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Landlord in Poland entitled to break in, change locks after non payment of final month's rent?


InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
14 Oct 2013  #1
Despite notifying the landlord that I would not be paying the final month's rent for the flat, the landlord did not respond. This was probably because many viewers (by that I mean prospective tenants who were due to see the flat). Half didn't turn up and the other half didn't want the flat. I'm guessing that prior to this point, the LL didn't want to lose my goodwill in admitting the viewers at whatever times the agent dictated, and of course when no one turned up and I waited in for 2-3 hours, neither the agent nor LL even apologised.

Yesterday the LL SMS messaged me to say that I can "bet on the locks being changed when you go out shopping and your stuff in the car park" if I don't pay the last month's rent and instead insist my deposit be used.

Isn't that completely illegal or even criminal, even if I haven't paid the last month's rent (I am 4 days overdue). I have a written tenancy agreement.

My LL is relatively wealthy, so I am not sure what's possible, i.e. break in and evict me before the end of this month, and then worry about it later.

Is it not a police matter if I get this harassment or indeed they actually send the boyz round to do it?
Harry
14 Oct 2013  #2
Isn't that completely illegal or even criminal

Yes it is. However....

I don't pay the last month's rent and instead insist my deposit be used.

You can't see why doing that would put him in a possibly bad position? Really?

I really wouldn't worry about getting your deposit back: it is almost certain that your landlord hasn't been declaring the rent to the tax office (and paying the resulting tax), so if he tries to hang onto your deposit, you just tell him that either you get your deposit back, or you report him to the tax office and start court proceedings which will result in him giving you your money back and paying the court fees.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
14 Oct 2013  #3
Hmm yes but I don't want to pay the last month's rent because I have found out the LL knew all about the problems here before and yet (surprise surprise) feigned ignorance. So, I have very little confidence in getting my deposit back. In fact, the LL never even mentioned it when I submiited my notice, just told me to hand the keys to the agent when I leave, not a murmur about my deposit ever, as if it doesn't exist.

Any more advice on where I stand on this from a legal perspective if the threat is carried out?

I am reluctant to go to the shops in case it is not just an idle threat although I know warnings such as that often are just that.
poland_
15 Oct 2013  #4
You have breached the tenancy agreement by not sticking to the rules of contract.

Isn't that completely illegal or even criminal, even if I haven't paid the last month's rent (I am 4 days overdue). I have a written tenancy agreement.

Its a civil matter.

Is it not a police matter if I get this harassment or indeed they actually send the boyz round to do it?

What can the Police do its a civil matter, furthermore if you live on a private osiedle on a private road the police should not intervene on such trivial matters thats the reason you pay for private security, the LL is within here right to ask security to stop you entering the osiedle or building in this situation as you are no longer a tenant and in breach of contract.

Yesterday the LL SMS messaged me to say that I can "bet on the locks being changed when you go out shopping and your stuff in the car park" if I don't pay the last month's rent and instead insist my deposit be used.

In your LL wishes to change the locks she has the right to do so, its her apartment and she has a spare set of keys so she will not be breaking into the apartment.

In another thread I suggested you pay the LL a token % of the rent for the last month to cover monthly overheads.

InWro, you are playing hardball when there is no need, if you do not trust your LL, why should she trust you.

The only thing you have going for you is she has sent you a text and not a signed letter by email, fax or recorded delivery,so check your contract in one of the clauses it should state method of communication in the event of dispute.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
15 Oct 2013  #5
According to the law you must pay every month. You cannot simply inform that you're not paying for the last month. Any dispute can solve court. Despite of that he cannot simply change locks. If he hasn't done that yet you may change locks 1st :)
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
15 Oct 2013  #6
Its a civil matter.

So, what is it that someone posted about unlawful eviction, whereby a Polish tenancy contract has to have an evict-to address or else an eviction is unlawful. An eviction becomes immediately lawful if the rent isn't paid? Without a court order? I am surprised. Very unlike the UK - it appears a tenant here has no rights at all. As you're a landlord, I supposed you'd know. Thanks for posting.

According to the law you must pay every month. You cannot simply inform that you're not paying for the last month. Any dispute can solve court. Despite of that he cannot simply change locks. If he hasn't done that yet you may change locks 1st :)

Thanks for posting.
poland_
15 Oct 2013  #7
An eviction becomes immediately lawful if the rent isn't paid? Without a court order? I am surprised. Very unlike the UK - it appears a tenant here has no rights at all.

