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Rights of a consumer when dealing with faulty goods in Poland?


strzyga 2 | 993
26 Aug 2012 #31
From my experience, LeRoi Merlin are good (did I spell it right?). Media Markt are absolutely worst.
With electrical/electronic items, it's always wiser to buy them in smaller shops, they care about the customer more.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Aug 2012 #32
It's Leroy Merlin. I've always found their staff helpful, but never had to return anything to them - and it is the returns policy I am interested in primarily. They are a global firm, but not in the UK. They too, like Auchan, are French.
pip 10 | 1,661
26 Aug 2012 #33
I have taken a few things back to Leroy. Never had a problem.
Wroclaw Boy
26 Aug 2012 #34
Leroy Merlin gave me a full refund on a chainsaw once, i did have to wait a couple of weeks but got the refund never the less. Castorama weren't so willing to actually hand the money back.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Aug 2012 #35
Thanks WB and Pip etc for the posts on LM, good to know where to shop confidently and not worry about hassle if there's a problem later,
LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
27 Aug 2012 #36
Just buy your electrical items from foreign chains such as Carrefour, Auchan, Ikea because of customer service , the others are crap.
bullfrog 6 | 603
27 Aug 2012 #37
Leroy Merlin gave me a full refund on a chainsaw once, i did have to wait a couple of weeks but got the refund never the less. Castorama weren't so willing to actually hand the money back.

Leroy Merlin like Auchan are French, whereby Castorama, which used to be French, is now in the hands of British shareholders. Could this be linked??

Just buy your electrical items from foreign chains such as Carrefour, Auchan, Ikea because of customer service , the others are crap.

If it's Carrefour, you might want to hurry. There are press rumours they might be "reassessung their presence in Poland"
Wroclaw Boy
27 Aug 2012 #38
Leroy Merlin like Auchan are French, whereby Castorama, which used to be French, is now in the hands of British shareholders. Could this be linked??

at some level perhaps, saying that if it becomes common knowledge in Poland that Leroy Merlin has better after sales service Castorama (owned by Kingfisher) will simply adjust their business strategy.

I dont think Auchen PL is renowned for customer service - before, during or after.
mullerriceman 2 | 23
27 Aug 2012 #39
I've always found castorama / leroy merlin / bricoman a breeze to deal with when handing back stuff. No questions asked, no 3rd degree, just your money back.

Auchan however are the biggest bunch of cowboy bastards on this planet. If you buy any electronic goods, they won't give you your money back unless it's been to service 2/3 times. I bought a digital TV decoder, which didn't work, took it back within 24 hours and was introduced to the sign in customer services (upstairs in the shopping centre) which is about 300 metres away from the main entrance to the shop that no refunds are given on electrical goods.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
27 Aug 2012 #40
If you buy any electronic goods, they won't give you your money back unless it's been to service 2/3 times.

Why do people bother with this? Give them a chance to fix it - if they can't - take them straight to the e-sąd. Don't mess around - go straight for the kill.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #41
Are you sure that was Auchan? No hassle at all. Great customer service every time - so far (two years of shopping there).

Carrefour,

You have a sense of humour.

If it's Carrefour, you might want to hurry. There are press rumours they might be "reassessung their presence in Poland"

Am I allowed to say good riddance?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
27 Aug 2012 #42
If it's Carrefour, you might want to hurry. There are press rumours they might be "reassessung their presence in Poland"

I'm certain it's true. Look at the terrible way that their stores are, look at the minimal staffing levels and general "meh" attitude - I don't think they're going to stay long. Tesco are acting very aggressively at the minute, Auchan has mopped up the "one big shop for the week" market, Real are usually in the malls - there's just no real place for Carrefour.

Just buy your electrical items from foreign chains such as Carrefour, Auchan, Ikea because of customer service , the others are crap.

Hahahaha. Carrefour are among the worst in Poland for general terrible service. They just don't care - they never have enough people working on the tills, the people working there often don't have a clue about other departments - it's just a horrible, horrible place. The only saving grace for Carrefour is that their white-label goods aren't too bad.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #43
The only saving grace for Carrefour is that their white-label goods aren't too bad.

Spot on.
mullerriceman 2 | 23
27 Aug 2012 #44
Why do people bother with this? Give them a chance to fix it - if they can't - take them straight to the e-sąd. Don't mess around - go straight for the kill.

That's the most annoying thing about the whole affair - they didn't fix it. They just offered me a new one after 2 weeks - this one had a different problem and has been returned. There's no sense in repairing cheap Chinese tat and they know it, but they'll string you along as they are allowed to do. Will get to find out this week (hopefully) what the deal is and will threaten them with the e-sąd should they use any further delaying tactics.

BTW, if you've used e-sąd a kind of an "idiots 101" on how to do it would be good or basic FAQS i.e. does it cost you any money, can you 'settle out of court'? etc etc
Buggsy 8 | 98
27 Aug 2012 #45
Might as well include RTV EURO AGD, NEONETand MEDIA EXPERT to that list.
In my neighbourhood i was strongly adviced to avoid them and i'm glad i heeded the advice.

take them straight to the e-sąd.

