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Maintenance & Rights: Polish mother & child in Poland, Irish father in the UK


Monia
13 Jul 2011 #31
This guy might be able to do the job - a paralegal will be cheaper than a proper lawyer, yet he'll probably be able to do the same job anyway.

No way , he has got no qualifications , unless he will send you to his friendly company in Poland .

PM me I will give you valuable informations ( I am a lawyer based in Warsaw , BTW )
OP frustrated 1 | 8
13 Jul 2011 #32
Out of curiosity, what happens if I ignore any summons from Poland? The first hearing is on 19th July, yet I only received the letter yesterday although it does say I don't have to be present...
delphiandomine 85 | 18,270
13 Jul 2011 #33
Out of curiosity, what happens if I ignore any summons from Poland?

You might very well find that a warrant is put out for your extradition as a result. Or, is as more likely, they'll decide in your absence and enforce the judgement in a UK court.
OP frustrated 1 | 8
13 Jul 2011 #34
Meaning what? That bailiffs would turn up at my door looking for the value of the award?
EdWilczynski 3 | 98
13 Jul 2011 #35
frustrated.....I am sorry to be so blunt....but.....without the irrevocable proof by means of a DNA paternity test stating you are the father.....what in the blue blazes are you doing???

Is there something you are not telling us? I mean, you are acting like a lamb to the slaughter.

If the little girl is yours then yes.....you do the right thing...of course you do.

BUT....

You have to have it proven beyond all doubt that you are the father and should have been your first course of action.

You say it was a one night stand (at least that's what you intimate in your initial post) and that you wore protection.....well hello....the odds of her getting pregnant first time are quite low and if you wore protection then the odds are even lower.

Studies show that condoms can be as much as 97% effective at preventing pregnancy when they are used properly. Improper use or failure lowers that to around 86%. I am not a betting man but i'd definitely have a punt on you not being the father.

On picking up that phone the very first time....the first thing I'd have responded with would have been....PROVE IT!!!

I am a stand up guy and would NEVER dream of shirking my responsibilities but if things are as they say you are then you are need to wake up.

It's sad that the girl may potentially grow up without a father BUT if it turns out you are not the father then that is the position her mother put her in not you and you should not feel any guilt as a result.
OP frustrated 1 | 8
13 Jul 2011 #36
You say it was a one night stand (at least that's what you intimate in your initial post) and that you wore protection.....well hello....the odds of her getting pregnant first time are quite low and if you wore protection then the odds are even lower.

It was over the course of a few weeks and I believed that I was the only person seeing her and had no reason to dis-trust her at the time. The girl does look a bit like me but yes you need 100% proof for which I am making enquiries now - it is difficult being in two different countries and obviously her mother has to carry out her duty and do it properly at her end.

I take on board your other comments. I now have a list of lawyer names from Poland (but can't find any in the exact city/region that I need) and a couple of contacts here in the UK for initial advice but any more details greatly appreciated. So as you can see, I'm not shirking responsibilities but want to know ALL the implications; I never wanted to be in a legal situation as I believe it will harm the child and was doing the right thing in terms of providing money and clothes, but it seems that is not enough for this greedy lay-about.
Harry
13 Jul 2011 #37
That bailiffs would turn up at my door looking for the value of the award?

In a nutshell, yes, eventually.

Out of curiosity, what happens if I ignore any summons from Poland?

The court hears only one side of the story and makes its decision on the basis of that information. So you are rather likely to get screwed right over.

I now have a list of lawyer names from Poland (but can't find any in the exact city/region that I need

Which city/region do you need? Send me that by PM if you need to.

I am a lawyer based in Warsaw , BTW

Which would explain your excellent knowledge of libel law. Care for a chance to learn much much more about it?
poland_
13 Jul 2011 #38
I'd rather skip the country or move on so she can't trace me than pay her a penny directly or pay the money into a trust fund or pay directly for receipted purchases...

Some day you will have to face the demons, you can't run forever. Frustrated, focus on establishing if you are the father of this child, the answer is in the tests, not on this forum, I wish all four all you good luck and hope you resolve the situation.