You have a short tenancy agreement, you have signed the contract and agreed to the rules.

InWro, it will drive you insane if you constantly draw on a British solution for a Polish problem. Only Polish solutions for Polish problems work.

Despite of that he cannot simply change locks. If he hasn't done that yet you may change locks 1st :)

Yes she can change the locks, its her apartment she can do as she wishes it is simply an improvement for security. If he does not pay his rent she can also take all of his possesion's out of the apartment, he has absolutely no right to change the locks as he has given notice to vacate,if he wanted to be a real areh@le there are other ways.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
15 Oct 2013  #8
Wynajmujący ma prawo do wypowiedzenie lokatorowi umowy najmu, gdy ten nie wywiązuje się ze swoich obowiązków, tzn. nie płaci czynszu lub nieodpowiednio użytkuje lokal. Jeśli najemca zalega z czynszem krócej niż rok, wynajmujący ma prawo wziąć rzeczy najemcy pod zastaw.

blog-nieruchomosci.pl/2012/prawa-i-obowiazki-wynajmujacego/

- only after 1 year of not paying he can confiscate his things.

Art. 687. Jeżeli najemca lokalu dopuszcza się zwłoki z zapłatą czynszu co najmniej za dwa pełne okresy płatności, a wynajmujący zamierza najem wypowiedzieć bez zachowania terminów wypowiedzenia, powinien on uprzedzić najemcę na piśmie, udzielając mu dodatkowego terminu miesięcznego do zapłaty zaległego czynszu.

A jeśli był to najem objęty ustawą o ochronie -praw lokatorów (wyłączony jest z tej ustawy tylko najem okazjonalny), to musi być zaległość za 3 miesiące, upomnienie i dopiero rozwiązanie umowy;

forumprawne.org/prawo-nieruchomosci-lokalowe-budowlane/125221-wypowiedzenie-umowy-w-trybie-natychmiastowym-co-z-czynszem.html

So you landlord has no right to evict him just because he doesn't pay 1 month rent.

Yes she can change the locks, its her apartment she can do as she wishes it is simply an improvement for security. If he does not pay his rent she can also take all of his possesion's out of the apartment, he has absolutely no right to change the locks as he has given notice to vacate,if he wanted to be a real areh@le there are other ways.

And about entering apartment by landlord while tenant is not there

kancelaria-kurzeja.pl/Czy-wlasciciel-moze-wejsc-do-mieszkania-pod-nieobecnosc-lokatora.html

So it's allowed only in extreme situation and with Police. If he's just changing locks then it's obstruction not security upgrade.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
15 Oct 2013  #9
inwroclaw:" if I don't pay the last month's rent and instead insist my deposit be used.

Is the LL insisting you pay the last month's rent or insisting your deposit be used?

Why don't you pay?
poland_
15 Oct 2013  #10
My friend it states in most short term contracts in Poland that the tenant can not change the locks without the permission of the landlord.

As for entering the apartment the LL has the right to inspect at anytime whatsoever with adequate notice especially as inWro is moving out.

Removing someone possesion's from your property is not confiscating goods, I suggest you look up the meaning of confiscating, impounding or withholding.

Th LL has entered into a contract with inWro and inWro is the one breaching the contract not the LL, in this case inWro can not play the victim card as he is 100% at fault by not paying the last month rent. If he has proof the LL will not refund the deposit as she has a history of not returning deposits then he should bring it to her attention.

If inWro had been smart about this situation he would have told the LL he has lost his job and he is not longer in a financial situation to meet his obligations and the best he can do is partial payment + deposit for the last month.

Monitor, most LL just want an easy life and are prepared to make their tenants stay as comfortable as possible, from satisfied tenants you will get future personal introductions and good references. On the flip side there are some nightmare tenants who believe they own the place and demand the earth, this is the reason for using a lawyer and getting a tight contract.The LL does not have to waste her time with court she could just contact a baliff, before the tenant knows it his credit rating in Poland will be on poor standing and there goes his chances of getting a mortgage in the near future.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
15 Oct 2013  #11
And you completely ignored what i quoted. What do you base your statements on?
cms 9 | 1,287
15 Oct 2013  #12
Its very difficult legally for the landlord to evict, break in or change the locks. I know because I have been in the landlords position before.

Doesn't mean to say he won't do it though - some of these guys can be quite arrogant.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
15 Oct 2013  #13
Spoken to a legal person this morning on the phone, I presume a lawyer, and they don't know what the poster above is talking about when he says that the landlord can enter etc. The phrase used by the lawyer was "The landlord will be in all kinds of problems if he enters the flat without court permission."

