The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Law  % width posts: 19

Non-Polish Fathers rights for child in Poland


notapolyak 1 | 2
14 Aug 2013  #1
My wife has taken my daughter to Poland without my knowledge. It was going to happen sooner or later... that's another story.
I am trying to organise a visitation to see my child, but have been given this new information from her solicitor that I need to provide a written itinerary or plan for my time with my child, and that I will not be left alone with her, ie supervised visitation. I am still married to my wife (registered with Polish authorities) pending divorce proceedings. What are my options and is this legal. After divorce, is this legal and will I have to do this every time I want to visit my daughter.

Thanks to all who reply.
DominicB - | 2,672
14 Aug 2013  #2
The only person who can answer your questions is your own lawyer. You're wasting your time asking a bunch of unqualified clowns on some internet forum for professional legal advice, and it is exceedingly unlikely that any of the answers you will receive here are at all accurate or useful in your particular case.
Harry
14 Aug 2013  #3
My wife has taken my daughter to Poland without my knowledge.

You have serious problems. Very serious ones.

I need to provide a written itinerary or plan for my time with my child, and that I will not be left alone with her, ie supervised visitation.

That can only be ordered by a court. However, your wife can simply refuse you permission to see the kid unless you have a court order saying that you can see the kid.

After divorce, is this legal and will I have to do this every time I want to visit my daughter.

Not unless the court order that, which they shouldn't order unless you give them serious reason to do that.

What are my options and is this legal.

Can I ask on what passport your wife took the child to Poland and what other passport(s) the kid qualifies for. Legally, issuing a passport for a kid under the age of 13 requires the permission of both parents. It is very possible that your wife broke national and international law when taking your kid to Poland.

However, to be very frank the Polish family court system is simply not fit for its intended purpose, it is at best an utter farce and at worst a national disgrace. If I were you but still knew what I do about the Polish family court system, I'd think long and hard about simply removing the kid from Poland by whatever means necessary and then vanishing.
OP notapolyak 1 | 2
14 Aug 2013  #4
Prior to our marriage, we had legal proceedings whereby I was ordered to sign for both non-eu and polish passport applications, which had to be kept current. In these proceedings, I was also granted access for visitations etc. We got married to try and give our child a "family" life, but it was not working out.

Thanks Harry for quick response.
Harry
14 Aug 2013  #5
I was ordered to sign for both non-eu and polish passport applications

Where those signed before a notary (or Polish consul)? If not, they aren't valid.
BTW, have you got another passport for the kid?

In these proceedings, I was also granted access for visitations etc.

Were those signed before a notary? Agreed with the court?
OP notapolyak 1 | 2
14 Aug 2013  #6
All passports with mother.
All proceedings in my home country, western, part of hague convention.
Harry
14 Aug 2013  #7
I'd strongly suggest that you PM a poster here called Ant63 and also have a read of his posts, especially the ones about the Hague convention.
Wulkan - | 3,251
14 Aug 2013  #8
All proceedings in my home country, western, part of hague convention.

Couldn't you make this sentence any less comprehensible?

btw. what does your nick name mean "notapolyak"
McDouche 6 | 286
14 Aug 2013  #9
Couldn't you make this sentence any less comprehensible?

I sometimes wish the moderators would instantly ban anyone who doesn't post in proper English. This is an English language forum. I expect posts that are understandable in that language.
Ant63 11 | 403
15 Aug 2013  #10
Couldn't you make this sentence any less comprehensible?

Its comprehensible if you know what is being discussed!!

national disgrace

An International Disgrace is a better description

I expect posts that are understandable in that language

Learn about what he is talking about and then you would understand. If you don't know what the Hague convention for abducted children is look it up. You never know, you might need it one day. 1,000's have.
Wulkan - | 3,251
16 Aug 2013  #11
Polish family court system is simply not fit for its intended purpose, it is at best an utter farce and at worst a national disgrace.

Because they are in favour of women? that's the best thing about his country.

Its comprehensible if you know what is being discussed!!

It's just not correct but yea you can still figure the meaning out.
Harry
16 Aug 2013  #12
Because they are in favour of women?

