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PESEL for EU citizen working for a EU company (not Polish) in Poland


lucas77    
5 Jan 2015  #1
Hello!

I'm an EU citizen working for a EU company (not Polish) in Krakow, and I need a PESEL number for taxes/social security reasons.

My company told me that I needed just an online form (ewnioski.pl/), fill it and deliver it to the City Council.
So I went there and I was told that I need to register my residence first, and when I went to register my residence was again told that I needed first a Karta Czlonkowska UNII or something like that.

I have been searching the internet and asking around and getting a lot of contradicting info, so I would like to ask if this process is normal or am I misunderstanding something.

Thank your for your attention.
terri 1 | 1,440    
5 Jan 2015  #2
Welcome to Poland!!!
Welcome to a nervous breakdown any day soon......
InWroclaw 89 | 1,922    
5 Jan 2015  #3
I think you need to get the stay registration blue card from the Foreigners' Office (it certifies you as registered to stay) and then you go to the city council office with your flat's tenancy agreement or deed if you bought a flat plus your passport and the blue card, and they will issue you with a PESEL in a few weeks. They might also issue one on the strength of your employer's letter confirming employment, but I think when that's the case it's for your employer to get the PESEL for you.
OP lucas77    
5 Jan 2015  #4
Sorry for ranting :)
It's the first time I've to deal directly with so much bureacracy and it does not help that only one or two people in the entire office know a word of english.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #5
Hi,

yes, first of all you have to register your arrival in Poland. For that, you need the following:

1 Copy of your employment contract + original version to show them
1 Copy of your ID or passport + plus the original to show them
2 Applications forms - all filled out in Polish with oeriginal signatures (so don't fill one out sign it and then make a second copy)

1 Statement specifying your arrival in Poland
1 Statement indicating that your understand your rights and duties of registration

After about 2 -3 weeks, you will get your "zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowanie pobytu obywatela unii europejskiej". Of course, you will have to go and pick it up. They don't send it.

With the "zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowanie pobytu obywatela unii europejskiej" you go to the town hall to register your actual address. You do this with your passport. application form, Certification of registration (zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowanie pobytu obywatela unii europejskiej) as well as your landlord (or a legal rep. of your landlord).

After another 2 - 3 weeks, you can go and pick up your piece of paper with your PESEL number.

It may sound like a complicated process, but in reality it is fairly easy (if......your landlord is willing to register you).
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #6
Actually all you need to do is register as resident with the local Gmina, all that is needed is a Rental agreement or Title deeds and your passport. Work contract, insurance etc., etc., comes later at the Urząd wojedwodzki
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #7
It is the other way around.

First, you need your work contract etc to get your resident card from the immigration office. Without that card (actually a white piece of paper), they won't even look at you when you try to register your address (with the rental agreement) to eventually get your PESEL.

First things first.........
InWroclaw 89 | 1,922    
5 Jan 2015  #8
actually a white piece of paper

You mean the

zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowanie pobytu obywatela unii europejskiej ?

It's a blue card here.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #9
It's a blue card here.

I am not sure if there are any differences from Voivodeship to Voivodeship but in Lodz it is a folded white piece of paper.

I just googled it and there seem to be different versions of it when you just google pictures of the zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowanie pobytu obywatela unii europejskiej.

Anyway, whether it is blue in one region and white in another, this is what you need first, before applying for your PESEL.
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #10
"It is the other way around."
What came first the chicken or egg?
The way I said to do it is correct, for example you want to register as a sole trader, to register you need a Pesel, to get this you register with local Gmina for a fixed (temporary) period up to five years. They will issue you with a PESEL automatically, then with Pesel you register your enterprise and pay ZUS (Pesel for this not necessary)

With evidence of enterprise and insurance you get yourself off to Urząd Wojedwodzki ang get 5 years resident permit. I just called the Gmina as was registered at my address in Poland, for three months at the beginning of 2013 and yes a PESEL was allocated me as this is also my dossier number.

The OP must understand this is Poohland, and everybody will tell you different when in fact they know nothing.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #11
The OP must understand this is Poohland, and everybody will tell you different when in fact they know nothing.

That is quite interesting.

I have just been through the process of getting a PESEL last year and your way, would in fact have been the wrong way.

That said, it could in fact be different for people residing in Poland without an employment contract i.e. registered as sole trader. In that case, it would be fairly difficult to first go to register with the immigration office as you simply won't be able to show an employment contract. Right?

However, the OP clearly mentioned that he is employed so "your way" (apparently the only right way) does not apply, does it?

So before you tell the OP that your way is the only right way and everyone else knows infact nothing, you should try to understand that there might be different scenarios. If you are employed with a contract, first you go and get your "zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowanie pobytu obywatela unii europejskiej.", then you go and get your PESEL.

In my opnion, this also seems to be easiest way.
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #12
Wniosek o zarejestrowanie pobytu na terytorium RP składa się osobiście, nie później niż w następnym dniu po upływie 3 miesięcy od dnia wjazdu na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej.

