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IT department (computer programming) - Opening up an Office/Business in Poland


OP t0bias 1 | 5
17 Jan 2012 #31
krakowit.pbworks.com/w/page/5507981/FrontPage

it seems like krakow is pretty big in startups etc.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
26 Jan 2012 #32
Any news on this investment :))) ?
rygarr
26 Jan 2012 #33
sorry for posting as guest, i dont have password on this PC

delphiandomine pushes really hard for Poznan, which is really susipicious considering his 'dream job' he has ;pp

anyway - for IT / software outsorcing, you basically have 3 destinations in PL considering your demands: Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow. And thats it!

I am graphic/interface designer, have worked with many companies with similar profiles both as freelancer or emplyee, so I know what I am talking about. All three cities are both interesting places to live and have wast resources when it comes to IT, but as it has been said - you will have to pay premium in warsaw while getting similar quality as elsewhere. Cost of maintaining business is Warsaw is also considerably higher. Myself, I am based in Wroclaw, but can tell that Krakow is equally interesting (and AGH is VERY good univ.). Wroclaw's University of Technology is not ranked that high like universities in Warsaw or Krakow, yet for some reasons big names often choose this location as their first in Poland. This atracted many young people here. Noone thinks about Poznan when asked about IT centres.

Wroclaw also has very good access to backbone networks, as well as its own 'inner' fiber backbone built by city. Connection to western (german) networks are in Wroclaw and Poznan (but keep in mind, that there is no international traffic exchange center in PL, nearest is in Prague, whis is closer to Wroclaw)

you'll have no problem with finding specialist for python/jquery etc, they are plenty

ahm there is another location that could be interesting for you - Katowice or its close neighbour cities. Thats industrial part of Poland, do not expect pretty views, but thare is quite a lot happening when it comes to technology, densely populated etc
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
28 Jan 2012 #34
delphiandomine pushes really hard for Poznan

He made up the whole thing. Dude has been talking to himself using two accounts.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,722
28 Jan 2012 #35
delphiandomine pushes really hard for Poznan, which is really susipicious considering his 'dream job' he has ;pp

Or could it be because it's a good location in general?

anyway - for IT / software outsorcing, you basically have 3 destinations in PL considering your demands: Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow. And thats it!

Wrong. Like your historical knowledge, you seem to be lacking in knowledge about Poland - otherwise you'd know that Poznan is as hot as Krakow.

Wroclaw's University of Technology is not ranked that high like universities in Warsaw or Krakow, yet for some reasons big names often choose this location as their first in Poland. This atracted many young people here. Noone thinks about Poznan when asked about IT centres.

And yet there are many, many IT centres in Poznan - especially international businesses. And don't forget that the biggest Polish name in the market is based here.

Wroclaw also has very good access to backbone networks

Likewise in Poznan. In fact, even more so - because the backbone lies along the Berlin-Warsaw axis.

ahm there is another location that could be interesting for you - Katowice or its close neighbour cities. Thats industrial part of Poland, do not expect pretty views, but thare is quite a lot happening when it comes to technology, densely populated etc

Anyone recommending Katowice for anything other than ritual suicide deserves scorn.

He made up the whole thing. Dude has been talking to himself using two accounts.

Yeah yeah yeah. Says the person who claims Gdansk to be a "Great place for business".
KLZ
28 Jan 2012 #36
I dont have an account here, just found this interesting thread viewing the forum.

I see each city is trying to promote itself :) I was involved in an IT investment in Poland few months back and few things I wanted to comment on, based on my observations.

The reality is that there are 2 IT hubs worth considering - Krakow and Wroclaw. On purpose I'm not taking into account Warsaw due to cost.

When you compare the two:
- similar costs of running business (salaries, rents etc)
- bigger IT talent pool and better univs in Krakow
- ability to attract workers - Krakow (east, south of Poland + Slovakia, Czech, Ukraine etc)
- better access (road) Wroclaw
- better access (plane) Krakow
- strong competition of multinationals in both cities
- better PR, promotion - Wrocalaw
- much stronger startup scene - Krakow
- city support - Wroclaw
- good & interesting place to live - Krakow (heritage, mountains, resorts, culture, museums, sport etc)
- nightlife - Krakow, no doubt

Our choice was Krakow. I'm not saying Wroclaw is bad or anything, it's also a good place to be. But it was Krakow who matched our needs better.

