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File complaint against Poland's police


delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
13 Mar 2016 #31
Likewise. PO really, really screwed up by not doing it quickly and effectively. When you realise just how much the State still owns, it's a wonder that anyone actually gets anything done here.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Mar 2016 #32
need to be privatised

Yeah sure! Balcerowicz style! Meaning transferring Polish assets into foreign hands for a song. As it is, Poland has hardly any industrial assets left following decades of brigand-style privatisation.
Harry
13 Mar 2016 #33
transferring Polish assets into foreign hands for a song.

Personally I'd like to see all formerly state-owned property that was sold at other than the market price to foreigners re-nationalised. I wonder if it's too late to file a complaint with the prosecutor about known cases.
dolnoslask
13 Mar 2016 #34
No foreigners should be able to own Polish property full stop , It works in India.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,245
13 Mar 2016 #35
No foreigners should be able to own Polish property full stop

Tut tut Dolno. Poland would still be living in post-communist ruin in that case.

I would go further. People should be forced to repair their property, by way of grants, or enforced building work, instead of speculation. That will sort out the serious investor.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
13 Mar 2016 #36
@Dolno: so Poles should not own property in other countries too ;). I know several Poles owning flats and houses in London, in France or in Spain (just to talk from personal experience).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Mar 2016 #37
No foreigners should be able to own Polish property full stop

from someone born and brought up in the UK, that comment sounds seriously dumb.
were you raised in a council house or did your parents buy a place?
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #38
If the OK is happy selling to people from abroad that is fine, after all most prime properties in London are owned by foreigners as holiday homes or as investment.

I just feel (In my opinion) that it is not good to allow foreign ownership in Poland

Roz as to the council house comment, when my parents arrived in England there was no provision for council housing for foreigners, so of course we rented,

As for dumb you have every right to form your own opinion, the same as I do.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Mar 2016 #39
so of course we rented,

private renting OK. But later on they bought a place I bet.....
Now you are whining about how 'foreigners' shouldn't buy in Poland.
You do see how silly you sound don't you?
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #40
Roz The uk naturaliseed us In 1947 see below

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Resettlement_Act_1947

Roz We saved up and bought property in the UK as UK citizens and not as foreigners, do you see how silly you sound now.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
14 Mar 2016 #41
I just feel (In my opinion) that it is not good to allow foreign ownership in Poland

Bear in mind that many Poles bought properties in East Germany as you can buy a house there cheaper than in Poland, and Polish buyers are also starting to buy up property in Ukraine.
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #42
If Poles are buying legally elsewhere in Europe then that is fine, I just do not feel that this should be reciprocal, if that sounds unfair then so be it.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Mar 2016 #43
We saved up and bought property in the UK as UK citizens and not as foreigners

make your mind up then.
One minute your family were 'exiles' who lived in a rented house, then when it suits you, you reveal that in fact they were UK citizens who bought their own home....
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #44
Roz not a case of making ones mind up we were exiles until the UK naturalized us as Citizens, yes we started by renting. not sure why you are nit picking.

I am not suggesting anything new here , An Indian in the UK can own property in Both India and the UK, yet an Englishman is not allowed to buy in India
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Mar 2016 #45
not sure why you are nit picking.

because you trot out different versions of your story depending on what point you are attempting to make.

btw there are not only "Englishmen" in the UK. at least 50 per cent of people are women, and an awful lot of UK citizens are Welsh and Scottish and Irish.

Yes I might sound slightly pedantic but its better than sounding completely silly...:)
AdrianK9 6 | 369
14 Mar 2016 #46
Was the property not secured?

I can gladly send you pictures of this incident. And yes, I am in the process of doing that... I have not exagerrated anything in this story
AdrianK9 6 | 369
14 Mar 2016 #47
Since you don't believe me Delph - here are some of the documents from the lawyers and pictures... I have over 2 dozen I can share... I had to redact some of the names and addresses of my lawyer and myself...

Sygn. akt RSD 186/16 Wrocław, 29 lutego 2016 r.

adwokat Tomasz XXXXi

pełnomocnik z wyboru

pokrzywdzonej -------
Komisariat Policji

Wrocław - Psie Pole

we Wrocławiu

WNIOSEK DOWODOWY

Jako ustanowiony pełnomocnik z wyboru pokrzywdzonej, na podstawie art.