I'm afraid You'll find plenty of crusading male Polish white knights

frustrated, does not even know if he is the father or not, so how can you be so sure the Polish mother is at fault.
Midas 1 | 571
13 Jul 2011 #39
frustrated, does not even know if he is the father or not, so how can you be so sure the Polish mother is at fault.

I'm with EdWilczynski on that one - my bet would be that he's not the father, based on the facts of the case ( contraception in place, mommy most likely being a slut, etc. ).

So I don't really get why comments that he described as cynical and sarcastic were thrown at him on p.1, especially since he coughed up the dough right away once she asked for it. Hence the part about crusading knights.

Many guys wouldn't pay her a penny without a paternity test, it is as simple as that.

Ages ( I do mean ages ago, pretty sure that DNA testing wasn't available back then ) I had a girl point a finger at me in such a case. She was what I'd call a "fun loving type" and I probably placed rather close to the top of the list of possible daddies if analysed from the perspective of annual income.

Told her I'll gladly fulfill any and all responsiblities IF I'm the father. Otherwise she can go and pound sand.

She wasn't all that happy with the answer, but I stuck to my guns never heard from her ever again.

Paternity fraud is real people, please take that into account.
mafketis 23 | 8,428
13 Jul 2011 #40
the mother and her family totally shunned my girlfriend but she was there to support ME

What this tells me (with some experience of Polish ways): They hoped that you would show up by yourself, fall in love with a charming baby girl (whether or not she's yours at that age she's bound to be adorable) and offer to marry the mother. It doesn't make much sense but I'd bet a lot of money that was the plan. If nothing else the girl's mother would like the respectability of a married daughter with child and I wouldn't be surprised if she would like her out of the house too.

I believed that I was the only person seeing her

First mistake. Never believe that again (without very strong evidence).

Paternity fraud is real people, please take that into account.

Yes. There is no shortage of women who can self-justify exploiting some guy economically for years or decades even to support a child that isn't his. I'm not saying all (or even most) women are like that but there are enough of women who are that men need to be super careful and only extend trust when it's well earned. What has this woman ever done that the OP should trust her?

Another wild guess on my part. The woman knows (or strongly suspects) who the father is and knows she can't get money from him and so she chose t sleep with the OP guy early in her pregnancy based on similar looks...
Midas 1 | 571
13 Jul 2011 #41
What this tells me (with some experience of Polish ways): ...

Too true.

Smells like a rather manipulative Polish mum raised in the communist era, a henpecked husband and their assumption that even while he's been gone for a year he's still much better than any local suitors through the sheer virtue of being Irish/foreign.

And right into this brilliant plan barges in our dashing young Irishman with a new girlfriend in tow. I can't even begin to imagine how miffed his baby mama's mum was, especially if his new GF was pretty :-).
Rebirth
13 Jul 2011 #42
Any statistics for that?

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence from many people confirming it's true.

As for statistics, Slavic immigrants make up the highest percentage of prostitutes in western European countries.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
13 Jul 2011 #43
So in fact nonsense. AQnd no suggestion that the OP's ex-girlfriend was on the game.
manali23
21 Nov 2011 #44
join the club, I'm a Brit in PL, been to court for contact and money, going again soon, it's a mess, as foreigners we are treated badly and as men we are treated worse. I had free lawyer as I had no money. Always expect the worse and be prepared for many years in court if you have to go that way. I tried to avoid it but failed, My son's mum wants a free life and doesn't care who she hurts to get it.

Join my cause please guys .facebook.com/pages/Fathers-who-care/323284167946

Monia

Hey I see you are lawyer, may I ask for some advice? I have been to court once for alimenty and currently pay 350, I pay for a flat I don't live in so I can see my son for 12 hours a month with the Curator, when I ask her if my son needs anything, she either doesn't reply or says he needs nothing. I also have to pay for taxis so they can visit me which costs 200 a month, plus I have to pay for the flat I live in with my girlfriend. The mother of my son makes excuses why she can't come to the meetings agreed in court. Currently I pay 1200 a month just to see my son of which my son only gets 350, she wants me to see my son at her place but we cannot get on as she is very angry and believes I should go back to the UK and just send her cash without seeing my son. Already it has been 3 years and I foresee many sad years to come.

Any advice please?
Midas 1 | 571
21 Nov 2011 #45
Currently I pay 1200 a month just to see my son of which my son only gets 350

Get a good, Polish lawyer who operates an active family practice within the jurisdiction of the court that is ruling in the case.