Good luck in the selection process.
rygar - | 40
28 Jan 2012 #37
thats more or less what I said

yet I would arue with 2 points - access by planes in Wroclaw will probably improve considerably due to new airport terminal that is currently being finished (opening before Euro Championships) and also Ryanair setting its center here. And nightlife (might be completely irrelevant) - I find it more interesting in wroclaw, that is just mater of taste (and probably age ;D ). All in all - both cities seem more or less equally attractive.

When money is good people will simply move. In poland it is not common to disclose wages in adverts, you may try to do so - that will certainly draw attention from people from other cities.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,722
29 Jan 2012 #38
All in all - both cities seem more or less equally attractive.

The new terminal won't change much - the existing one already has plenty of capacity. But it will give Wroclaw a better airport for travellers at least.

Ryanair opening a base means nothing - they've got a habit of opening and closing them constantly. Wroclaw is clearly giving airlines a great deal now - but what if they stop? Ryanair are infamous for closing down bases for trivial rises in fees.

Krakow is dreadfully located though.
rygar - | 40
29 Jan 2012 #39
I not so sure, as new terminal will probably allow servicing bigger planes - it also has 'sleeves' - finally. Ryanair.. yeah, people are saying that they often close centres, yet they will surely try opening new connections to see it how works. We'll see.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
29 Jan 2012 #40
Anyone recommending Katowice for anything other than ritual suicide deserves scorn.

Nonsense.

Yeah yeah yeah. Says the person who claims Gdansk to be a "Great place for business".

It IS great place for business :)

Wrong. Like your historical knowledge, you seem to be lacking in knowledge about Poland

Says a Scotish English teacher, who's been living in Poland since 3 years and can't put together more than few words in Polish. Hilarious :))
RoughFlavors 1 | 100
29 Jan 2012 #41
Anyone recommending Katowice for anything other than ritual suicide deserves scorn.

typical nonsense you'd expect from D

I would say the location is less of an issue, given that computer programming is something you can easily do telecommuting. This way you can concentrate on hiring people with the best qualifications, rather than worrying about where they live. You may not even need an office and just set up a virtual organization, with people collaborating online. It saves a lot of overhead, significantly expands your labor market, and may lower your compensation expenses. Poland is a small country, one time zone, you can drive from one end to the next within a day, why create artificial limitations? It's the 21st century after all.

to be perfectly honest, though, PF is a very poor choice for sourcing market research. you can't be serious about opening a business if that's where you're looking for information.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,722
29 Jan 2012 #42
Nonsense.

Sure, I suppose it would also be good for testing nuclear bombs. Katowice is a horrible, grim place - and you're not going to attract talented people there unless you offer them high, high salaries. I know at least three people who have refused (better) jobs there because - it's Katowice.

I would say the location is less of an issue, given that computer programming is something you can easily do telecommuting.

Telecommuting isn't always desirable for programming. If it was, then he would have already identified that as being an option.

typical nonsense you'd expect from D

I don't see people queuing up to live in Katowice, do you? It simply isn't attractive for people who can work in Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan or Warsaw instead. Why the hell would anyone with fairly desirable skills willingly want to work in Katowice, unless the money was incredibly attractive? The place is a depressing dump.

(speaking of which - I know one rather big IT company that's about to close their Katowice branch and move entirely to Poznan - why? Because they can't get the best to work in Katowice).

Poland is a small country, one time zone, you can drive from one end to the next within a day, why create artificial limitations? It's the 21st century after all.

There are also many drawbacks - it's much harder to create team spirit through telecommuting, IT guys often have all sorts of added perks at work (one example - the geeks demanded a ping-pong table and got it) - on the whole, it depends very much on specifics. You also don't necessarily want to hire younger people to work at home as they might not be disciplined enough outside of an office environment.

If it was so great, then companies would have thoroughly embraced it. But - not everyone has the talent for telecommuting.

to be perfectly honest, though, PF is a very poor choice for sourcing market research. you can't be serious about opening a business if that's where you're looking for information.

Well yes, especially when you're relying on the knowledge of people who live in America and have no idea about what's going on in Poland.

Says a Scotish English teacher, who's been living in Poland since 3 years and can't put together more than few words in Polish. Hilarious :))

Ahaha. And you are, exactly? Oh wait..you're village dwelling PiS voting Polonia.
RoughFlavors 1 | 100
29 Jan 2012 #43
companies would have thoroughly embraced it

it's mainstream, D. i know, culture shock...

ping-pong table? that's SO 10 years ago... wake up.

people who live in America

and back to America/Polonia again, blah blah blah blah
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
29 Jan 2012 #44
Ahaha.

