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Poland's Citizenship Requirements - Is a permanent resident card necessary ?


MarkC 6 | 20
10 May 2017 #1
Hello all,

I intend on applying for my Polish citizenship, based on my marriage and length of stay here in Poland.

This is something I've been looking into for some time so I would say I was rather familiar with the procedure and what is required. However, I think I may have inadvertently overlooked one point. This is the permanent residence card.

At the moment, I have my registration of residence (Zaświadczenie o Zarejestrowaniu Pobytu Obywatela Unii Europejskiej), and as I originally understood it I would be able to apply for citizenship with this. However, after looking over the requirements I can see that a certified copy of a permanent resident card issued by a voivode is required. I think I'm a little confused because the method of recognition as a citizen I am choosing is the point I mentioned above (a foreigner residing continuously in Poland (what is an uninterrupted stay?->) for at least 2 years on the basis of a permanent residence permit -> or a long-term EU resident permit -> and who has been married to a Polish citizen for at least three years or holds no citizenship). The way this is worded seems to me is that the permanent residence card is not necessary as I hold my EU registration of residence.

To give you a little background, I have lived in Poland for almost 5 years (it will be 5 years in December) although, my card/crappy piece of paper is registered from March 2013, expiring March 2018. I have been married for over 5 years. All other requirements, I have (apart from the Polish language certificate, as I will be taking the test next month).

Perhaps somebody could help clear this up for me? Or, maybe somebody has been in a similar situation.

Thank you in advance.

Mark
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 May 2017 #2
Perhaps somebody could help clear this up for me?

Sure.

You need to first acquire permanent residency. The process is similar to when you obtained the "Zaświadczenie o Zarejestrowaniu Pobytu Obywatela Unii Europejskiej", except you need to also provide 5 years of continuous work history (with evidence - contracts/history of self employment/etc), a certificate from the Urząd Skarbowy confirming that you don't owe them money, and a valid criminal check. I also had to submit a personal biography.

Once you get that, it's two years (based on marriage) before you can apply for naturalisation as a Polish citizen.
OP MarkC 6 | 20
10 May 2017 #3
@delphiandomine

Thank you.

I actually spoke with someone late this afternoon who confirmed the 5 year period. Although, they didn't mention any of the necessary requirements as did you. They simply mentioned that at the end of my first 5 year period here. In the meantime, I'll find out about the specifics.

You know, it's funny actually because my friend was talking to me about this about 2 years ago or so, and it's now all coming back to me in pieces. I just happened to completely forget about it as time went by. But, the time 5 year period is approaching now so naturally, that's why I decided to look into it once again.

Thank you once again for your help.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 May 2017 #4
The requirements do seem to vary from office to office, so it's worth asking them specifically what they want, even if it's not written online.

BTW - one bad piece of news. You'll get a plastic card, which is more than enough to identify yourself with to the government, but it's no use for travelling with. Unfortunately. :(
OP MarkC 6 | 20
10 May 2017 #5
@delphiandomine

Do I really have to have been working continuously for the 5 years? This could be a problem.

When I came to Poland, for the first couple of years I was renovating our home and taking care of our son. After this, I took up employment in Poland and eventually started my own business which is where I am today.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 May 2017 #6
Do I really have to have been working continuously for the 5 years? This could be a problem.

It's all down to the office, I'm afraid. I applied on pretty much the same basis as you, and they were clear that I had to provide full evidence of what I was doing in Poland from the beginning of the 5 years. Someone else might see it differently, though, especially if you were married the entire time.
OP MarkC 6 | 20
10 May 2017 #7
You'll get a plastic card, which is more than enough to identify yourself with to the government

As for the plastic card, my current passport or driving license seems to suffice whenever I need to identify myself. Nobody asks any questions.

Someone else might see it differently, though, especially if you were married the entire time.

I will simply have to enquire. My friend will be able to inform me as he has already completed this process. But, yes, I was married the whole time and event prior to this period in Poland so it may count for something.

In all honesty whenever I do need something from the local Urząd they normally don't cause too much of a fuss. That normally boils down to the fact that they themselves aren't entirely all sure about the process, or they never used to be. Although, Poland is progressing now and they are more on the ball about these things so who knows! Thank you anyway.

It's not an urgent necessity to have citizenship. I would, however, like to complete the permanent residence procedure prior to Brexit and hopefully prevent opening a can of worms.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
11 May 2017 #8
If you are married to a Polish citizen and wish to get a Polish passport you do have to prove two years residency and 3 years of marriage.

There is no need for you ta pass a B1 Polish exam, nor is there a need for you to provide proof of income or health insurance. simple really.

Any problems talk to the people below.
DominicB - | 2,709
11 May 2017 #9
If you are married to a Polish citizen

This is precisely what baffles me about a lot of the posters here. They are supposedly married to Polish citizens, and rather than having their spouses simply go to the relevant offices to get first-hand reliable information straight from the horse's mouth, they ask their questions on some anonymous internet forum.

I can't imagine why anyone in a genuine marriage would do that.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
11 May 2017 #10
I can't imagine why anyone in a genuine marriage would do that.

You hit the nail on the head, the Polish citizen partner would know exactly what the proceedure is, if not it would only take five minutes to find out.