167 § 2 k.p.k. w zw. z art. 169 § 1 k.p.k. wnoszę o zwrócenie się do firmy XXXX

S.A., 02-119 Warszawa, ul. Pruszkowska XX o wskazanie jej podwykonawców,

którzy w okresie czwartego kwartału 2015 r. oraz stycznia i lutego 2016 r. zajmowali

się usługami transportowymi w rejonie ul. Pełczyńskiej we Wrocławiu, albowiem z

zeznań świadka Ivo XXX wynika, że prace na tamtym terenie wykonywała

właśnie wskazana firma, korzystająca z pomocy podwykonawców, co w

konsekwencji wymaga ustalenia tych podwykonawców i sprawdzenia, czy to nie oni

(co jest przecież prawdopodobne) dokonali zniszczenia ogrodzenia znajdującego się

na nieruchomości pokrzywdzonej położonej przy ul. Pełczyńskiej XX oraz samej tej

nieruchomości.

Łabuda Razowski Wojciechowski adwokacka spółka partnerska

also from the lawyer

adwokat Tomasz XXXXX

pełnomocnik z wyboru

pokrzywdzonej XXXXXX- KasperXXXX
Komisariat Policji

Wrocław - Psie Pole

we Wrocławiu

WNIOSEK DOWODOWY

Jako ustanowiony pełnomocnik z wyboru pokrzywdzonej, na podstawie art.

167 § 2 k.p.k. w zw. z art. 169 § 1 k.p.k. wnoszę o zwrócenie się do firmy Skanska

S.A., 02-119 Warszawa, ul. Pruszkowska XX o wskazanie jej podwykonawców,

którzy w okresie czwartego kwartału 2015 r. oraz stycznia i lutego 2016 r. zajmowali

się usługami transportowymi w rejonie ul. Pełczyńskiej we Wrocławiu, albowiem z

zeznań świadka Ivo XXXX wynika, że prace na tamtym terenie wykonywała

właśnie wskazana firma, korzystająca z pomocy podwykonawców, co w

konsekwencji wymaga ustalenia tych podwykonawców i sprawdzenia, czy to nie oni

(co jest przecież prawdopodobne) dokonali zniszczenia ogrodzenia znajdującego się

na nieruchomości pokrzywdzonej położonej przy ul. Pełczyńskiej XX oraz samej tej

nieruchomości.









AdrianK9 6 | 369
14 Mar 2016 #48
The worst one... Keep in mind this use to be a beautiful apple orchard with 100s of trees... a big 2 story home utterly destroyed and all the land with it too... that was going to be my retirement. Quite frankly, I don't care if you believe me or not Delph the fact of the matter is I'm not BSing. I did have a local person look out for this property but he took advantage of the situation - I was letting him live there for free in return for maintaining the place which of course he failed to do. I will never purchase a property in Poland again unless I'm living in it or can stop by and see it at least weekly.

Yes, I expected the police to at least charge the people for trespassing and damage of property. I mean the cops literally saw them creating this mess but all they did was take their IDs and write down their license plates. This has been a horror.



dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #49
Roz "Englishmen" ok i get your point i withdraw the use of Englishmen in this context, the world has moved on, And I realize that some terms maybe offensive today. no offence meant.
Atch 17 | 2,915
14 Mar 2016 #50
No foreigners should be able to own Polish property full stop

Why is that? Could you explain your reasons for feeling this way?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Mar 2016 #51
Actually I do see the point of it in this case - without such a rule the Germans could just come on over and buy up all that bit they lost after WW2. Are they doing that yet?

Maybe that was the point of the law in India as well - to stop Colonel Blimp coming over, buying up vast swathes of India and re-creating the finest days of the raj?
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #52
Atch, Looking at the situation in the UK/EU youngsters now have to wait until thir 30's before they can afford to buy property, house prices have been driven up by foreign Landlords and property investors.

Swathes of land is in foreign ownership they sit on it the sell to developers when the price is high, hence the house price in increased to feed the belly of the investor.

I don't want house prices in Poland (Currently low By European standards) to be forced up by outside speculation.

I see this on a small scale where I live, houses have been bought by people from abroad, they stand empty and they are falling into dis repair.

There are young families here who would like to buy them at a sensible price move in and look after them. (Some are historic 200 Year old timbered Pruskie mur)

There are Poles who have left Poland for the EU, they have no intention EVER of returning but still have properties either owned or inherited, they stand empty and are not helping the people of Poland, so these people have chosen to become foreigners and should not have the right to own, or at least they should be forced to rent these properties at a fair price.
TheOther 5 | 3,872
14 Mar 2016 #53
Why is that? Could you explain your reasons for feeling this way?

They are mostly worried about the Germans buying their old properties back.

See:

without such a rule the Germans could just come on over and buy up all that bit they lost after WW2

That the land would remain Polish no matter who buys it ... details ... ;)
Ironside 48 | 9,899
14 Mar 2016 #54
I don't want house prices in Poland (Currently low By European standards) to be forced up by outside speculation.