I have always wondered: aren't they just like the rest?
Would love to hear from those that have had their cases resolved by them.

BTW, if you've used e-sąd a kind of an "idiots 101" on how to do it would be good or basic FAQS i.e. does it cost you any money, can you 'settle out of court'? etc etc

How effective is e-sąd?
teflcat 5 | 1,032
27 Aug 2012 #46
Auchan has mopped up the "one big shop for the week" market,

I'm not too happy with Auchan at the moment. The last time I was there something in my wife's bag set off the checkout alarm. We were taken to a room to have her bag searched. Nothing was found that might have set off the obviously faulty equipment, and we were given a very lukewarm apology. A company with better pr would at least have given us a 50PLN voucher and a more heartfelt apology.

As for Media Markt, every time I pass our local one I see a crowd of people at the customer service desk. Not a good sign.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #47
we were given a very lukewarm apology

When that happens in the UK and it's a false alarm, you'd be lucky to get any apology at all. Under these circumstances, they hopefully double-checked it was the bag.Once they established it was, if it was, then if I were your wife I'd have asked them to search the bag at the checkout area in front of witnesses. With the bag empty and passed through the detector, if the alarm didn't sound then it would be something in her bag which still had the tag attached or a RFID chip on something like a travelcard or payment card. If the bag once empty still sounded the alarm, there is a small (approx 8mm x 15mm) tag stuck inside the bag which was the original anti-theft tag when your wife bought the bag. Take it out to avoid this hassle again. Last but not least, tell Auchan by letter that their ochrona need to improve or risk alienating customers at that branch (at the branch I use, they're usually fine with me, when I rang the alarm once we all laughed as I pretended I was going to sprint for it, their member of staff had simply forgotten to remove the round tag from a baseball cap). I know it can be humiliating though - so I do empathise, it's just I tend to laugh these things off usually when they happen to me. I was pulled up an searched at an airport for explosives last year - yes they just picked me out of 100s or 1000s of passengers and swabbed my luggage! Very abrupt to me too. Again I laughed at the drama!

Just remembered, at another Polish supermarket they were doing clearance pans, the girl at the pile of pans priced it after weighing it and stuck the price label and barcode on my pan. When I got to the checkout, security surrounded me at the request of the cashier - for it seems the label was not matching the item and I would have been paying about a quarter of the correct price. It was their own staff's fault, nothing to do with me, and I was escorted to the service desk by security in front of lots of customers, but again I laughed it off and chatted to the guard who spoke a little English and we talked about destinations in Ireland. I just don't let them get to me.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
27 Aug 2012 #48
When that happens in the UK and it's a false alarm, you'd be lucky to get any apology at all.

That's why in the UK, it's wise to simply tell them to get lost - if they lay a finger on you without justification (ie, you haven't nicked anything) - then you can easily get them for unlawful arrest. Tesco have been caught a few times by this there.

As for Media Markt, every time I pass our local one I see a crowd of people at the customer service desk. Not a good sign.

Isn't that usually because the same desk doubles up as a place to get the faktura from?
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #49
That's why in the UK, it's wise to simply tell them to get lost - if they lay a finger on you without justification (ie, you haven't nicked anything) - then you can easily get them for unlawful arrest. Tesco have been caught a few times by this there.

No, security in a retailer's premises in the England and Walescan lawfully briefly detain you for suspected shoplifting, that's the law. They have to call the police, however, if they detain you. They have a special room for it in most shops. Otherwise every shoplifter would just leg it.

"Suspicion
Basically, you are entitled to detain a person that you suspect of shoplifting, as long as you have reasonable grounds for this suspicion. In order to detain them, you are also entitled to use a 'reasonable' amount of force. Naturally, if you forcefully detain someone and it turns out that either they weren't shoplifting or you can't prove that they were, they may then be able to accuse you of assault.

For this reason, you should make sure as far as possible that you have reasonable grounds to believe the person is shoplifting before you even approach them.

inbrief.co.uk/employees/being-a-security-guard.htm

The alarm is, AFAIK, considered reasonable grounds. But I could be wrong. That was what I understand as reasonable grounds - don't shoot the messenger.

If shoplifting is established, many shops then opt for a banning order on the shoplifter, but some go to FPN or court etc.

Where there's an innocent mistake, such as in the post above, not much you can do really except hope they have the decency to apologise. I've never heard of them giving vouchers out as a sorry etc.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
27 Aug 2012 #50
No, security in a retailer's premises in the England and Wales can lawfully briefly detain you for suspected shoplifting, that's the law. They have to call the police, however, if they detain you. They have a special room for it in most shops. Otherwise every shoplifter would just leg it.

guardian.co.uk/money/2000/sep/02/jobsandmoney

It explains it quite well here - essentially, if they do attempt to detain you, they have to get it absolutely right. If they get it wrong, they're open to prosecution for unlawful arrest. So - if you haven't nicked anything, you can quite reasonably tell them to get lost. If they attempt to detain you after this - it's a pretty easy win in the civil courts, especially if the police turn up and find nothing. It's why they won't (or shouldn't) attempt to detain you for the alarm sounding - if they don't have it absolutely certain that you've been stealing, they can easily be taken to court for it.