OK how do you prove the day you arrived?
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #13
OK how do you prove the day you arrived?

As a EU citizen, they do not ask you for proof (at least they did not ask me). However, they ask you to tell them when you have arrived anyway. Whether or not you tell them the truth, is up to you.
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #14
I do not want to get into a long winded argument with you but as I speak fluent polish and have been in and out of poland for the last 24 years know what I'm talking about, The information given on the foriegnersinpoland is absolutely correct, the Pesel will be issued automatically after you've registered as resident. So the OP should register his address with the Gmina and within a few weeks will be allocated a PESEL, then within three months he can go to Urząd Wojewodzki and get his residents permit.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #15
I can only tell you which process i have gone through last year and which process every single one of our 300 foreign employees goes through (everyone the same process).

Now unless we have all been wrong, our PESEL was issued incorrectly and Lodz Voivodeship workers do not comply with the Polish immigration rules and regulations, I will not move away from my opinion.

The fact that you have been "in and out of Poland" for the past 24 years does not change my own experience in getting my PESEL (also the experiences of our 300 foreign employees).
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #16
OK how do you prove the day you aąrrived?

As an EU citizen, they do not ask you for proof (at least they did not ask me). However, they ask you to tell them when you have arrived anyway. Whether or not you tell them the truth, is up to you.

So why the three month rule if it is totally irrelevant?
Every EU citizen has the right to register as resident legally in a member state for 90 days and be afforded the same protection and rights as a Citizen of that country, to seek work or for longer stays you must register as resident. The correct procedure is first register with local authority your place of residence and within three months show them (Urząd Wojewodzki) what they want to see work contract/enterprise and social insurance cover.

So the easiest and simplest way to get PESEL is first register with local Gmina for a stay longer than 90 days. within three months he will have his PESEL automatically.

As I said I only registered for three months at my address in Poland, two years ago and from the information I gathered from the web over the weekend found out they had allocated me a PESEL, only when I called them today had this confirmed.

There's an easy way for everything, so if the OP wants to get pushed from pillar to post and end up frustrated he should take your advice and do it the hard way. At least he can get a feel for life in Poland, and pretend he's integrated as "the hard way is polskie norm"
InWroclaw 89 | 1,922    
5 Jan 2015  #17
within three months he will have his PESEL automatically.

They don't issue the PESEL automatically in every city or region, that's for sure. There seems to be some variation between administrative centres.
Harry    
5 Jan 2015  #18
I need a PESEL number for taxes/social security reasons.

Why? You don't need a PESEL number in order to pay tax and ZUS. I've been here since 1995 and have happily paid taxes and ZUS without a PESEL number (admittedly for the past few years I have instead had a NIP number).

when I went to register my residence was again told that I needed first a Karta Czlonkowska UNII or something like that.

No, you need confirmation of your right to reside in order to register for more than 90 days. In theory you are required to register for more than 90 days but there is no punishment for not doing so.
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #19
"Now unless we have all been wrong, our PESEL was issued incorrectly and Lodz Voivodeship workers do not comply with the Polish immigration rules and regulations, I will not move away from my opinion" .

Not incorrectly just not in the right order, because you have gone to register immediately for a resident permit without first registering as temporary resident, so have jumped the gun. Your entitled to your opinion it's like an AH everybody has one even me ; )

If your so adamant you know, why don't you start a website like foriegnersinpoland and state the procedure as they do, simple and clearcut?
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #20
PESEL automatically.

They don't issue the PESEL automatically in every city or region, that's for sure. There seems to be some variation between administrative centres.

That could well be the reason as to why it was so easy for chesnakas.

I can definitely confirm that they do not issue PESEL numbers automatically in Lodz.

If your so adamant you know, why don't you start a website like foriegnersinpoland and state the procedure as they do, simple and clearcut?

The level is slowly but surely dropping :)

Ok, so i just went to foreigners in poland website. Here is what they say:

"To get a PESEL number you need to fulfil a couple of legal obligations that hang over a foreigner. First thing is obtaining a residence permit for a fixed period of time and the second is registering your place of residence. (...) It takes up to 4 weeks for the City Council to issue you with the PESEL, but it may be less depending how busy the Council is"

foreigners in poland / polish-law/pesel-number.html

Can you please explain to me how this is in any way different to what i have stated in post number 5 of this thread?
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #21
Yes they do, and it's national. Even after going to Urząd Wojewodzki and getting your residents permit your PESEL will only be issued after you have registered you Permanent place of residency, Here is what is demanded to register for the residents permit, as you can see as an Enterprise you need to present copies of extract from business register, Regon and NIP to obtain all of this you need PESEL, how do I get a PESEL? First register as temporary resident for stays longer than 90 days and it will be issued automatically.

