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EU citizen residency certificate to live in Poland


Harry
24 May 2010 #1
Anybody applied for one recently? I'm looking at the info for Warsaw now and it seems that they want 640zl for the thing! Bit steep given that they don't even give any thing more than a piece of paper with your name on it!
jonni 16 | 2,485
24 May 2010 #2
I noticed that too. But If you don't get one, you still have the right to live and work there (or anywhere else in our great Union). If you have a phone etc anyway (or put it in a wife or partner's name, whatever), don't want credit (a mugs' game anyway) and don't wish to vote in elections; there's no need to get one.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
24 May 2010 #3
I'm looking at the info for Warsaw now and it seems that they want 640zl for the thing!

Where on earth are they saying that? Sounds like someone cocked up and put the wrong details down - it's supposed to be a token fee - 1zl.

From here - cudzoziemcy.info.pl/obywatel_ue_1_1.php

OBOWIĄZUJĄCE OP£ATY

Przy odbiorze zaświadczenia o zarejestrowaniu pobytu obywatela Unii Europejskiej okazuje się ważny dokument podróży lub inny dokument potwierdzający tożsamość i obywatelstwo oraz dowód uiszczenia należnej opłaty w wysokości 1 zł, a przypadku gdy odbioru dokonuje
pełnomocnik wnioskodawcy - także pełnomocnictwo do odbioru zaświadczenia.

internaldialog 4 | 145
24 May 2010 #4
can i clarify then would as a University student be required to obtain one of these when i do a 48 wk paid placement in Poland?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
24 May 2010 #5
In theory, yes.

In reality? No-one cares, unless you want to vote/get credit/vote in local or European elections.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
24 May 2010 #6
get credit

What does it do for you to enable you to get credit?
I don't understand this, surely it is up to the bank if they give you credit based on income or something else not this document? and if you are an E.U. citizen you can get credit here with out this EU citizen residency certificate(non-E.U. credits don't concern me).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
24 May 2010 #7
What does it do for you to enable you to get credit?

Gives you the magic PESEL number - which some lenders will want to see from someone resident in Poland. For instance - Media Markt will only allow someone to take something on credit if the person has a valid PESEL and 5 year residence card (or better).

I don't understand this, surely it is up to the bank if they give you credit based on income or something else not this document? and if you are an E.U. citizen you can get credit here with out this EU citizen residency certificate(non-E.U. credits don't concern me).

For them, it's a good way to check if you actually plan to stay here - it very much depends on the individual bank and their policies, though.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
24 May 2010 #8
magic PESEL number

Ahhhh the ever illusive magic number, I'm haven't needed one so far, I have been asked but it has not hindered me thus far.

Thanks for the reply.
OP Harry
26 May 2010 #9
Next question about this: I note that they are still asking for a copy of a signed tenancy agreement. Which is a problem in a country where few landlords pay tax on rental income. This won’t affect me (I own my flat) but is proving a problem for a mate of mine. He’s wondering whether he can register at somewhere he doesn’t actually live (probably my place) and use that address. Are there still police checks on EU citizens?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
26 May 2010 #10
Are there still police checks on EU citizens?

There are, but they're cursory to say the least - if they turn up and you're not there, the most they'll do is leave a contact number and ask the person to call them. As far as I can tell, most of the time, they aren't even bothering to do that - so no sweat really.
MIPK - | 69
26 May 2010 #11
trying to get my head around all this stuff at the moment too before heading over in October. As far as i can tell on my own research looking at local city hall website and BIP docs I can get zameldowanie/meldunek for greater than 3 months with passport, completed form and my girlfriends old man as the owner of where i'll be initially staying to register and its free of charge. (not sure if the apply after 4 days arrival still applies) Still trying to find out about the residency card (karta pobytu) and what its involved there... or if it still exists.. any info appreciated.. or any correction/clarification of what i've written so far appreciated..
lateStarter 2 | 45
26 May 2010 #12
I'm curious if something like this might make it easier for me to get contract work in other EU countries (for example Ireland). I have a permanent resident card but as an American citizen, although I can work in Poland, every recruitment agency I have dealt with in other EU countries, so far has balked - not worth their time! My wife is Polish and it seems like the easiest thing for us to do, would be to have her go live in the 'other' country first, and then bring me over.

I'd really just like to be able to go and work on short 3-6 month contracts but being a non-EU citizen makes it very difficult! Hard to believ that I could just buy a piece of paper that would solve this problem.
Moonlighting 31 | 234
26 May 2010 #13
Here is how things worked for me when I settled to Kraków last December. Might be useful for new candidates.