Because you really are just getting shafted, big time.

The mother of my son makes excuses why she can't come to the meetings agreed in court.

A friend of mine who was married to a Polish girl did not see his daughter for 8 months, despite court ordered dates and so on.

Reason?

His daughter was supposedly sick EVERY time it was his day to see her. For 8 months in a row. Doctor signed off on it every time ( co-incidentally, getting a fake sickie from a family doctor in Poland costs around 30 pounds ).

Things did not move forward until he got a better ( expensive ) lawyer.
ryan123
22 Feb 2012 #46
What is the latest?
polishmama 3 | 279
22 Feb 2012 #47
I'd rather skip the country or move on so she can't trace me than pay her a penny directly or pay the money into a trust fund or pay directly for receipted purchases...

Wow, I really cannot believe that you feel that way. And, if your girlfriend knows you feel that way, she's a real winner too. Way to "man up". Btw, good luck skipping the country bc most countries have extradiction laws that will take your pay and send it to the CHILD anyway.

Also, child support and "access" as you call it, are completely seperate. Clothing, books, etc., if that's your child and you want a relationship with them, are and should be imo, beyond child support. Poland's laws favor the mother, as it rightly should. Because that's more likely to favor the child. And if you didn't sign a birth certificate, no you don't get to choose the name, where the child lives, etc. Plus, if you feel that way that you just said above, you don't sound like a committed loving father to have the right to have say in that sort of thing anyway.

DNA testing should be done first, of course. But other than that, if you are the father, get a lawyer but as a woman, I have no sympathy. Sex every time can lead to pregnancy. They teach you that in middle school. And children deserve child support.

Marriage is temporary but parenting a child bonds two people together. Suck it up and don't sleep with anyone unless you are prepared to be a man and care for the baby for the rest of your life.
British Parent
21 Aug 2012 #48
Well done on extracting one single sentence out of context from an entire series of posts to attempt to validate your preconception on men (no one would never have guessed you were a Polish Mama at all :) ). If you care to read and take on board the full story, you will see the guy has been more than fair. In fact it would be easier to view him as having been a bit soft and gullible.

As for Poland's family laws - well they aren't known as the second most backward family laws in the EU in terms of favouring mothers over fathers for nowt (the worst of course being the English and Welsh courts) - and all supposedly done in the name of the child! Shameful really. With unaccountable judges making decision based on who they know, the thickness of the plain, brown envelope and the mood they happen to be in that morning, it is incomprehensible that anyone, bar a Polish female, would find such a system fair.

You say that as a woman you have no sympathy. Well as a PARENT I have lots. The sooner mothers such as yourself start viewing child welfare from the perspective of the child instead of the of the perspective of the precious mother, the sooner all our kids will be better off.
rankalee 2 | 56
21 Aug 2012 #49
Polish woman - Irish man - a child ... without reading your text ... something bad happened, right?
Ant63 11 | 403
21 Aug 2012 #50
all supposedly done in the name of the child!

I think your wrong there really. The courts are not interested in the children really, they prefer the show the parents put on for the 1-3 years it takes to sort it out. meanwhile whoever has the kids is in pole position so look on out, the other parent might abduct them. Wait you can't do that in Poland, theres no law to protect the kids. Anything goes in the fight for the kids. Woe betide you if you are a foreign parent though, the scales a heavily weighted against you and the same applies if you are a polish defector female or male.

As for Polishmama, shes a Polish womens libber and like the rest of Poland, 20 years behind the times. She still believes men owe her a living and not that she should stand on her own two feet. Ignore her, it's boring. We heard it all a lifetime ago.

the worst of course being the English and Welsh courts

You are wrong here also. For some years the English and Welsh courts have been swinging toward the opposite of what you claim. Ok it's slowly, but it's happening. Our family courts are respected around the world and held in very high regard especially in international law. Note that the Polish courts do the opposite to English/Welsh courts and will protect a parents rights above the safety of a child. For example a English court will make orders to protect a child if there is a hint of risk, and sort it out later. A polish court will do nothing to protect the child and allow the status quo to continue until a decision is made in court as to who will have full parental responsibility. So a child in Poland can expect to beaten, for instance, for the next 1.5 years.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,270
22 Aug 2012 #51
Also, child support and "access" as you call it, are completely seperate.