You are simply humiliating yourself... Your attempt to make yourself look like an expert on IT investment in Poland is simply a joke. People noticed the whole topic is fake after several posts. Go teach some English.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,722
29 Jan 2012 #45
it's mainstream, D. i know, culture shock...

Mainstream? Yeah, suuure. So mainstream that you know, companies are just falling over themselves to hire Polish teleworkers! I mean, it's so mainstream that some of the biggest names here are just...er...spending a fortune on accommodating them.

Sorry, but telecommuting simply isn't "mainstream' at all in Europe.

ping-pong table? that's SO 10 years ago... wake up.

Does it matter if it is or not? They wanted one and got one - you can't play ping-pong at home, can you?

Then again, I guess it fits in with your general, typical scorn for Poles. I've noticed that most of the posts you make are looking down at people here - insecurity, perhaps?

and back to America/Polonia again, blah blah blah blah

And back to the point that the Polonia and Poles who move there seem to all be from the same stock - village dwelling, arrogant and for totally unfounded reasons.

You are simply humiliating yourself... Your attempt to make yourself look like an expert on IT investment in Poland is simply a joke. People noticed the whole topic is fake after several posts. Go teach some English.

Are you still ranting on about this? Then again, I suppose you have little else to do in America. Poland didn't listen to your battle cry, so now - all you can do with yourself is rant on PF instead. Anyway, the only humiliation here was how you comically changed your tune after PiS lost. Terribly good fun.
eastwest
29 Jan 2012 #46
He made up the whole thing. Dude has been talking to himself using two accounts.

delphiandomine

I agree,,, delphiandomine is a fraudster, he has set himself to feather his own nest ie in the language schools, he is out there to make money and cares about nobody...how to make money at the expense of the pole is what he is about, he admits being Jewish.

It would help the flow of messages, if you kept to one username wouldn't it, wielki pan
delphiandomine 83 | 17,722
29 Jan 2012 #47
Ouch.

Must admit - I approve of such 'naming and shaming'.

I agree,,, delphiandomine is a fraudster, he has set himself to feather his own nest ie in the language schools, he is out there to make money and cares about nobody...how to make money at the expense of the pole is what he is about, he admits being Jewish.

Fraudster? Dangerous accusation to make - Australia doesn't have much of a sense of humour when it comes to this sort of thing.

Feather my own nest? I don't work for language schools, sorry :) As for making money - who isn't interested in making money?

Caring about nobody? Sorry, but when did you last do anything for Poland?

Making money at the expense of the Pole? Well, yes, they're the ones who pay my wages. I suppose Poles in the UK are just making money at the expense of the Brits, too?

As for "being Jewish" - what the **** does that matter?
Wroclaw Boy
29 Jan 2012 #48
It would help the flow of messages, if you kept to one username wouldn't it, wielki pan

double ouch

I dont understand why he couldnt just say it as himself.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 441
29 Jan 2012 #49
I not so sure, as new terminal will probably allow servicing bigger planes

Which bigger planes? Wrocław can already take 747s (and therefore, one would assume, capable of handling A330s). Although there is significant East Asian business in the area, I think the city is a still a very long way from being a destination for A380s.

Are you still ranting on about this? Then again, I suppose you have little else to do in America.

I'm sure that promoting a "Committee for the Insulting of Polish-Americans" (CIPA) would get us banned, but it's kind of overdue :)

he is out there to make money and cares about nobody...how to make money at the expense of the pole is what he is about, he admits being Jewish.

One day these cowardly guest posters will think of more original insults, rather than turning everything into an anti-Jewish rant.
rygar - | 40
29 Jan 2012 #50
Which bigger planes? Wrocław can already take 747s

and then those people would have to go to terminal on foot or by bus - in case of 747 it would 3 or 4 buses I guess.. that would be really lame,

But youre right that at this moment there is still not enough demand for that.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
29 Jan 2012 #51
But youre right that at this moment there is still not enough demand for that.

i don't know if there ever will be. when berlin's airport revamp is completed this year wroclaw might increase connecting flights and not much else.
Jimmu 2 | 157
31 Jan 2012 #52
where are other big IT offices (microsoft, etc.) or where are the best technical universities.

Silicon Valley. Which is not SF, by the way. More like San Jose.
Tartar 1 | 22
16 Sep 2015 #53
Interesting thread... so which location did you pick in the end?


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