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Which Poland's visa I can apply - national visa D or Schengen visa?


Mehdi Ahmadi 1 | 6
8 Sep 2017  #1
Hello to all friends in this forums
I am an Afghanistan citizen married with polish citizen living and working in Norway for 5 years
We married in Afghanistan last year 2016 and we meet each other 4 times during this time in Afghanistan, srilanka,Maldives and india
Our marriage is registered in Afghanistan approved with foreign ministry also we register our marriage through polish embassy in New Delhi in Poland
Now i want to visit my wife and family in Poland in new year 2017 so i want to apply for visa now i don't know how much chance i have?

Before we register our marriage in Poland i applied for schengen visa with Norwegian embassy in Islamabad Pakistan but rejected first time they said they got alert that I am a security treat but when we appeal they said that we don't register our marriage in Poland and they don't trust if i leave the schengen country after visa expire although we said that i will apply for permission to stay in Norway after i got there

Also about me i am a local journalist running one new web site in my district and also small business with repairing phones and laptops

Now i don't know which way is better to take can anyone advise me
Best regards
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #2
Are you currently in Norway? if so, what is your status there? Do you have permanent residency?

If you are not in Norway, where are you? And what is your status there?
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #3
@Mehdi Ahmadi

Ok. I think I understand that you are now back in Afghanistan.

First of all, if you are listed in any international law enforcement database as a security risk, there is nothing you can do. You are effectively banned from traveling to any European country, including Poland and Norway, for life. Once your name is in those databases, it stays there forever. Whenever you apply for a visa to any country, they will check and see if you are listed, and deny your visa if you are.

Second, the default position of any first-world country that you apply to is that your marriage is a sham marriage. The burden is on you to prove that it is a genuine marriage. If you are saying that you met your wife only four times in the past five years, then that is going to be difficult to do. Having the marriage registered at the Polish embassy is not sufficient proof.

Third, the default position of any first-world country that you apply to is that you will violate the terms of your visa and not leave when your visa expires. The burden is on you to prove that this is not the case. That is going to be very hard to do because you have no credible reason to return to Afghanistan. Your statement that you will leave for Norway is also not credible, as it is not certain that Norway would accept you. It is practically impossible that they will if they have previously turned down your previous application for being a security threat.

The fact that you are a local journalist and have a small phone and computer business falls far short of demonstrating that you have strong ties to your own country. The burden is on you that you have strong ties to your country.

When you appeal a decision, you are basically saying that the decision was not in accordance with the law. It's not a "second chance". The burden is on you to prove that the decision contradicts the law.

Last of all, when you apply for a visa to any Schengen country, they can check whether you had previously applied for a visa to that country and to any other country. All visa-related decisions are required to be entered into the VIS database, and they stay there forever. If you are denied a visa to Norway, and then later apply for one to Poland, the Polish consul will see that your visa to Norway has been denied, and why it was denied. They will see that your visa application was turned down for being a security risk, and it is highly unlikely that they will grant you a visa. In fact, the chances are zero.

When you apply for a visa, the consul has to have good reasons to grant you that visa, and the burden is solely on you to supply those reasons. They do not have to have good reasons to deny you a visa, and you are not "innocent until proven guilty". You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. If you cannot understand that concept and stick to it, then applying for a visa or making further appeals is a huge waste of time and money.

In short, things do not look good for you at all. Applying for a visa to Poland, or any other Schengen country, would be like flushing money down the toilet.
G (undercover)
8 Sep 2017  #4
a security risk

He's a security risk by default.
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #5
@G (undercover)

I agree. The burden would be on him to prove that he is not, whether he is listed in some database or not. But it appears that he is listed. In any case, the fact that he was denied a visa to Norway for being a security risk is certainly in the VIS database, and that information will be seen by the consul of any Schengen country to which he applies.
OP Mehdi Ahmadi 1 | 6
8 Sep 2017  #6
first of all thanks for your replies

1.when i applied for schengen visa it was only marriage certificate from Afghanistan
2.and they denied visa because of security risk i am sure it was not any alert maybe some name mistake because i dont have any criminal record in my country or i never been in schengen countries

3.as i married with polish citizen so i have right to join her and apply for permit to stay in country she lives
now i am living in Afghanistan and i want to join my wife because she dosnt want to come and live here
now i have a question what if i apply for permit to stay or join family as EU citizen through embassy?? and forget about national and schengen visa?
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #7
Poland can deny your application if they conclude that you are a security threat, even if you are genuinely married to an EU citizen. And they probably will on the basis of the refusal of your application for a visa to Norway.

