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Just got my permanent resident permit to live in Poland :)


Moonlighting 31 | 234
28 Jun 2015 #1
Hello ;) Wow, just a bit over 8 years since I registered on this forum after discovering Poland, and almost five and a half years of residence in Krakow after moving from Belgium. Even got married to a Polish girl here and very happy about my life.

In March this year, I was entitled to asking for a permanent resident permit and got it. I went to the Foreigners office in Krakow, and talked and filled up the long form without difficulty, as I learnt Polish over the years. Where asked why I want a permanent stay, I wrote my reasons: conducting an IT business here, and having a family life with my Polish wife. The civil servant also wrote down my phone number and e-mail, saying that if there was "something", they would contact me within 10 days, but nobody contacted me. After a week I just received a letter with a copy of investigation request sent by the Administration to 3 distinct police departments to check whether I'm in their files (this is standard procedure, I already got that 5 years ago when applying for temporary residence).

Then I received a very official and polite e-mail after 5 weeks to inform me that I had been granted a permanent resident permit and I should come and retrieve it from the Foreigners office. It looks like a Polish identity card, except that it bears 2 big "RP letters, and informations about my origin. It will better fit in my wallet than the previous resident permit (temporary) made of paper and larger ;-)

So, who on this forum is a foreigner who also got a permanent resident permit? Was it easy or tough for you to get it?

I was told that not so many immigrants have that kind of permit, and the Administration can be choosy. Well, I've come to meet many foreigners in Krakow, mainly through those language exchange meetings, and sometimes had the feeling that some of them are rather hiding in Poland. You socialize with them over the years, but realize that you don't even know their full name, or what they do for a living. What's your opinion on this?
Nathans
28 Jun 2015 #2
Congratulations! So you've been without Poland's residency for over 5 years, how did you manage to survive ;)
Kamaz
28 Jun 2015 #3
Just waiting for mine, did all the form filling/photos etc.......been about 3 weeks now, had the official letter to say the process is in action.........the only person I,ve met who I had the feeling was hiding from the law, or a bad business failure was an Irish chap....who knows maybe I,m completely wrong and he is just hiding from a rather nasty ex wife/g/f?? This is a rather out of the way part of Poland. Oh and I,m hiding from the hustle and bustle of urban life in the UK.
Marsupial - | 886
28 Jun 2015 #4
Congratulations moonlighting. All the.best.
Polsyr 6 | 769
28 Jun 2015 #5
can be choosy

Actually anyone married to a Polish citizen for longer than 3 years and living in Poland longer than 2 years on temporary residence can get a permanent residence permit, provided they don't have outstanding tax issues and don't have legal/security issues.

hiding in Poland

Plenty of Poles hiding in Poland, and let's not get started on foreigners hiding here. Edit to add: not unique to Poland at all. Those that want to hide "further" tend to go further east for example to Russia.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
28 Jun 2015 #6
Have had my permanent resident permit for just over 5 years now. It was a fairly quick process, letter from the local mayor, visit from the local police and a trip to Krakow to pick up the document. Not married but a stable relationship and a 9 year old, Polish, daughter.
tictactoe
28 Jun 2015 #7
@Avalon...Where were you from.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
28 Jun 2015 #8
Originally from the UK via Spain.
OP Moonlighting 31 | 234
28 Jun 2015 #9
Oh and I,m hiding from the hustle and bustle of urban life in the UK.

I can understand you. My parents had English friends who were fed up of London at some point and started a new life in Cambridgeshire in the late eighties ;-)

@Polsyr,

Well, that's what I was thinking of. On one side there is the law, then if something is arguable, they may just extend a temporary permit instead of granting a permanent one. I've heard stories about that (true stories from consular source). What they also look at is whether you can justify earning a salary in Poland for 5 years (if there is an interruption, or if you "forgot" to fill up the PIT37 form), you may get in trouble or have your situation delayed.
ivnp71 1 | 46
2 Jul 2015 #10
Congratulations Moonlighting!!!
What are the requirements to get the permanent residence for EU citizens married to a polish national?
What about the registered address? Do you need "zameldowania na pobyt staly" from the municipal office?
How long it takes to get it? 1 month? and how is the application in Wroclaw, anyone who has recently applicated there?
Thank a lot!!!!!!!!!
OP Moonlighting 31 | 234
4 Jul 2015 #11
@ivnp71
You must also prove that you have been a temporary resident for at least 5 years. It means that, over the past 5 years, you must have spent more than 6 months each year in Poland, and a good proof is to show how you earnt your living (work contracts, income tax declarations - yes, they can check).
Polsyr 6 | 769
4 Jul 2015 #12
You must also prove that you have been a temporary resident for at least 5 years

@Moonlighting @ivpn71; If you are currently married to a Polish citizen, have been married to him/her for longer than three years, and your marriage is registered in Poland, regardless of whether you are from EU or not, then this is shortened to 2 years (on temporary residence), not 5. Also, the requirement to show a regular source of income is dropped in this case.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
4 Jul 2015 #13
I was told that not so many immigrants have that kind of permit, and the Administration can be choosy

No, this isn't quite true. The permit is given to anyone that meets the criteria, they don't have the choice to refuse or accept an application provided it meets the requirements. There's a very specific list of criteria in law, and they have no option to refuse someone that meets the criteria.

