The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Law  % width posts: 84

How deep is the Gloom in the Poland's Economy


Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Sep 2011 #61
Apartments are obviously a different scale to what we are talking about (a simple house),

The only rerason I mentioned "a house" was the fact it was obvious you have never built commercially. I am not making bold claims, the type of construction and the price of the land have a huge influence on the cost per m2 as does the access and location.You see a finished building and you try to equate the price by judging it against others. The developer may have a lot more costs than he expects, even before he starts on site.

I wrote this 18 months ago and it still applies:

So when you read what Mark Biernat (Polsky, etc, etc, etc or whatever name he decides to use on the day) posts on these property threads, you know he is talking out of his ass.

"That's again big time BS. We examplined all costs into building,
and total cost NEVER surpassed 1000 PLN/sq.m. built".

I would want that just for the paperwork.

Its the "hidden" extras that you cannot allow for, even with a contingency sum.

So you worked in IT, that explains a lot.
AngelNC 2 | 85
24 Sep 2011 #62
[quote=Polsyr Poland's economy is doing better than most nations.[/quote]

Instead to answer to your post myself, I'm gonna post enkidu's statement which pretty much sums it all up pretty realistically and honestly in my eyes.

Enkidu said:
"I wouldn't be so happy. Poland is doing well during world crisis simply because our economy is backward and outdated.
We are not really connected to the world's financial markets. The "service based" economy is still in it's early stages.
Polish economy base on exploitation of natural resources, production sector etc.
And don't forget this even now in the crisis - the GDP (nominal) per capita place Poland on the 47th place.
By comparison - The UK is on the 22 place.
In simple words - life is better in the UK during the crisis than in Poland in the times of hossa.
Sad but true."

OP wielki pan 2 | 250
25 Sep 2011 #63
On 13 apartments, the man that issues the "energy certificate" ( or HIPS as its known in the UK) wanted £200.00. per apartment but managed to talk him down to £900.00. as a job lot.

sounds like doom and gloom when building in Poland, however if you divide the costs into 13 its not that bad? the fact remains people never lay foundations in the winter, its done in summer, leave for 1 years to allow the earth to settle and think about buildling in the 2/3 yr.. I know getting permission to build is a nightmare, if one neighbour objects it can really put a spanner in the works, I'm going through a paper warfare with my miasto, its 13months and still counting, I predict it will take me 4 years to complete my project. The easy way is to bribe people, but I'm not prepared to do so. Don't doubt what you are saying, but I sense things are getting better and this sick communist mentality is disappearing, or maybe not!
Avalon 4 | 1,068
25 Sep 2011 #64
I know getting permission to build is a nightmare

Actually, the architect was instructed in the November and all buildng permissions were obtained to allow us to start at the beginning of the following April.

The problems occured over the next year with having to get an electricity pole moved to keep the wires 6 mtrs from the building. According to the electricity company we had to pay for a new concrete pole either side of the one to be moved. This involved getting the written permission of everyone whose land the wires passed over. Tracking down the owners and getting the paperwork signed was a nightmare. The cost was around 30,000 PLN.

On a similar project in the UK, I had to get a lampost moved from one side off the street to the other. It was done within two weeks of asking permission and the cost was the equvilant of 4,500 PLN.

There is no stormwater system in the area I built, all the houses run the rainwater pipes under their front gardens and into a ditch. Common sense was for me to do the same. Not according to the local council. I had to get an envoiromental report at a cost of 2000 PLN to show that the rain that fell on the neighbouring fields was exactly the same as the rainwater I piped into the ditch, decision time, three months. Other people have built new houses since and none have been asked to supply this certificate.

Nobody at any stage of the project, warns you that these things are required, you just have to find out as you proceed. There is always, always one more stamp you need and a repeat viewing of the original document after its been filed away or its at the notaries office.

Like you, I do not believe in bribing people.

but I sense things are getting better and this sick communist mentality is disappearing,

I hope so as well but I would not hold my breath waiting.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
26 Sep 2011 #65
And don't forget this even now in the crisis - the GDP (nominal) per capita place Poland on the 47th place.
By comparison - The UK is on the 22 place.
In simple words - life is better in the UK during the crisis than in Poland in the times of hossa.

Given that a recent survey place Poland as the country with the happiest people I don't beleive world GDP per capita ranking have any relevance on the quality of life. The UK is often placed low becuase its a very expensive place to live and in the SE it is very crowded. Having a falling GDP and personal spending power is far worse that the both rising, as it is in Poland.

Other people have built new houses since and none have been asked to supply this certificate.
Nobody at any stage of the project, warns you that these things are required, you just have to find out as you proceed.

. I for one are more interested in building on agro/building land not commercial flat building. Even the figures you quote for hassles don't make a dent on the overall cost (which you haven,'t given). But your 6k/m2 figure is higher than other builders are selling for, including land, and higher than the sales price for all sorts of completed property.

So you worked in IT, that explains a lot.

Leave out the Ad Hominem
AngelNC 2 | 85
26 Sep 2011 #66
Given that a recent survey place Poland as the country with the happiest people

Not one Pole I know (and I know quite a few), would confirm that statement. In fact, most Poles are still pretty unhappy with their lives in Poland. If not, why do you think so many Poles emigrate?
TheOther 5 | 3,711
26 Sep 2011 #67
As long as the country doesn't produce more goods that are competitive on the world market, the so-called economic success is just a big fat (political) lie, and sooner or later there will be a rude awakening, I'm afraid. Some people here deny it, but without the EU cash there would be no gloom.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
26 Sep 2011 #68
Not one Pole I know (and I know quite a few), would confirm that statement.