They can also conclude that your marriage is not a genuine marriage, even if it was properly registered at the Polish embassy in Delhi. Remember that the burden is on you to prove that your marriage is genuine, and based on what you wrote in your original post, that is going to be very difficult to do.

Getting married to an EU citizen does not make you an EU citizen. Wherever did you get that idea?
OP Mehdi Ahmadi 1 | 6
8 Sep 2017  #8
@DominicB
i dont say that i become eu citizen but my wife is eu citizen so i can join her
here many people from my country when they marry with afghans that lives there and they can join each other like wife can take the husband and the the husband can take his wife there
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #9
@Mehdi Ahmadi

How long have you known your wife? How long have you lived together in the same house as husband and wife? The consul is going to start with the very firm belief that this is a sham marriage, and you will have to show him lots of evidence that it is genuine. What evidence are you going to be able to present?

If you are not able to prove to the consul's satisfaction that you marriage is genuine, your visa application will be denied and entered into the VIS database.

So if your marriage is not 100% genuine, don't apply for a visa to Poland on that basis. The consul isn't stupid and will know for sure. They have lots of experience with sham marriages and can recognize one from a mile away. With two Schengen denials, one for being a security threat and another for entering into a sham marriage, you will have no chance of ever setting foot in Europe for the rest of your life.

The minute you think that you are smarter than the consul and can outwit him will be the moment that your last hope of ever seeing Europe again dies forever, so be careful.
jon357 63 | 14,341
8 Sep 2017  #10
You are effectively banned from traveling to any European country, including Poland and Norway, for life

This is not strictly true. They often just question you at borders. It all depends on the degree of the perceived threat, on the country (Poland are quite relaxed) and on the individual circumstances.

we meet each other 4 times during this time in Afghanistan, srilanka,Maldives and india

This is something that might be a stumbling block - you need to spend more time with your wife first, to demonstrate that you are a couple.

You may find it easier to visit through a third country however there is still the issue that so far, your marriage is a long-distance relationship. This is something the authorities can be awkwards with. You need to spend more time together with your wife, perhaps starting a family before applying for a visa.

Good luck.
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #11
This is not strictly true.

Consuls from Schengen countries are required by law to automatically check the VIS database before issuing any visa. If he has two strikes against him from two different countries, one for being a security threat, and the other for entering into a sham marriage, it is exceedingly unlikely that a third request would ever be granted, especially considering his country of origin.

You do brush up against another point, though. Even if he is granted a visa, the straż graniczy can always refuse to admit him if they consider him a security risk or if they suspect shenanigans of any sort. Especially if he appears in the Interpol database or any of the anti-terrorist databases, which are automatically checked when they scan his passport. The straż graniczy is also to required to check the VIS database for each arrival (that's what the fingerprint scan is for). They are not bound to admit him just because he has a valid visa. He can also be prevented from boarding his flight to Poland in the first place, as well, if he is in the Interpol database. Passports are checked at the check-in counter and may be scanned at the security checkpoint. An Afghani passport is probably going to be scanned.

He has a really tough row to hoe.

Three red flags that he isn't telling the whole story. The first is that he says he worked five years trouble-free in Norway, but was denied another visa for being a security threat. The next is that he mentions that he is a local journalist and small business owner, ostensibly as proof that he intends to return to Afghanistan, yet he clearly states that he intends to go to Norway when he leaves Poland. The third is that he does not intend to live in Poland with his wife, again because he will be going to Norway. That just doesn't add up.
jon357 63 | 14,341
8 Sep 2017  #12
Especially if he appears in the Interpol database or any of the anti-terrorist databases, which are automatically checked when they scan his passport

That doesn't rule out admission at all - there are plenty of people with Schengen visas who you personally would prefer to exclude.

a security threat.

Likewise - I'm on the database myself, due to travelling to Iraq every month for four years, and while it does occasionally cause delays at airports, it hasn't yet resulted in exclusion from any country.

That just doesn't add up.

A matter for him.
DominicB - | 2,650
8 Sep 2017  #13
That doesn't rule out admission at all

Do you really think an Afghan citizen who is in the Interpol database stands a chance of being admitted into the country, or even getting a visa in the first place? Delays at the airport notwithstanding, you were an EU citizen returning home and were able to give credible reasons for why you appeared in the database. This guy is not an EU citizen, but a citizen of a war torn country that has a long history of exporting terrorism and narcotics traffickers, and the best reason he can give is that it was, quote, "maybe some name mistake". Who's going to believe that? And he has to convince at least three people: the consul, the airport security officer, and the Border Force officer.