Well dolno, you must be a new arrival to Poland as this already had happened after Poland joined the EU. Right now real estate market is back to normal - almost, but at the time you could have made a killing if you surfed on the wave in the foreign spectators wake.

The next wave is only waiting around the corner for the land speulators to be given a free rein.
Obviously young people in Poland a prospective buyers were the one which stand to lose on this business. .

They are mostly worried about the Germans buying their old properties back.

Nah, in my understanding they are people buying properties - mostly land they couldn't afford in their own country. When it comes to Germans those are mostly looking for a place to live in their retirement years.

Some Dutch making the most of the agriculture lands, then some Jews and Israeli companies investing in the shopping malls in the Polish cities.
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #55
You are right Ironside I arrived way after Poland joining the EU, I am not interested in making a killing in Poland, I paid a fair price for what I have, I just want to rebuild what my family lost in Poland we will build invest and enjoy it while we can, I have a nephew In the UK who is interested in carrying on here, but he needs to go to agricultural college and learn polish before I sign it all over, If he fails we will leave it all to a Polish charity.
AdrianK9 6 | 369
14 Mar 2016 #56
Don't buy property in Poland unless you yourself look after it regularly or have someone you can really really trust look after it. You can't just assume that the police will make sure no one breaks in and steals stuff. You could bribe a cop or two and pay them some money to drive around it or install cameras. Still though, leaving a property alone and unguarded in Poland is like leaving your car parked in a really bad neighborhood.
porky pok 2 | 127
14 Mar 2016 #57
Adrian man that happens even in usa dont you think?Property in all world is like a baby, gotta nurture it.Property in Poland is still safer with low taxes and cheap maintainence.

I know you have a bad experience but man you didnt deal it right.

Yes, I expected the police to at least charge the people for trespassing and damage of property.

NO man even the cops in usa wont give a flying fug of an abondened property except to catch some junkies to fill there arrest quotas.You are lucky atleast they have records of Ids and number plates for the people to sue from cops record.

It will be a long and tiring process but if you are willing and to spend some moola on it.
dolnoslask
14 Mar 2016 #58
Sadly you are right Adrian, It looks like a bunch of gypo's have wasted the place, this also happens in the uk, only suggestion Is sell and let someone move in and sort it.
porky pok 2 | 127
14 Mar 2016 #59
Dolno you are right but who will buy and for what price?he said it was worth a mil bucks,and honestly I would try to squeeze him down for 100/150k bucks as is,but he will not sell( I dont blame him).His only bet will be to wait for years and if any desperate soul or an developer comes along or it will deteriorite but still could get same price anyway.So depending on his situation will be better to wait and gamble until he needs funds.
AdrianK9 6 | 369
14 Mar 2016 #60
This place was in good shape, at least on the inside until this year. I let a person live there for free in exchange for maintaining it. I didn't expect a family 'friend' to rip out the fixtures and everything. Aside from hiring a full time property manager or a security guard I don't know what else I could've done - and even then it's not guaranteed that they'd even look out after the place while I'm gone.

I've already spent around $10k USD with this - counting the wages I lost while there the figure is much higher.

You are lucky atleast they have records of Ids and number plates for the people to sue from cops record.

The issue is though I wouldn't sue the dump truck driver as he has little to no money and it's not he that decided to go there, it was his boss who told him to. We know this from interviews with the drivers. I just don't understand why the police wouldn't stop people from continuing to dump. Like they knew what the company was doing is illegall and that they are dumping on private land yet they continued to do it. They only stopped once I physically got there and start photographing the 'boss' (judging by his brand new BMW and suit and tie attire).

Once this is over, I'm putting in land mines, electrical barbed wire fences, and rabies ridden German shepherds. Ideally, I'd like them to just get the land back to the way it was. The house is old and needs a lot of remodeling or to be torn down completely. The land is zoned as agricultural because of the apple orchard that use to be there. I don't know how likely it is that they company will fix the land they destroyed which to me is actually preferable than giving me money equal to the damages. I'm not an expert, but I'd imagine fixing that land up, clearing all the rubble that the company dumped, and replanting the grass and tress would probably cost close to $1mil. Although the monetary value of this property is high, or at least use to be prior to the destruction (was appraised for 3.8 mln zloty like 2 years ago) its more of a sentimental value to me and I wanted to return to the same neighborhood I was born in and grew up (Zlotniki - not too far from Psie Pole where this house is).

I may add that we sold the Zlotniki (Wroclaw) property a bit too soon because we fell on hard times. If we would've waited just 6-12 months more we would've got around $350k-$400k USD. We got around $80k USD. This was around the time of the recession like 2008-2009ish. It was in nice shape though - little outdated kitchen and bathrooms but very cozy and well maintained.


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