I've had it for a year now, and it's accepted in Poland as an ID card without fuss.
Harry
4 Jul 2015 #14
I've had it for a year now, and it's accepted in Poland as an ID card without fuss.

Does getting one affect the process of getting a Polish passport? I'm considering getting a Polish passport in a year or two (i.e. before the UK's in/out EU referendum) and would want to have the 'clock reset' on the number of years that one needs to be here before getting a Polish passport (I understand that that does happen, a mate of mine already qualified for a Polish passport but then when he got married no longer qualified until he'd been married for a couple of years because the 'clock' had been reset).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
4 Jul 2015 #15
As far as I know, the whole system changed with the Citizenship Act 2013 - now you're obliged to get the "right of permanent residence" before getting citizenship. I know what you mean about the clock, but as far as I know, that system has gone now.

Mind you, from what I understand, once you get permanent residency, they won't withdraw it unless you do something incredibly stupid (like actually get sent to prison for more than 3 years).
Polsyr 6 | 769
4 Jul 2015 #16
Does getting one affect the process of getting a Polish passport?

As far as I know, Having a permanent residence is a precondition for citizenship in all cases except two:
1. Naturalization by President of RP.
2. = on the basis of Polish ancestry.

Once you have PR, the clock can be reset - for example if you stay out of Poland more than 6 months in one shot except under certain conditions...

You can lose the PR all together - for example if you stay outside more than 6 years in one shot plus other circumstances...
ivnp71 1 | 46
5 Jul 2015 #17
but if in the past 5 years the EU citizen married to a Polish national didn't work in Poland...what will happen? Will not be may grant the PR?

Do the administration ask for financial resources when applying PR?

Permanent residence (>5 years) for EU nationals

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/eu-nationals-permanent-residence/index_en.htm

Please do not copy-paste information.

It is not necessary that one prove to have a job,sufficient resources, health insurance and so on under the law.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
6 Jul 2015 #18
but if in the past 5 years the EU citizen married to a Polish national didn't work in Poland...what will happen? Will not be may grant the PR?
Do the administration ask for financial resources when applying PR?

Yes. You need to prove that you've been working in Poland regardless of the method of applying, and this information is cross-checked with the tax office. If you've been working "online" and staying out of the Polish tax system, expect a negative decision. The work information is used to collaborate your presence in Poland for the last 5 years.

It is not necessary that one prove to have a job,sufficient resources, health insurance and so on under the law.

It most certainly is. The Polish authorities want to see these things.

Can I ask why you seem to be obsessed with the idea of citizenship and permanent residency in Poland? Aren't you a Spanish citizen?
Kamaz
6 Jul 2015 #19
Hmmm.....if you need to prove you have worked how will they check on me.......I am proud of the fact that in the 5 or so years I have been in Poland I have not worked for a minute or earned a cent!!!(grosz) I came her to retire, not start the rat race again. When I went in they simply asked for receipts for registering of vehicles and such for the last 5 years, we provided letters from the doctor, local councillor, chief of Police, Head of a charity I put in time volunteering for. When we arrived our Polish bank asked us if we wanted to be considered as 'paying tax in another EU country' we filled a form and are thus considered as such. We have paid local taxes....before we re-registered it as a classic, one of our 'cars' (maybe pick up is better?) was considered to be a 'heavy goods vehicle' so we had to pay a yearly tax...(even though it was never used for goods carriage - just fun).
Avalon 4 | 1,068
6 Jul 2015 #20
I have not worked since I have been here and was not asked that when I applied and received my PR. I have made some investments but never a wage or salary. Paid tax on profits only.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
6 Jul 2015 #21
I think the tax record is enough in this case - if your investments were enough to live on, then it's more or less identical to having worked.

I am proud of the fact that in the 5 or so years I have been in Poland I have not worked for a minute or earned a cent!!!(grosz).