1- On arrival day I kept the boarding pass of my flight to testify the first day of presence on Polish territory (no identity check at Kraków Airport). I was staying at a Polish friend's flat (owner of the flat) and we went to the "urząd miasta" together with the notary deed proving ownership, and my passport. I was registered at this address and got a residency certificate for 3 months (Potwierdzenie zameldowania).

2- One week later, I got myself a flat to rent, and had to show my passport and Potwierdzenie zameldowania to the landlord.

3- Six weeks later, I went to the Foreigners Office in Kraków. It's not at the "urząd miasta", this time it's the building of "województwo".

I requested a residency permit for beyond 3 months and, as Delphi pointed out, it costed 1zł. The form you must fill-up is written in Polish, English and French.

The staff at the Foreigners Office speaks Polish and English. I was given the "code of conduct" for foreigners which is available in Polish, English or French.

They asked for 4 documents: passport, Potwierdzenie zameldowania, European card of medical insurance, and work-related document to prove an income allowing to pay for a living in Poland. In my case, work-related document was the registration at KRS of the company I established the month before. Actually they checked it for me, because I hadn't been notified yet by KRS that my company was "accepted" so this is how I got to know about it :-).

Since I hadn't yet modified the Potwierdzenie zameldowania with my new address, they refused to write my new address on the residency card and told me they would update it later.

I was not questioned by any policeman, as opposed to what some forum members experienced.
I got my residency card 8 days after I applied, with no limit date on it.
It is printed on an A4 paper on both sides, within a frame. You must actually cut it yourself, fold it in two and keep it in your wallet.

4- Armed with my residency card, passport and contract for renting the flat, I went back to the "urząd miasta" to unregister my previous address and register the new one (yes, these are distinct operations involving different papers) and I also applied for a PESEL number.

They printed a new Potwierdzenie zameldowania showing my new address.

5- I got the PESEL number 10 days later. For this I went back again to "urząd miasta" and they printed a new Potwierdzenie zameldowania indicating my PESEL number.

5- I went back to the Foreigners Office with all my papers and asked for an updated residency card. For this I paid again 1zł.

I got the new card a week or so after applying, still no limit validity date (so I assume it's the regular 5 years). The new card indicates my new address and PESEL.

6- Finally I went to the ZUS office to register for social and medical security.

7- I also unregistered remotely (by registered mail) from the population books in my country and when the mayor's office sent me the confirmation, I asked for a new identity card to my embassy in Warsaw. I sent them copies of all documents and they didn't even asked me to come and fetch it personally.

I got my identity card 1 month after applying. But these are matters with my native country, not with Poland.

8- Still one thing to do: exchange my driving licence. Yeah, I really look young on that old picture :-).

As a conclusion:
- It's horrible how much time you waste at the Polish administration with their bureaucracy!
- I would recommend, when you settle in Poland, to bring with you a birth certificate and a residency certificate from your native country. It is not required but it makes things easier. For example when they ask you in Polish (if you're not good at all in Polish) to spell the names of your parents, dates and place of birth, original address and things like that. You just put the documents under their nose and point with your finger.

- SeanBM, how can you live without a PESEL? It makes things so much easier. Can you actually benefit from Polish social security and medical care if you don't have a PESEL?
MIPK - | 69
26 May 2010 #14
moonlighting, fantastic response!! greatly appreciated! in process of getting birth certificate apostilled and translated at the moment... dont have a residency certificate for my country as hold british & australian passports but will be arriving/staying using my british EU passport.. no job lined up yet but will hopefully sort out that soon :) thanks again!!
internaldialog 4 | 145
26 May 2010 #15
Moonlighting

that post should be a piece on its own and closed just as reference perhaps in a thread allocated or something to posts of usefulness to first timers .. just a suggestion Mods/Admin ;) noted

I've had one of them 3 month residence permits though ... :) and i still have a copy of it here in UK.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
26 May 2010 #16
You must actually cut it yourself, fold it in two and keep it in your wallet.

There's no obligation to carry it - as I understand it, it isn't proof of identity anyway, but rather "confirmation of the right of residence as a European Union national" and thus useless for any sort of identification purposes.

Can you actually benefit from Polish social security and medical care if you don't have a PESEL?

Yes, of course. Medical care depends on ZUS contributions, nothing more - likewise, social security depends on your record at the Urzad Skarbowy. It's possible that some people might argue, but having a PESEL isn't a requirement for non-Polish citizens.