Leaves me to the following conclusions when I see people trying ask or answer quetions in relation to to spouse citizenship

1. Non Polish Members here who claim they are married and give silly advice are not actualy married.

2. Many guest posters who claim to have a Polish partner are telling porky pies and just fishing for a way into the EU.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
11 May 2017 #12
Yeah that was all very strange, but we are here on the forum to help the genuine cases, you seem to be good at weeding out the duffers.
DominicB - | 2,709
11 May 2017 #13
you seem to be good at weeding out the duffers

Usually, it's not what they say that's important, but what they fail to say. Just ask yourself if you were a person in the position they claim they are, how would you go about asking your question? What information would you include? Someone who dances around clearly important information and tries hard to steer you away when you ask about it is obviously being less than honest. They think that they are not lying, but they are certainly not telling the truth. It's basically little different than common trolling.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
11 May 2017 #14
There is no need for you ta pass a B1 Polish exam, nor is there a need for you to provide proof of income or health insurance. simple really.

That's no longer the case. Those are the old rules, but the Law on Citizenship from 2012 abolished it.

polish-citizenship.eu/foreigners.html contains the updated rules. B1 is obligatory for those that want citizenship through naturalisation.
OP MarkC 6 | 20
11 May 2017 #15
I can't imagine why anyone in a genuine marriage would do that.

Dominic, in my case I'm posting a reasonable question in the correct section on a relevant web forum.

As for why I'm posting here, have you experienced the bureaucracy? One person says one thing, another something different. And, that's not including the conflicting information on the web. To give you an example, dolnoslask posted outdated information which he claimed was the way to go, turns out it isn't.

As for fishing my way into the EU, there is no need as I'm an EU citizen (British). I simply wish to obtain Polish citizenship as I'm now living here full time, I've a son, wife, and business here, plus, I've integrated myself into the Polish society quite well.
DominicB - | 2,709
11 May 2017 #16
@MarkC

Sorry, bud, but that doesn't change the fact that the best place to get the information you seek is at the wydział do spraw cudzoziemskich, and not on some internet forum, where you will only get more conflicting information, as you indeed did.

I will give you one great tip though. If you're living in Dolnośląskie, then the definitive person to talk to is Tomasz Bruder, the director at the WdSC. He treated me splendidly and professionally. Furthermore, he's the only one whose opinion and decision matter in that wojewódzstwo. If you live elsewhere, make an appointment to talk to the director of your WdSC.
Atch 17 | 3,424
12 May 2017 #17
have you experienced the bureaucracy?

It's not bureaucracy, it's incompetence. Even lawyers will give you conflicting or inaccurate information. Par of it is lack of experience in dealing with these matters in sufficiently large volume on a day to day basis. Maybe you're approaching somebody who hasn't dealt with this kind of thing for a couple of years (if at all) and they can't remember the details so they just say whatever they think they remember. Dominic is right that whenever possible you have to go straight to the top. Be insistent about it. After all this time in Poland you should have learned by now how to deal with underlings - firmly!
DominicB - | 2,709
12 May 2017 #18
you're approaching somebody who hasn't dealt with this kind of thing

When clerks find themselves in this position, in order not to lose face and maintain superiority, they will often just make $hit up rather than admit that they don't know and consult their boss. Then if you ask to speak to the boss, they will dig their heels in and block access in any way they can. The trick is to bypass the lower levels from the very beginning and go directly to the top. That's a lot easier than trying to jump over all the hurdles they will put in your way.
jon357 66 | 16,965
12 May 2017 #19
So you're suggesting he contacts:

Tomasz Bruder, the director at the WdSC

DominicB - | 2,709
12 May 2017 #20
@jon357

Only if he lives in Dolnośląskie.
jon357 66 | 16,965
12 May 2017 #21
@DominicB
And has a time machine.
DominicB - | 2,709
12 May 2017 #22
@jon357

That's a recent change. His profile on the website of his new employer is not even filled in yet.

All the more reason to contact him, though, regardless of where in Poland theOP lives. He is now the CEO of a law firm that gives advice on immigration matters:

beta.visaandwork.pl/en/index
jon357 66 | 16,965
12 May 2017 #23
Sounds like someone fired and trying to go freelance. There are a few businesses like that. They were useful back in the 90s though very little point nowadays, especially as the issue (for those of us like the OP, a citizen of an EU country) the issue and procedure is clear cut and unambiguous.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2017 #24
He is now the CEO of a law firm that gives advice on immigration matters:

That company is a joke. It's actually run/controlled by Indians, and the real man behind the company doesn't even know the difference between a Karta Pobytu and the Zaświadczenie o Zarejestrowaniu Pobytu Obywatela Unii Europejskiej.
Timmo
12 May 2017 #25
Dolnaslask,

You are not right.
a foreigner residing continuously in Poland for at least 2 years on the basis of a permanent residence permit and who has been married to a Polish citizen for at least three years or holds no citizenship

So according to the act you have to be married 5 years. Having a permament residence does not give you a chance to apply polish citizenship
findpolishroots
31 May 2017 #26
Why do not you apply for granting Polish citizenship by the President of the Republic of Poland? In my opinion, it's easier and faster for you!


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