They do most certainly not favour women. The only thing they favour is utter incompetence.
Wulkan - | 3,251
16 Aug 2013  #13
thats not what I've heard
Ziemowit 12 | 3,492
16 Aug 2013  #14
If I were you, I'd think long and hard about simply removing the kid from Poland by whatever means necessary and then vanishing

No wonder then that your wife and her solicitor will not let you be left alone with your daughter ...

You're wasting your time asking a bunch of unqualified clowns on some internet forum for professional legal advice

The above quoted answer received by the OP neatly proves that you are not that far from the truth in assessing the supposed quality of "professional legal advice" given here by the forum's "clowns".
Harry
16 Aug 2013  #15
thats not what I've heard

And how many people do you know who have had personal experience with the Polish family court? Perhaps you can explain why a woman I know was ordered by the family court to pay alimony to the man she divorced because he's an alcoholic twat who used to kick seven shades of shiit out of her on a regular basis? Or perhaps you can tell us why a court here accepted as accurate documents a man submitted as income statements to the family court showing that he earned less than he had been paying every month in child support (to the mothers of his three children) for the past three years?

No wonder then that your wife and her solicitor will not let you be left alone with your daughter ...

It's not their choice, is it.

proves that you are not that far from the truth in assessing the supposed quality of "professional legal advice" given here by the forum's "clowns".

Really? Do go into detail about the dealings you have had with Polish family courts. Or are you just lying yet again when you claim to be able to say who is and is not a clown?
Ant63 11 | 403
16 Aug 2013  #16
thats not what I've heard

You heard wrong.

Basically its the kids that lose out in a Polish court. I'm not sure how high the bar is set for parental abuse in Poland, but it's far higher than we are prepared to accept in the UK. The most dangerous person involved in this, is the court psychologist, who will profess to know the intimate details of every aspect of a couples marriage and a child's feelings, all within a 4hr meeting. Its astounding how they come to their immaculate conclusions when the husband or wife and the children are faced with their abuser. They wholly believe what they write in return to the court, and the judge will defend them mercilessly should you question their perspective of reality or their credibility. Most likely the judge will have made his/her decision before anyone set foot in court and the questions to the psychologist will be tailored to increase the standing of his or her choice of winner. You will never know what the questions were though. That is private. What should be noted is it is the judge whom selects the psychologist and his or her court that pays him. A very Polish affair based on greasing palms. It stinks.

A recent decision I am familiar with, the father got the kids and the wife had to pay 2000zlt/month. The kids had to be delivered to the wife for Wednesday and Thursday nights and alternate weekends. Poor kids will never know where home is. The kids lost out and most likely their understanding of relationships will be damaged for ever more.

No wonder then that your wife and her solicitor will not let you be left alone with your daughter ...

If you knew how the Polish Courts operate you would know why that inappropriate remark was made. The guy is in a desperately difficult position. What this guy wants is contact with his child and assuming he is OK, then he should get unmolested contact in Poland. Unfortunately for him he is a foreigner in a prejudiced country.

I give you an example. An English born child was not returned to the UK by the Polish courts because it could not speak English. The child was just over 1 years old. It couldn't speak.
Lenka 2 | 1,422
16 Aug 2013  #17
They wholly believe what they write in return to the court, and the judge will defend them mercilessly

Well, it's lousy but still better than it was. I know a case when a 5 yo was asked by the judge with the presence only of the father there "What did Daddy do to Mummy that she had to leave you". As you can imagine the child said "Nothing" even though the father was an abusing ....... Beating the **** out of the mother and sexually abusing his kids.Now at least there is a psychologist.
Ant63 11 | 403
16 Aug 2013  #18
I know a case when a 5 yo was asked by the judge

Yes its a step up but only moved it from the courtroom to the psychologists.

We have a pretty good system in the UK. An organisation called Cafcass who are entirely independent of the courts; their duty to report their findings to the court, Their first point of call is school, and their enquiries extend to family friends and clubs that the children may be involved in as well as spending time with the kids alone. That way they get a truthful picture of whats going on in a childs mind. Possibly more of an idea than the childs primary carer. Often kids say only the things they think you want to hear.
mazzyuk
21 Sep 2018  #19
Please can someone mail me mazzyuk@me.com. We are in a desperate situation and seriously need help with a similar case.... we are currently waiting on the hague convention but appear to be getting not very far


Home / Law / Non-Polish Fathers rights for child in Poland
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.