That works as well, but retired people are treated differently. Anyway, a letter from the chief of police is worth its weight in gold ;)

When we arrived our Polish bank asked us if we wanted to be considered as 'paying tax in another EU country' we filled a form and are thus considered as such. We have paid local taxes

Hmm... be careful with that. You should be paying tax on the interest in the bank account, and you should definitely declare all your income to the taxman here.
Kamaz
6 Jul 2015 #22
Just checked with the wife.......we have a Sterling account for moving large sums in, which we immediately draw and change when the rate is favourable......our zloti account just pays the electric bills so does not incur interest. Thanks for reminding me though, I hope others have also read and taken this into account, not good to be caught out.
Polsyr 6 | 769
6 Jul 2015 #23
ivpn71 I don't understand what you want to ask.

All the information I am going to provide here applies if and only If you you are married to a Polish citizen, your marriage is registered in Poland, and you have been married for longer than 3 years. You may apply for permanent residence if you meet the conditions set forth by the Act of 12 December 2013 on Foreigners, Section VI, Chapter 1, Article 195.1(4) which basically says you have to be married to your Polish spouse since at least 3 years, and you must have lived in Poland for 2 years, uninterrupted (as defined by the same act, Article 195.4), immediately prior to filing the application on the basis of a temporary residence permit given to you on the basis of your marriage to a Polish citizen (plus other possible basis that I won't go into).

Article 203.1 of the same act specifies the documents required for such an application, and a proof of income is not one of them, however a statement on tax obligations is required to prove that you have no arrears in terms of tax payments. Additionally, marriage certificate, birth certificates of children if any, and ID of the spouse will be required.

Upon having resided in Poland for 2 years (uninterrupted) on the basis of a permanent residence permit in this particular case a foreigner may apply for recognition as a Polish citizen. Proof of income is NOT a required document in this case. Proof of proficiency in Polish is a required document in this case.

Edit: removed invalid link.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
6 Jul 2015 #24
.our zloti account just pays the electric bills so does not incur interest. Thanks for reminding me though, I hope others have also read and taken this into account, not good to be caught out.

Yes, it would probably be wise to declare the (minimal, if it's GBP) interest and any gain on investments - if you're in a small place, people do talk.

Article 203.1 of the same act specifies the documents required for such an application, and a proof of income is not one of them, however a statement on tax obligations is required to prove that you have no arrears in terms of tax payments. Additionally, marriage certificate, birth certificates of children if any, and ID of the spouse will be required.

I can tell you what is actually happening on the ground - while proof of income isn't officially required, the various offices have been applying a blanket rule to everyone and asking for work histories. I've had some discussions with people (including Migrant Info Point here in Poznań) - and the general consensus is that while it might not be strictly legal, it will take a challenge to the administrative courts to change that practice. They've also been asking for criminal checks to be conducted, which again shouldn't be conducted according to the legislation.
Polsyr 6 | 769
6 Jul 2015 #25
Actually criminal checks are required per the code (they have to ask several security related bodies whether any of them has the foreigner in their database and wait 30 days for answer or no answer). Regarding income or work history, could it be a unique issue in Poznan?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
6 Jul 2015 #26
They actually checked the UK in my case, but there wasn't much of a delay - and it was all done in less than 30 days. Allegedly, the ABW and Straz Graniczna checked me out in addition to the criminal checks, but whether they did or not is another question (I have my doubts...).

It could be, although I've heard reports of the same thing happening in Wrocław. Having said that, it wasn't such a bad thing anyway - it meant an excuse to put all my personal files in order. Now, that pesky Polish exam...
Polsyr 6 | 769
6 Jul 2015 #27
Now, that pesky Polish exam

That only applies during Citizenship, not during PR :)
Regarding income or employment - are you talking about people married to Polish citizens or everyone in general?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
6 Jul 2015 #28
Regarding income or employment - are you talking about people married to Polish citizens or everyone in general?

Everyone. I applied under marriage and they basically made it quite clear that it didn't matter - they wanted the same from everyone.

It may just be that the rules (as per usual) take time to be enforced consistently across the country.
Polsyr 6 | 769
6 Jul 2015 #29
take time to be enforced consistently across the country.

Probably the case :)
ivnp71 1 | 46
7 Jul 2015 #30
Yes, I'm Spanish (The Canaries) and married to a polish national since march 2006.I've the temporary residence(zaswiadczenie o zarejestrowaniu pobytu obywatela UE.(5 years) in 2011(urzad wojewodzki) and two months ago may 21 2015 I got the zameldowania na pobyt staly(municipal office).I don't work in Poland cause I have financial resources,polish bank accounts(deposits etc).

In 2016 I'm going to ask for PR ,if I haven't worked during the last 5 years in Poland the administration won't grant to me the PR? It's ridiculous!!!!


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