So I am not sure what to make of this conflicting advice.

Monitor, thank you for posting all the links and summarising what it said. From what I heard this morning, the landlord has no right to come in at all unless they can somehow prove it's an emergency. As I am in dialogue with them, they have no basis to assume that.

SeanBM, the reason is very significant information has come to my notice which suggests my trust in the landlord was misplaced. I would have no confidence in a deposit return.

Its very difficult legally for the landlord to evict, break in or change the locks. I know because I have been in the landlords position before.

Doesn't mean to say he won't do it though - some of these guys can be quite arrogant.

That's also what the lawline also said, while emphasising it was not legal to do so, however.
poland_
15 Oct 2013  #14
Spoken to a legal person this morning on the phone, I presume a lawyer, and they don't know what the poster above is talking about when he says that the landlord can enter etc. The phrase used by the lawyer was "The landlord will be in all kinds of problems if he enters the flat without court permission."

You have spoken to a lawyer this morning on the phone.

Did you forward the lawyer a copy of your contract?
Did you inform the lawyer you are with-holding rent?

The landlord has the right to enter his/her property for inspection or to carry out repairs whenever they wish as long as due notice is given ( 48 hours). If it is a time when you are working they can be there themselves or appoint a power of attorney.

So I am not sure what to make of this conflicting advice.

There is no conflicting advice people can only give opinions, no one on this forum has read your contract with the LL so there is no basis for advice.

significant information has come to my notice which suggests my trust in the landlord was misplaced. I would have no confidence in a deposit return.

By law you have to pay your rent and use dialogue to solve your problems,you can't with-hold money/rent to solve dialogue, if it went to court you would lose the case on the basis of breach of contract.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
15 Oct 2013  #15
By law you have to pay your rent and use dialogue to solve your problems,you can't with-hold money/rent to solve dialogue, if it went to court you would lose the case on the basis of breach of contract.

But if he does, then eviction cannot occur just after 1 month.

The landlord has the right to enter his/her property for inspection or to carry out repairs whenever they wish as long as due notice is given ( 48 hours). If it is a time when you are working they can be there themselves or appoint a power of attorney.

show your source: wynajmowaniekrakow34.blox.pl/2011/08/Wynajmowanie-mieszkania-Krakow.html

Here they say that you're right about 24h notice, but it's for inspection or repair. Changing locks is not repair.

Copying and pasting more than 100 words is not allowed,so I have removed the article.
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
15 Oct 2013  #16
You have spoken to a lawyer this morning on the phone.

Lawyer/lawline said: withholding the last month's rent does not entitle the landlord to enter without court consent. Lawl. said all contracts they knew of were governed by the civil code and that the LL could not enter in the way one of the posters above described, period. Lawl. added not heard of any other sort of residential tenancy unless I meant a licence such as used in storage warehouses. I assume it was a lawyer, I am going to meet with another lawyer later today to check and show the contract.

So, it's all as clear as mud :D

Just checked the tenancy agreement, it says all official comms by registered letter. Nothing about email or carrier pigeon :o)
el_easy 2 | 54
16 Oct 2013  #17
Hmm yes but I don't want to pay the last month's rent

Funny!! you can pay for a lawyer, but you can't the last month of rent..British and American are troublemaker..hehehe..lol
OP InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
16 Oct 2013  #18
Well, you are so clever and funny that if you're not in Vegas you're wasting your life, but actually (if you can read English) I said that it was because I do not trust the landlord to return my deposit, due to new information that has come to light, not because I can't afford to pay it.

I didn't have to pay much for the lawyer anyway, because it was such a quick and easy bit of advice they only took 25zł and they also pointed out so many safeguards in the law that the landlord would definitely be breaking the civil code if they remove me or break in and take my things. Anyone who says otherwise would seem to be a joker and should join you in Vegas.

And yeah the lawyer did read the agreement and laughed at why I was concerned.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
16 Oct 2013  #19
You are breaking the contract InWroc, to date your LL has only threatened to do something about it.

Trust is the underlying idea of any contract.
You don't trust your LL because you think he won't return the deposit(I hope your source for this information is good).
And I suspect he does not trust you as you are not fulfilling the agreement, the idea of a deposit is to cover any cost of damages you may have done, not for the last month's rent unless you talk to him.

I strongly recommend meeting, discussing and coming to an amicable agreement as this air of suspicion and stress is not good for either of you.


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