Jobs and Economic Status in Poland

Exactly - Poland is doing rather well at the moment.

How long it will last, and what would happen if there was a regime change is a different matter, however at the moment things are good.

LOL ! Please quote 3 economists, who agree with that.

Could it be, that one sees the economy based on their own lives. I mean, if a person works in a collapsing building industry, and other in a booming texstyle industry, then one says life is great where the other that life's a struggle.

Happily: William Jackson, Agata Urbanska, and Piotr Kalisz and Cezary Chrapek (the last two writing as a team).

LOL ! Except that they don't.

You're still a liar Greggy.


That's an article from May. In July she had the following to say:


blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2013/07/01/cee-industry-green-shoots/#axzz2YinVHDdd
So, she now reckons things are on the up.

That's calling someone names, so you should be suspended by the mods! The real name is Harry, not Harold.


That's some proof of my opinion expressed in another thread that Harold uses words like "liar" in almost every thread. But then, it's something the PF is about!

Nope, it's the wrong time of day for people to get suspended for that kind of thing (and Greggy is the wrong kind of person for it anyway).


That's your opinion. The fact, however, is that this thread is about the state of the economy in Poland; perhaps you'd care to share with us your thoughts on that topic?

LOL as much as you like - and eat humble pie:


oecd.org/poland


qz.com/37935/whats-behind-the-polish-economic-miracle


ibtimes.com/east-european-miracle-how-did-poland-avoid-global-recession-795799

LOL ! That basically means after months of rapid decrease, industrial production is falling to even lower level only the dynamic of month on month drop is a bit slower, you clearly have no clue what is commented here, go start from googling what PMI is, besides you keep searching for articles regarding developments on the monthly basis with any slightest sign of positiveness and that is going to "prove" that "Poland is doing fine" ? Dude, what next, are you going to post forex comments on market changes since 9AM today to "prove" that country x is doing fine ? Even from you I didn't expect ridiculousness of that scale. Fundamentals is what matters here and Poland is a country with terrible demographic situation (one of the worst in the world) huge structural unemployment, one of least effective courts in the world, huge and growing administration, hardly any innovation, domestic market raped by foreign corporations and "export" based on nothing else than cheap labor, this country is dying out, literally, all the macro-economists when discussing long-term trends are terrified by this situation, Balcerowicz, Kołodko, Hausner, from left to right, from orthodox liberals to Keynes admirers.That's the reality, go eat some damn tortilla instead of copy pasting current comments on statistical indicators you have never even heard before.


Yes copy pasting boy, either you think it's "fun" to argue with people whose country is collapsing or are really a total imbecile.

Poland isn't collapsing, quite the reverse. As shown by the comments from the OECD, Ernst & Young and the aforementioned analysts.
Your personal financial position might well be in the toilet, but that's not due to the situation in Poland, is it? That's due to you and nothing other than you. Why not stop blaming expats, the government, the world economy, the secret Zionist conspiracy, everybody except yourself? Why not take responsibility for your failings and try to remedy them?

Even the articles you are coming up with clearly state that "the only economy to avoid recession" was due to massive public spendings and If you had any clue on the issue, you would know that it works pretty much the way like getting drunk, It's fun but after that comes the hangover, It's just started, stealing OFE money will move it forward 2-3 more years but it's just a slow agony of an alcoholic selling out all his possessions to buy another bottle. Real people (not those in name only) don't judge the world through their own situation alone.

That's right Greggy, real people read the views of various impartial sources and draw their own conclusions. That's why I reckon that the Polish economy is doing just fine. Other people talk down the national economy for their own political purposes: they lie in an attempt to gain power for themselves. And yet other people seek to blame their own financial misfortune and only being able to do a job they hate on the supposed failings of the national economy that those politicians lie about. It's a real pity that they can't see that they have the ability to better themselves.

The issue isn't what something "is due to" - it's what the state of the economy is now. The experts say that it's weathered the global recession rather well so far.

As some of us said all along.


Our country has never had it so good.

It's the OFE funds themselves that have been doing the stealing. When you consider how much debt the country runs up just to pay the OFE funds, it really makes no sense at all. Hungary (the poster child for PiS) did exactly that, too.


The difference is that Poland has a sensible constitutional limit on debt - so spending a bit wasn't a big deal if it meant avoiding the problems. Of course, what's funny is that you're criticising the Government for spending money, yet you in other posts think that the Government should be subsidising others. Make your mind up, eh?


It certainly is. Investors are coming back to Poland, and they're also encouraged by the fact that the Prime Minister and President don't have a habit of making the country look like idiots.

The best example that you guys simply have no clue what you are talking about.


Except that money is not going to be given back to the real owners, It will be stolen from 1 thief by another.


What you clearly don't understand is that the country would have already reach that limit without dirty tricks of Icek Rostowski, he's running out of them, so here goes the OFE takeover, after that probably a sell out of forests and so on. It is economic policy on a level of an alcoholic, who sell everything just to buy more of liquid, you know how that ends up.


Of course I don't.


LOL ! The country has run out of its competitive advantages before even getting to half of wealth of the west, If you think that it is the economy, which is doing fine, then you have serious issues.

I think you mean you disagree. The expert opinion (three were posted above at your request) does not support your ramblings.

Let me put it this way, you think that your neighbor is doing fine because he's bought a new car and you don't find it relevant that a fool spend his all savings to buy it when at the same time his income is shrinking rapidly. That's just terribly simplistic analysis.

