothing to do with the issue debated. Some people have those silly notions that they can provide all the answers by quoting statistic.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
20 May 2015  #129
So what does that prove? Poland is thankfully still Europe's most Catholic nation. Whether anyone likes it or not, Catholicity permeates the culture, language, symbolism, family life, lifestyles and most every other aspect of life in Poland.
Harry
20 May 2015  #130
Poland is thankfully still Europe's most Catholic nation.

No it isn't, it's not even close! In Poland only 39.1% of the 82% the RCC thinks should be at church every Sunday are there on a given Sunday. In Malta 65.2% of people attend mass and 53.1% do so regularly. The rate at which Poles attend Sunday mass is slightly lower than the rate at which Catholics in your country attend Sunday mass.
Dougpol1 28 | 2,658
20 May 2015  #131
Whether anyone likes it or not, Catholicity permeates the culture, language, symbolism, family life, lifestyles and most every other aspect of life in Poland

Yes Polonious - you are right. We don't like it. Even that "pop star" is against the freedom for a woman to be Pro-choice over her own body.

In 2015 it is disgusting.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
20 May 2015  #132
A tiny island is hardly comparable to a fairly large European state -- Catholic Poland! The formerly Catholic nations of Spain and Irleand have betrayed the faith of their fathers and begun sinking into secularist-libetrtine slime.
Dougpol1 28 | 2,658
20 May 2015  #133
Sorry but you are rambling. I referred to the rights of the modern woman/family - who find they have made a genuine, though regrettable mistake. How is that the lawful right of anybody else?

Until the catholic church gets the **** out of politics I would never countenance giving thanks to God in one of those edifices that you call "church."
Harry
20 May 2015  #134
The formerly Catholic nations of Spain and Irleand have betrayed the faith of their fathers and begun sinking into secularist-libetrtine slime.

Really? Just over a third of people in Ireland attend mass at least once a week. In Poland it's slightly less than a third of people who are counted in church when the RCC carries out its annual survey (which of course priests don't at all push people to attend).

Would you like to admit you were completely wrong about Ireland (as you about Malta), or would you prefer to tell us that Poland had sunk further into into secularist-libetrtine slime than Ireland (in which case you're more than welcome to return to your own country)?
johnny reb 15 | 3,094
21 May 2015  #135
only 39.1 of the 82% of Poles the RCC thinks should be in church on a Sunday@Harry

Church attendence is not what gets you to heaven Harry.
Church "attendence" statistics only prove church attendence is down.
It doesn't mean that Catholics renounced their religion or religious beliefs.

The number of churchgoers in Poland has nothing to do with the issue debated@Vox.

I was waiting for someone to make that point as Harry has been using that statistic for a rubber crutch for to long now. It is meaningless.

I come from a country (Brazil) that long ago lost it morality and now is drowned into corruption and perversion in a Caligula style orgy@Levi-BR

I come from the United States of America and once the liberal progressive thinking minority took religion out of our school systems, (which is what America was founded on) immorality and lack of manners is now out of control.

That is why the Polish are so conservative and religious is because of their strong faith in rightousness.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
21 May 2015  #136
For lack of substantive arguments you have latched on to the Sunday mass thing and repeat it over and over like a mantra. The Irish don't even celebrate the feastdays of their patron saints the way Poles do their imieniny. And the Irish have never saved Europe from pagan or atheist hordes the way Poland did in the 13th century against the Mongols, in the 17th century against the Turks in 1920 against the Bolsheviks and in 1989 against the continuation of godless communism. Now it is a bulwark against the slime of Western deviation and libertinism.
Harry
21 May 2015  #137
Church attendence is not what gets you to heaven Harry.

No, but going every Sunday is what the RCC requires as "the very necessary minimum" from practising Catholics.

For lack of substantive argumetns you have latched on to the Sunday mass thing

It's not me who says going to Sunday mass every week is the necessary minimum: it's your church.

The Irish don't even celebrate the feastdays of their patron saints the way Poles do their imieniny.

Since when was being a Catholic all about celebrating the feasts?!

And the Irish have never saved Europe from pagan or atheist hordes the way Poland did in the 13th century against the Mongols, in the 17th century against the Turks in 1920 agaisnt the Bolsheviks and in 1989 against the continuation of godless communism.

That was then, this is now. In 1982 57% of adult Poles who could go to church on a given Sunday did. Now fewer than 33% of Poles are counted in church by the RCC; that's lower than in Malta, lower than in Ireland, lower even than for Catholics in your own country!
johnny reb 15 | 3,094
21 May 2015  #138
No, but going every Sunday is what the RCC requires

The thread is not about what the right hand of the Pope requires Harry, the thread is WHY are the Polish
so religious.
That is because of their faith in the trinity.
Maybe that is where you are getting mixed up.

It's not me who says going to Sunday mass every week is the necessary minimum: it's your church.

Again Harry, you are simply 'baiting' by going off thread.
The churches rules have nothing to do with a persons personal relationship with Christ and his faith Harry.
I pray to my God, not to my church.
TheOther 5 | 3,565
21 May 2015  #139
I pray to my God, not to my church.

Then why do you need the church?
Levi 12 | 450
21 May 2015  #140
You can also study by yourself, but some prefer to go to school to have guidance. The same logic applies and this is a matter of preference, not to be discussed.
TheOther 5 | 3,565
21 May 2015  #141
You can also study by yourself, but some prefer to go to school to have guidance.

Same school, same grade, same teacher all your life? Sounds pretty dull. Maybe that is the reason why younger Poles stay away in increasing numbers these days?
Levi_BR 6 | 220
21 May 2015  #142
Same school, same grade, same teacher all your life?