In my view - the two are totally linked. There are too many cases when a parent is denied access (it's a British term) to the child despite courts ordering so - so in my view, by accepting cash, the PWC has the obligation to provide access to the child.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
22 Aug 2012 #52
This Irish fool was paying the "mother of his child" wads of cash each month before he even made her undergo a DNA test?

For two years?

And he rubbered up when the child was "conceived?"

She was probably pregnant before she slept with him.
British Parent
22 Aug 2012 #53
British Parent:
all supposedly done in the name of the child!

I can explain what "supposedly" means if you really want.

Note that the Polish courts do the opposite to English/Welsh courts and will protect a parents rights above the safety of a child.

Thats just rhetoric and anecdotal nonsense. The UK has an abysmal record on equal parenting and a father's position in the case of child's rights is neglible as far as the E&W courts are concenred. Comparing bad with worse doesnt make a particularly strong case I'm afraid.

You're also clearly xenephobic towards Poland.
Midas 1 | 571
23 Aug 2012 #54
You're also clearly xenephobic towards Poland.

Could we stick to the main topic of the discussion?

Sure, courts in England and Wales have their faults, but they are head and shoulders above Polish family courts which are notorious for corruption and shafting the daddy in the arse in whatever way possible, double that if daddy is a foreigner.

I DO NOT recommend getting a good, established, well-connected LOCAL ( underlined 3 times ) lawyer to every foreign bloke who has a family law case in Poland against a Polish chick WITHOUT a good reason for doing so.

Please read between the lines sometimes.
British Parent
24 Aug 2012 #55
Anyone who says the English & Welsh courts are anything other than abysmal (to fathers directly but in the end indirectly to the child) I would suspect doesn't know what they are talking about and as I said comparing two rotten systems with each other is rather pointless. And just because it's not corruption (in E&W) doesn't make it less abysmal - that the unfairness is part and parcel of the system arguably makes it worse.

Posters would do well to read what is written in context.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240
29 Dec 2012 #56
Shame there was no update on this thread from the OP since last year, I wonder what happened in the end...
Sirrocco - | 1
22 Jun 2015 #57
Hi All,
I would like to have some info about how does it work out in Poland for the my case as follow:
I was living along with my kids and their mother in Poland for 4 years over.when i went on holidays to visit my parents abroad, the mother brought a man home just the day before i came back to Poland (2013 June), my daughter told me there was a sweaty uncle who was sleeping on my side of bed ,,and she does not like him because he was breathing strongly and sweat was dripping from him on the her ,

I said to myself forgiveness is a great tool But the same year( 2013 August ) I was home at night sitting watching some news and the mother who invited a friend who on a trip from UK to Poland at our home, I saw with my own eyes in front of me on the balcony , the mother was having sex with him on the balcony she already had her night dress( they went on the balcony couple of times to smoke), I was surprised and , the man did have his 2 kids with him, i told him to leave at the earliest in the morning ,as it was around 01:00 in the morning when they were having sex on the balcony and wet weather and he was on alcohol

I tried even that to bring us back , tried very hard but could stop thinking what kind of mother she is ,I move out by October 2013.

I could not stop thinking about that.How could a woman does not have respect for herself or for the kids.When I look at her i just can't believe it

Now she put the case to Court in Poland looking for alimony ( 2000 Pln for 2 kids, I am sending her around 200 euro as she is working in a good position well paid ) which i think is too much. I did send the APPEAL to court even my lawyer was in court to represent on the hearing day me ,as I am on training for new job.I am not working at the moment( my lawyer is in a town over 400 km to the town where the hearing is).

And she did file a case for Parental rights, and the first hearing gonna be in October 2015,No when i asked her I would like to visit the kids where they spend some times with me during my 2-3 days when will be on visit there she told me , she has to take a day off for that, It looks like a to supervised

What are the rights of a father in this case Please?
And I do not understand why supervise when the court did not rule out any hearing yet about restriction or so.?
Should I look for a lawyer in the town where the case is ? and should i ask the court about her behaviour supervising me or what so ever she is having her mind?

Thanks in advance for your replies


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