Well I guess you must hang about with so miserable people

en.poland.gov.pl/Poles,the,happiest,in,Europe,Events,7072x1288.html

The Poles I speak too are all happy about being here and none of them wanted to stay in the UK.
AngelNC 2 | 85
26 Sep 2011 #69
Hm, miserable people but they reflect the opinions of millions of other Poles too. Quit posting links, talk with the real Poles instead.
Just like The Other said "As long as the country doesn't produce more goods that are competitive on the world market, the so-called economic success is just a big fat (political) lie".
Avalon 4 | 1,068
26 Sep 2011 #70
But your 6k/m2 figure is higher than other builders are selling for

Would you like to give some examples?

This is what I actually said,

If it costs 4-5-6000 PLN m2 to build,

I also qualified it by stating that it depended on the materials you used.

Stick to the IT, you may know something about that.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
26 Sep 2011 #71
I see you have not provided any evidence whatsoever to backup your figures.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
27 Sep 2011 #72
I will refer you to WB's post #5, 3rd Jan. How much does it cost to build per m2 in Poland.
"Price wise you get what you pay for, i listed 2500 - 3000 as average, if you want marble flooring though out or laminate, sheet metal roof panels or traditional clay tiles, pretty endless really."

I agree with this. Teflcat had a cost of 2,000PLN m2 by doing it himself over a period of 6 years. Most people are not prepared to do this.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
27 Sep 2011 #73
So we are in agreement. Some how I thought you were talking about a figure of 6k.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
27 Sep 2011 #74
I said 4-5-6000PLN m2 depending on materials used. What is so difficult to understand? If you DIY then is obviously going to be cheaper. Do you expect a builder/developer to do it for cost? You are as bad as Milky!!!!
Havok 10 | 912
27 Sep 2011 #75
LMAO that's funny. Last time I visited this forum was about half a year ago, but the song hasn't changed a bit.

OP is trying to ask you a simple question, people.

How do you think the decaying economy of the richest countries of EU is going to directly affect the development of Poland in the upcoming years? It's neither a tricky question nor an attack. He’s not trying to discredit Poland's recent progress in anyway... again, you guys take this waaaaaaay too personal.

OP, I’ll answer your question in a short and concise manner. :) Most likely things are going to get shittier and shittier for the poor and middle class but I hope not as sh1tty as in PRL times. Poland! Brace for impact. The EU loans are about to run out.

GOOOEUUUuuuu...! <poof> gone.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
27 Sep 2011 #76
The EU loans are about to run out.

On the contrary - there's plenty of cash budgeted for the next period. Around 70-80 billion Euro, in fact. And these are grants, not loans.
OP wielki pan 2 | 250
27 Sep 2011 #77
Not doubting Mr D, but its strange that the EU is having trouble keeping some EU countries afloat and it has this sort of money to give free of chargeto Poland etc.. somehow me thinks something will have to give! Who is providing the money or is it being loaned by China?
Havok 10 | 912
27 Sep 2011 #78
On the contrary - there's plenty of cash budgeted for the next period. Around 70-80 billion Euro, in fact. And these are grants, not loans.

Right, and they will give all that grant money away while their people are starving and revolting back home. See, you guys are always going to be two notches below the normal standard of living with your backwards thinking. Also this is exactly why there is no point in having discussions like this one with you all.

yes! there is a very clear possibility that things may get worse in Poland because of the economic downturn, it's clear. Get to work and better start figuring out how you gonna deal with it. No! Sh1t havok! that's just crazy talk, give me a source or a link.

Well I can’t, cos there is no link on the net that can teach you common sense bud . It ain't gonna happen Dope.
OP wielki pan 2 | 250
28 Sep 2011 #79
See, you guys are always going to be two notches below the normal standard of living with your backwards thinking. Also this is exactly why there is no point in having discussions like this one with you all.

Have to use your communication skills to get these people back on track. I don't think the EU has a bucket load of funds to give away, notwithstanding the crisis facing some of the EU countries. When Poland slips into recession these people like Mr D will still be in denial., I hope not.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
28 Sep 2011 #80
So you are saying 2.5-6k depending on finish and materials. 2k if you DIY.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
28 Sep 2011 #81
No, I am saying that it should be around 4 to 6,000PLN if you get a builder in to do it. This should include internal walls, plastering, 2 coat emulsion to walls, stairs, external paths, driveway, fencing, front boundry wall, gate access and connection to media. Depending on what materials are used and would include a builders profit. It would exclude, internal doors, flooring, tiling, sanitry ware, kitchen unit and worktops. When estimating, you cannot expect the builder to know if the client wants a 5,000 or a 20,000PLN kitchen and usually, the client nearly always changes their mind when the finishes are to be installed.
milky 13 | 1,657
28 Sep 2011 #82
Do you expect a builder/developer to do it for cost? You are as bad as Milky!!!!

Did I say that??
Avalon 4 | 1,068
28 Sep 2011 #83
The figures you have quoted over the past 3 years would be even less than cost. Have you wondered why nobody takes your posts seriously?
milky 13 | 1,657
28 Sep 2011 #84
Did I make a quote on the cost of building??

Have you wondered why nobody takes your posts seriously?

Stop making personal attacks, you are a sad man . Plenty of people disagree with you as well.


Home / Law / How deep is the Gloom in the Poland's Economy
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.