There was a reason that Norway denied him entry, and no one is going to believe that it was because of some "name mistake".

By the way, I have a soft spot for Afghanis. My flatmate in Germany was an Afghani and one of the most inspiring people I've ever known. Poland could use more people like him.
jon357 63 | 14,341
8 Sep 2017  #14
Afghan citizens do travel in Europe, Dominic. Interpol or not.

I wish him luck.

I would also remind you that he's asking which visa is more appropriate, and has already received answers.
OP Mehdi Ahmadi 1 | 6
9 Sep 2017  #15
hello again
please read my first topic again mr @DominicB

as i said my topic that i never been in schengen area and and they they reject my visa because they consider me as a threat because i am from Afghanistan which have bad records so it was the way that they could reject my visa

second i said my wife living and working in Norway for 5 years not me
and also we lived together in Afghanistan once for 5 months and other times one one months
also i applied once for schengen visa when rejected me as threat to security we appealed and give document that i am not a security threat and second time they reject me because we dont register our marriage in Poland and maybe i will not leave Norway after my visa expiry

and i want to say that i am not in any record in Interpol or other agency
now my question is what is the best way for me to apply for visa or permit to stay??
Natalia2017
9 Sep 2017  #16
Hei. I am Natalia. Wife to Mehdi Ahmadi.
We have known each other in 2 years and been married for 1.
Right now our marriage is registered both in Afghanistan and Poland.
In those 2 years we spent almost 7 months together.
My husband has never been in Europe and he is not register in any database.
I am Polish citizen that lives and works in Norway. I have been here for 5 years now.
We applied for Schengen visa which was rejected on the grounds that he can be a threat to public security and health. So we found a lawyer and appeled against the decision. The visa was rejected one more time on a ground that our marriage at this time wasn't registered in Poland and that it is not likely that my husband will return to his home country.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
9 Sep 2017  #17
i am not in any record in Interpol or other agency

How could you possibly know that?
OP Mehdi Ahmadi 1 | 6
9 Sep 2017  #18
@Roger5
Because i never done any crime and our nation Hazara minority in Afghanistan never done terrorist works we are from nation Hazara and our people no one in taliban group or isis
Roger5 1 | 1,463
9 Sep 2017  #19
Security services often use a broad brush when assessing risks. Given that many terrorists have slipped through the net and continue to do so, you must appreciate their caution. I sympathise with you, but I suggest you revise your plans. The only alternative I can see is that you engage a very competent human rights lawyer to put together an exhaustively detailed dossier putting your case. That, of course, would be expensive. Good luck.
mafketis 19 | 6,905
9 Sep 2017  #20
Another factor is the stagnant, unimaginative nature of muslim naming culture, which creates many people with the same or very similar names confused by different transcription systems. It's easy for completely innocent people with the same name as dangerous people to get flagged out as dangerous.

A problem is that it's very difficult to prove you're not that dangerous terrorist Mehdi Ahmadi but a separate person.
jon357 63 | 14,341
9 Sep 2017  #21
many people with the same or very similar names

Not that many. Most people from Middle Eastern cultures have their first name, followed by their father's name, their grandfather's name and then a family name. That's four names in total, making it easier to distinguish people apart than the myriad of John Smiths or Andrzej Nowaks. Passports usually have peoples mothers' names on too.
mafketis 19 | 6,905
9 Sep 2017  #22
That's four names in total, making it easier to distinguish people apart than the myriad of John Smiths or Andrzej Nowaks

On the ground in those countries, maybe, but it doesn't translate into western two name contexts. I've definitely heard of people getting on security lists because of their names being the same (or very similar).
jon357 63 | 14,341
9 Sep 2017  #23
Me too, usually because they've done their documents wrongly, or the lists are incomplete.
OP Mehdi Ahmadi 1 | 6
9 Sep 2017  #24
Friends
Now i want suggestions
1.can i apply for permit to stay in Norway?? Not for schengen visa
2.can we live in Afghanistan for some years than go
3.or it's better to forget Europe and live in Afghanistan?
Fester
7 Apr 2018  #25
Merged:

Visa for poland



How to get Polish visa?
shie
24 May 2019  #27
Anyone could help me please to give me an idea which visa do I have to apply for Poland .I have a Philippines passport while PR in Canada. We are going visit in Poland within 15 days .

Thanks
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