You would be really surprised to know how many homeschooled (which is exactly that) people study at Ivy League ;)

(And no Admins, this is not Off-Topic. Just use a bit of your text interpretation skills to understand this analogy).
TheOther 5 | 3,565
21 May 2015  #143
You would be really surprised to know how many homeschooled (which is exactly that) people study at Ivy League

But after graduation, the students leave the Ivy League universities and get a real job...
Levi_BR 6 | 220
21 May 2015  #144
Maybe that is the reason why younger Poles stay away in increasing numbers these days?

Just remember that the Catholic churches in England now are completely full because.. of the Poles!

That is also making a interesting effect: Huge numbers of Anglicans, including bishops, are converting to catholicism due to this new revival caused by the Polish immigrants.

aicaold.com.ar/index.php?module=displaystory&story_id=27003&format=print&edition_id=1506

PS: The link is in spanish, so enable the option of Google Chrome to translate it, it is pretty accurate translation.

Remember If you post a link to a non-English source, ALWAYS summarize / translate the relevant parts into English!

Or even in USA:

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7375163/100-US-Anglican-parishes-convert-to-Roman-Catholic-Church.html

Another thing that needed to be said: It is natural to the "country of the pope" have decreasing numbers after the same pass out. As also is common for the "country of new pope" have a increase in Catholism after he assume his position. Just see what is happening in Argentina (and actually entire hispanic latin america) right now with Pope Francis. Even a Hard line communist like Raul Castro said that maybe he will go back to the catholic church.
TheOther 5 | 3,565
21 May 2015  #145
Another thing that needed to be said: It is natural to the "country of the pope" have decreasing numbers after the same pass out. As also is common for the "country of new pope" have a increase in Catholism after he assume his position.

Maybe on a short term basis, but that doesn't explain that Europe and the USA have become increasingly secular over the past decades.
Harry
21 May 2015  #146
The thread is not about what the right hand of the Pope requires Harry, the thread is WHY are the Polish
so religious.
That is because of their faith in the trinity.

Exactly: it is about Polish people being religious, not about them having faith.
In order to be a practising Catholic, one needs to do certain things; to be a member of the Catholic church one has to meet the minimum requirements of the RCC. One of "the very necessary minimum[s] in the spirit of prayer and moral effort" is going to church every Sunday.

So Poles might have faith, but few of them are religious Catholics.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
21 May 2015  #147
The point was the extent to which Catholiciuty permeates Polish culture, collective historical memory and present-day lifestyles. When the frogs were murderdering clergy and burning chruches and turning their country in a "Be my brother or I'll kill you" blood bath, the Polish Enlihgtnement was led by priests and bishops :Krasicki, Staszic, Kołłątaj, Konarski, etc. The cross and Blessed Virgin were on the standards of all of Poland's Europe-saving victories (Legnica, Vienna, Warsaw and Soviet demise). Father Skorupka led Polish troops agaisnt the godless bolshies in 1920. Catholicity encompasses the totality of what Polishness is all about. Do the Irish write K+M+B on their door jambs? Do priests make their New Year rounds of Irish parishioners' homes? In Poland, crosses are proudly displayed in homes, schools and hospitals, businesses and public institutions, and most Polish public holidays are Catholic inspired. But there are horse-blinkered types who pretend they can't see all that and are fixated on taking a Sunday head count. So it'll come as not surprise if the riposte goes: Yes, but only 38.7% of Poles go to Sunday Mass. BTW did you know that some fulfil their weekly obligation on Saturday?
Vlad1234 13 | 516
21 May 2015  #148
When the frogs were murderdering clergy and burning chruches and turning their country in a "Be my brother or I'll kill you" blood bath

What the events are you talking about?
Harry
21 May 2015  #149
The point was the extent to which Catholiciuty permeates Polish culture, collective historical memory and present-day lifestyles.

Yes, it no longer permeates enough for even a third of Poles to be counted in church by the RCC on a given Sunday. It no longer permeates enough for the overwhelming majority of Poles to bother doing "the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort" required by the RCC.

Do the Irish write K+M+B on their door jambs? Do priests make their New Year rounds of Irish parishioners' homes?

Who knows? But what we do know is that more of them fulfil at least one of the "the very necessary minimum[s] in the spirit of prayer and moral effort" required by the RCC than Poles do. It appears that Poles prefer to make a show of being Catholic than actually being Catholic.

BTW did you know that some fulfil their weekly obligation on Saturday?

If they put other things before going to church on Sunday, clearly church is not important to them.

By the way, I would be particularly interested to hear your estimate for the number of Poles who fulfil their religious obligation to attend mass on Sunday by attending mass on Saturday. Is it tens of thousands? Is it thousands? Is it hundreds? Is it even a hundred? Is it even ten?

Note to mods: This is entirely on-topic material cut from a binned post which was binned because, one presumes, it commented in part to an off-topic post. However, the above material is entirely on topic and I'd like to discuss it.
Levi_BR 6 | 220
21 May 2015  #150
By the way, I would be particularly interested to hear your estimate for the number of Poles who fulfil their religious obligation to attend mass on Sunday by attending mass on Saturday.

The fact that a person doesn't attend the church EVERY sunday doesn' mean he/she is not catholic anymore.

I don't attend mass on sundays (obviously) except when i am at Poland or Brazil and i still consider myself a practicing catholic.

"Yes, it no longer permeates enough for even a third of Poles to be counted in church by the RCC on a given Sunday. "

You have the wrong, extremelly wrong, that if the person doesn't go to the church on sundays he is atheist like the british.

No. No and No. Me, Most of my friends and poles that i know don't go to church EVERY sunday for a series of reasons. But all of us consider ourselves catholics.

Just look how crowded are the masses during easter or christimas. If people become atheist by not going EVERY sunday like you said, what they are doing at churces on Easter or Christimas?


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