One thing - no PESEL means no driving record with the police and thus no points. It's why it's a good idea not to hold a Polish licence - most police aren't tuned into the fact that we foreigners can have a PESEL number and it's best to not let them know that ;)

(not sure if the apply after 4 days arrival still applies)

If they ask you, tell them any old rubbish about how you crossed a few days ago. They've no way of checking whatsoever.

Hard to believ that I could just buy a piece of paper that would solve this problem.

That's because it won't - as a non-EU citizen, you aren't entitled to the EU residence permit. You've already got permanent residence, but you can only exercise your treaty rights if your wife accompanies you - you can't go elsewhere without her to work. But if you have permanent residence, aren't you entitled to citizenship - you can apply for it after as little as 3 years of marriage.

My wife is Polish and it seems like the easiest thing for us to do, would be to have her go live in the 'other' country first, and then bring me over.

In theory, yes. But remember, there are still quite a few restrictions for Poles - the UK requires the WRS registration, Germany and Austria still require work permits, and it's not just as simple as moving elsewhere and working legally. You'll also have to deal with all the bureaucracy in other countries, including applying for a residence permit - and believe me, Poland is quite easy when it comes to this kind of thing.

but will be arriving/staying using my british EU passport

You don't actually need the EU residence permit at all - if you don't have a reason for obtaining it, then you might as well not bother.

residency certificate from your native country

Do other countries have this insane system of registration, too?
Moonlighting 31 | 234
26 May 2010 #17
Maybe it would also be interesting to make a more general comment about migrating to Poland. Sometimes, when I read comments on this forum from people who want to move to Poland, I wonder whether they are walking on the moon or just smoking too much pot ;-).

1. Ask yourself the question seriously: why exactly do you want to move to Poland? Like every country, it has fantastic aspects, but other aspects can be a nightmare. As some members pointed out in other threads, Poland is not a country for everyone.

2. Do you speak at least a little bit of Polish? It's insane to move to another country, all by yourself, without knowing anything to the local language. It's a suicide. Stop assuming that everyone here, including doctors and civil servants, speaks your language whichever it is.

3. If you move, get a job BEFORE. Stop assuming that Polish employers will give you a job at once. Poland doesn't need us.

4. Take with you as many official documents as possible from your native country. You never know exactly what Poland will request from you. It may vary according to your "profile" (sorry if this looks discriminating) or where you come from (European Union, Schengen zone, non-E.U.). Read the different stories on this forum. In my case I took the following documents, all made during the last 6 weeks before my move (that means the end of 2009):

- certificate of birth
- certificate of residency
- certificate that I have the right to social security in my country until the end of 2010 (not 2009)
- European card of social security
- passport valid until beyond the first 3 months of intended temporary residency
- certificate from the Police stating that I was never convicted
- history of my business from my country's equivalent of KRS+REGON, to show that my business plans in Poland are just the continuity of what I was doing for the past 12 years

- certificate from a language school that I succesfully attended Polish classes for the past 2 years
- college (university) diploma
- blood test to certify that I don't have AIDS or hepatitis

The only document that was in fact requested from me was the blood test. I must have minor surgery on the eyelid to remove a sty and the Polish doctor told me that, before any operation, the patient must have received a vaccination against hepatitis. To prove that I didn't have hepatitis yet I had to present her with a blood test.

5. Once you are sure that you have residency permit, a job, and the right to benefit of Polish social security (and only after that), you can do the procedure to "resign" from your country and disconnect completely if you want.

(residency permit)There's no obligation to carry it - as I understand it, it isn't proof of identity anyway, but rather "confirmation of the right of residence as a European Union national" and thus useless for any sort of identification purposes.

The guy at the Foreigners Office told me I had to keep it with me all the time along with passport or identity card. It was later confirmed to me by an employee of the embassy.

Medical care depends on ZUS contributions, nothing more - likewise, social security depends on your record at the Urzad Skarbowy. It's possible that some people might argue, but having a PESEL isn't a requirement for non-Polish citizens.

You must be right, and I simply forgot. I had in mind that PESEL was required in order to register at ZUS.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
26 May 2010 #18
The guy at the Foreigners Office told me I had to keep it with me all the time along with passport or identity card. It was later confirmed to me by an employee of the embassy.

That's a classic case of where the law is simply unworkable - as an EU citizen, you have the right to be in Poland for up to 3 months. With no systematic recording of exits and entries, there is absolutely no way that they can enforce any requirement to carry it.