Zależnie od celu pobytu dodatkowo należy dołączyć:

Wykonywanie pracy:

pisemne oświadczenie pracodawcy lub podmiotu upoważnionego do powierzenia obywatelowi UE wykonywania pracy o zamiarze powierzenia mu wykonywania pracy lub zaświadczenie o wykonywaniu pracy, wskazujące okres zatrudnienia.

Praca na własny rachunek na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej:

kserokopię odpisu z Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, Regon, NIP lub kserokopię zaświadczenia o wpisie do ewidencji działalności gospodarczej.
Harry    
5 Jan 2015  #22
I can definitely confirm that they do not issue PESEL numbers automatically in Lodz.

They do not issue the things automatically in Warsaw either. I don't have one, as shown by my certificate confirming my right to reside in Poland.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,922    
5 Jan 2015  #23
"To get a PESEL number you need to fulfil a couple of legal obligations that hang over a foreigner.

:D Nope and nope, I am 100% sure that is not the way it went here. So that's either a new procedure or is not universally applied.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
5 Jan 2015  #24
What did you have to do to get yours?
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #25
Numery PESEL nadaje wyłącznie Minister Spraw Wewnętrznych. Inne organy administracyjne w naszym imieniu wnioskują o jego nadanie.
PESEL is exclusively issued by Ministry of Interior or agents of.
Do wniosku trzeba będzie załączyć akt urodzenia (umiejscowiony) oraz adres stałego zameldowania. Wniosek składamy w urzędzie miasta lub gminy, który w naszym imieniu występuje o nadanie numeru ewidencyjnego PESEL

This is for a Baby but as a foriegner registering for the first time it's the same
For the application you need to attach Birth certificate (not applicable in our case) or permanent address, Application deliver to Urząd Gmina, which will in our name Issue PESEL.

English only please

Harry have you asked by the Gmina for it? I told you I registered 2 years ago for three months and was issued it, they didn't tell me and I didn't ask. Today I called them and yes I have a PESEL.

So ok, you need a PESEL, who can find the application form for it? if it's not issued by the Gmina automatically there must be an application form for one, somebody please let me see it as I've searched the Web and can't find one.

Sorry for the polish but thought if translation was attached it was acceptable.
milawi - | 60    
5 Jan 2015  #26
here is the website you can download it from
msw.gov.pl/pl/sprawy-obywatelskie/centralne-rejestry-pan/32,PESEL.html#kto
- click: Wzór wniosku o nadanie numeru PESEL
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #27
Edited by: milawi Today, 06:55pm ☓ #30

Thanks, I'm just going to read it through

Collection of social security - Universal Electronic System of Population Register is run since 1979 and contains data of people registered for permanent residence or temporary residence of over 3 months, persons applying for an identity card or passport, as well as persons for whom separate provisions need to have a number Social Security.

So ok, without registering yourself in the Local Residency Registry for three months or longer you won't get a PESEL

who can Get a .PESEL

b) foreigners registered for permanent or temporary residence of over 3 months on the basis of Art. 26 of the cited Act - at the request of the municipality, note "At the request of municipality"

See Johnny foriegner cannot ask for it himself.
sobieski 107 | 2,133    
5 Jan 2015  #28
I don't have one, as shown by my certificate confirming my right to reside in Poland.

I still don't get that one - and I live since ages in Poland - how you can get by without a Pesel. You need it practically for everything.

You don't need a PESEL number in order to pay tax and ZUS.

For sure you need a NIP to pay ZUS. In any online banking program you have to fill in your NIP, and as a second reference Pesel or Regon. There is no way around that.
chesnakas 1 | 22    
5 Jan 2015  #29
For sure you need a NIP to pay ZUS. In any online banking program you have to fill in your NIP, and as a second reference Pesel or Regon. There is no way around that.

I have a bank account in Poland with ING and use their online banking, don't need to use anything other than my inlog and password, and to open my account only needed Title Deed, Temporary Registration and Passport, and also to pay ZUS you do not need a PESEL (NIP). I bet if Harry called the Urząd Miasta and asked about his PESEL they will give it to him.
Harry    
5 Jan 2015  #30
I still don't get that one - and I live since ages in Poland - how you can get by without a Pesel. You need it practically for everything.

I've: been granted numerous residency permits and visas; bought a flat and a car; opened a company; signed up for accounts with gas, water, electricity telecoms and internet companies; opened bank accounts and been given credit cards; set up post-paid telephone accounts; etc. Never once have I needed to give my PESEL number.

For sure you need a NIP to pay ZUS. In any online banking program you have to fill in your NIP, and as a second reference Pesel or Regon. There is no way around that.

Depends how badly you make the bank want to make that payment. Citibank used to insist that they needed a SWIFT code in order to send money to the UK; now they know better than to insist.

I bet if Harry called the Urząd Miasta and asked about his PESEL they will give it to him.

I'm sure they would. But why would I want one? The only thing it enables me to do is to get points on my driving licence!



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