And neither do any of the economic analysts or advisers who earn their living from saying what the Polish economy is doing, eh Greggy? Maybe you should write to their employers and offer to do their jobs properly for a quarter of the salary they earn, given that you know the Polish economy.

That's how it works. Not salting money away. Our country is not nor ever will be Switzerland.


Hard to describe the economic analyses quoted above as simplistic.


I wouldn't describe the OECD as that. Perhaps you feel you can do their economists' jobs better. Or maybe you'd like to be the manager of Man U because you once watched a football match.


He could save them some of the millions they pay for the world's best economists. Hey, a saving.

Lol.


That would depend on the depreciation of the currency, maybe he actually made money by buying the car.

No, it will go straight in the pockets of people that never contributed to their pension fund in a hard currency.

The OFE funds were an interesting experiment at the time, but the general move away from them in Europe tells you all you need to know - they don't work.

Anyone with half a brain in Poland can see that the real thieves were the generation that's now 40-60 years old and who benefited from some incredibly huge social subsidies at the time. It's an utter joke that there are people out there who were able to buy their flat for peanuts while taking early retirement from a profession that didn't really require it. I could introduce you to some teachers who did very well for themselves by simply playing the system to their advantage.

I don' get that Grzegorz guy. Is he a pole who has a ****** job and tries to blame that on the country?

I have over 20 Polish connections, friends of mine, who all live and work in Poland . All of them (literallly ALL of them) said that poland's economy is doing quite good.

I have been making phone calls with labour market experts , all of them confirmed the same.

I have been doing research based on statistics, and all that shows the same.

Yet, Grzegorz keeps on trying to convince other people that it is not.

delphiandomine

spot on! And these are the one that complain the most, blame every single problem they have on the government and vote for "you know whom"

If the people you are contacting believe you are a potential investor or they may benefit in some way, then of course they will talk up their market, if you met them as a friend or colleague they may not say the same about life in Poland. Poland was one of the only countries not to experience recession in the EU, there has been a deflation in the price of real estate and in the value of the zloty against the Euro and USD, people feel this is their pocket, personal debt is rising and the man in the street has less purchasing power, just today I was looking at holidays with my family, the same holiday for a family of 4 we paid 20,000 PLN, 3 years ago is now available today at 12,000 PLN, even though the value of the PLN is much weaker.

Margins are being squeezed, most residential real estate is Illiquid, so many people are asset rich and cash poor.

Poland is also seeing its first general strike in over 32 years in 2013, so not everyone is as happy as your friends, maybe they came from a country with less opportunity or they are still living at home with mum and dad.

Are you nuts ? I'm not saying that HSBC and others you quoted are wrong on anything, It's you who totally miss the context of what they are really talking about.


ZUS and other similar systems generally work the way that what we pay into it is immediately spent on retired people, there is no real money in it, our future pensions are what our children will have to pay into the system, unlike in OFE, which are very imperfect in current form, however a general idea of investing people's own real money to save for their future pensions is far better than ZUS crap and taking away real money from OFE and replacing it with a virtual future ZUS pensions is really no different than a country issuing more bonds, it's just a swindle to go around 60% GDP debt limit to keep "stimulating" the economy with public spendings, so politicians can say "hey, look there's no recession", that's pretty much what Greeks had been doing, everyone knows how that ended up.


Fascinating. You mean those guys, you had mentioned before, who make 3-3.5k a month ? Yeah, they are doing excellent then... almost...

It's a nice idea in theory. However, it completely ignored the reality of the situation - that the country had made some massive mistakes in the past with pensions and now was paying a huge price for them. To then hand some of the contributions over to private funds that took fees for the service was just asking for trouble, not to mention that there was never any real serious competition in the OFE market.


Nah. Greggy is posting this stuff because he supports the party in perpetual opposition in Poland. He's simply trying to do his part to spread their propaganda of doom, misery and gloom.


That's very very true in Poland. The amount of idiots who seem to have put themselves in a massive amount of debt just to show off their big house and big car is astounding to me in Poland - what's the point in owning such a thing if you have to work 14-16 hour days to pay for it?


I wouldn't place too much emphasis on that. If you read between the lines, the strike is because the Government has finally decided to start doing something about the privileges that they enjoy - Solidarity (as the world knows it) has been dead long enough to be able to finally put a stop to some of the excesses that they enjoy.

As for the general economic situation then is there a third option of medium but a few things to worry about. The argument here reminds me of 1980's Britian - it was either brilliant or terrible.

On the point re the OFE this is a naked dodge by Rostowski to get round the constituional caps on public debt. It follows similar moves about rates of translation of foreign currency debt and the year before that the extra dividends on KGHM (I'm an angry shareholder !), before that wasting valuable euro reserves to buy back zloty. Its July so he is probably cooking up his next scheme ready for rollout on December 30th.

The govt is doing reasonably well on the economy but I couldnt say they have done better than the PiS govt before them and if they dont address the deficit then a Hungarian situation could be waiting in a few years time.

That is the diametric opposite of how you come across.


Do you realise that the three reports quoted are not raw data? They are all presented to show the context and all ramifications clearly. These do not back up your layman's opinion that the Polish economy is doing badly.


Indeed.


There are too many people like that. What's the point of having bits of land you can't sell or a second home you've never got time to visit just so your children can be lazy when you're dead?

Deficit up +16 billion, regulations related to 50% GDP debt "suspended". LOL !!!!!!111