It's also worth noting that there is no requirement to carry proof of registration in the country - and given that the residence certificate is just a piece of paper confirming your EU rights and nothing more, it would seem highly unlikely that it could be used against you. In legal terms, it would seem that even if they requested to see it, you simply have to tell them that you crossed the border yesterday - which means that you're legally in Poland.

I will actually ask a lawyer student of mine to investigate what the law actually says in regards to the piece of paper - I've never seen anything that confirms that you must carry it, and no-one I know does so.

Carrying the national identity card is a different story - as I understand it, the attitude is that EU citizens who have ID cards should carry them - while those that don't should at least carry some sort of photographic ID. And of course, non-EU citizens should at least carry their Karta Pobytu at all times.

It's a bit like the 4 day registration requirement - perhaps it's the law, but it's unworkable in practice for non-Polish EU citizens.

I guess it's like all things here - the law may say one thing, the reality is somewhat different.
MIPK - | 69
27 May 2010 #19
I wonder whether they are walking on the moon or just smoking too much pot ;-).

not sure if that was a dig at me or not but will take it light heartedly.... thanks for your help, been greatly appreciated... as for the rest, i know a bit of Polish (but never easy to learn when no classes available locally and only surrounded by english speakers everyday, best place to learn is in the country). why move? for love of course! for the country, for my friends and my girl, and its going to be cheaper to live there than keep on paying for the 4-5 flights a year from Oz to Poland!!! :) job, agree better to get before leaving and thats exactly what i plan to do! Thanks again for all the advice.

We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend. -Robert Louis Stevenson
peterweg 37 | 2,319
27 May 2010 #20
Do other countries have this insane system of registration, too?

Yes, Spain and France for certain. UK is unusual in that respect.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
27 May 2010 #21
job, agree better to get before leaving and thats exactly what i plan to do!

I warn you - it's nearly impossible to obtain such a thing.
MIPK - | 69
27 May 2010 #22
hehe... thats what the girlfriend said! but she also said i could be housekeeper and head chef if i don't find anything by time i'm ready to head over :D
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
27 May 2010 #23
Housekeeper? Not likely at all.

Head chef? Not impossible, but you will need to be exceptional and be living in a big city to pull that off.

Incidentally, do you hold an EU passport?
MIPK - | 69
27 May 2010 #24
I think she meant her housekeeper and personal chef ;)
and yes got a british passport
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
27 May 2010 #25
- SeanBM, how can you live without a PESEL?It makes things so much easier.

Very easily, I don't need it.
Apparently I don't even need it to vote but I don't vote here anyway.
I use my passport or driving licence as my I.D.
the only time I have ever needed it was for some outdated computer systems that will not process your application without one, this is easy to get around as you can just make one up on the spot.

It really doesn't effect me at all and I have been living here for years.

What do you need a PESEL for?

Can you actually benefit from Polish social security and medical care if you don't have a PESEL?

I pay ZUS, the PESEL number does not entitle you to social security, medical care and accident insurance, ZUS does.
therobside 2 | 20
27 May 2010 #26
Right now I am working on an American contract in Poland. I am a Polish citizen (have a PESEL) and in a month's time, I will have my Dowod Osobisty. My question is regarding medical care. Will the ZUS zaklad have any issues with the fact that in the eyes of Poland, I am 'unemployed'? If need be, can I get medical care without paying huge lumps of money?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,311
27 May 2010 #27
Will the ZUS zaklad have any issues with the fact that in the eyes of Poland, I am 'unemployed'? If need be, can I get medical care without paying huge lumps of money?

You should not confound the ZUS with health insurance. These are separate things. ZUS, as its name indicates - Zakład Ubezpieczeń Społecznych - deals with social security, that is with your pension and the like, whereas the cost of your health insurance (ubezpieczenie zdrowotne) is deducted from your salary to the account of NFZ - Narodowy Fundusz Zdrowia.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
27 May 2010 #28
I pay three seperate payments in to ZUS: social (pension is the bulk), health (insurance) and (accident) insurance, perhaps it goes from ZUS to NFZ?
therobside 2 | 20
27 May 2010 #29
Thank you for the response Ziemowit. If I am not currently paying into the NFZ, can I still receive medical treatment as a polish citizen?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,311
27 May 2010 #30
SeanBM
I think it is the case - ZUS acts as the intermediate between accounts. The 9% of the employee's gross personal income forming the health insurance sum is financed as follows: 7,75% of it is deducted from your PIT and the remaining 1,25% is deducted from your net personal income.

therobside
You can either pay an insurance to the NFZ, or you can buy an insurance with a private company.


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