As for reasonable grounds - from what I can gather, the general assumption is that you have to be witnessed actually concealing something. The alarm wouldn't be enough, as it's possible that the machine is faulty - I doubt they are regularly calibrated.

Would be interesting if anyone on here knows what the law is in Poland.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #51
It explains it quite well here

That article is year 2000, AFAIK they have changed things now, but I could be wrong and if I am then am happy to stand corrected as am all for civil liberties and innocent people being treated fairly,
Avalon 4 | 1,068
27 Aug 2012 #52
The law has probably changed since 2000, the UK used to allow free speech but that's gone now along with civil liberties.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #53
They certainly need to sit down and think hard about where they're going with some of the stuff there, it is a worry, and yes I share your concerns.

Interesting to read these views on the subject of alarms sounding as peope leave a store - both sides are here.
Harry
27 Aug 2012 #54
I was pulled up an searched at an airport for explosives last year - yes they just picked me out of 100s or 1000s of passengers and swabbed my luggage!

A slightly off-topic top tip for you: if you're taking Cheddar cheese in your hand luggage, take it out of your bag and have it x-rayed separately. Do not have it in your hand luggage next to wires from your phone charger and laptop charger: if you do that, they refuse to even swab the bag and won't touch it until a snifter dog gives it the all clear.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #55
Thanks Harry, they assume it's an explosive block do they!! Yes I do indeed take hard cheeses in my bag, I will do as you say :o)

When I was stopped last time, I was sans cheese btw, they just decided I looked a well dodgy geezer :o)
"You're looking for drugs?" I asked cheerfully. "Explosives!" came the abrupt reply with "Stand there!" Still makes me chuckle.
cms 9 | 1,271
27 Aug 2012 #56
There are some fees with the e- sad, about 20 percent of the normal court fees, so somewhere around 100 zloty.

The success rate of the e- sad is about 80 percent but once you get a positive judgement you have to wait ages for execution as the amounts are too small for the komorniks to give them proper attention. The komorniks also know that it's easier to frighten a small businessman than pitch up in piaseczno and try and get cash out of auchan.

Atnany rate it's not going to be a very effective tool against media markt or auchan. If they decide to contest the case then it will automatically be referred to a physical court, probably in the place where the retailer has their head office. Since most of these guys employ 10-15 lawyers in-house then they will certainly not ignore any e-sad cases. Once you are in a physical court case you will waste more time and money than your router or washing machine cost in the first place.

I would advise you to hassle them at the point of sale as much as possible. Be aware however that if you are abusive then they are within their rights to ban you from the premises, which might be a problem if the place you normally shop at
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #57
Auchan has among the highest ratings for standards if you check this review website
jakoscobslugi.pl
teflcat 5 | 1,032
27 Aug 2012 #58
I laughed it off and chatted to the guard who spoke a little English and we talked about destinations in Ireland. I just don't let them get to me.

What bothered me was that in a huge place with umpteen checkouts it was entirely possible that one of my clients, or one of my wife's clients, or someone we knew might have seen us hauled off to the little room. We are not in the happy position of being able to laugh it off.

Isn't that usually because the same desk doubles up as a place to get the faktura from?

Yes, you're right. Didn't think of that. Apologies to Media Markt. btw about four years ago I stopped listening to RMF FM and similar because of MM's infuriatingly aggressive ads.

if you're taking Cheddar cheese in your hand luggage, take it out of your bag and have it x-rayed separately.

You have brought up a very sore point Harry. I had about 2kg of the finest mature Cheddar in my hand luggage last March at LHR, as well as two hero-size jars of Marmite. Everything was confiscated. Of course, as a gent I laughed along with the hard-pressed airport staff (gritted teeth). I wondered who the hell makes the rules, and are they that hard and fast that there's absolutely no discretion afforded to the staff. For Christ's sake, it was Cheddar and Marmite.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
27 Aug 2012 #59
had about 2kg of the finest mature Cheddar

Painful.

I assume that they don't like blocks of cheese - they don't have equipment that can tell it's cheese and not semtex? I'd better only buy slices then, otherwise I'll be right cheesed off.
strzyga 2 | 993
28 Aug 2012 #60
Where there's an innocent mistake, such as in the post above, not much you can do really except hope they have the decency to apologise. I've never heard of them giving vouchers out as a sorry etc.

I was checked once at Rossmann - spent too much time at the mascara stall. A voucher, you say? Hm...
I asked them if they would apologise if I'm clear, and they did. Not a nice experience though.

Would be interesting if anyone on here knows what the law is in Poland.

A suspicion of theft is enough. They may ask you to take everything out of your bag, pockets etc. but they can't touch you. If you refuse, they call the police. I don't think the police can search you without a prosecutor's order, but they can take you to the police station to further clear the matter.


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