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Bureaucracy in Poland


delphiandomine 83 | 17,726
24 Jan 2010 #31
The difference between UK and Polish bureaucracy is that in the UK you have competent employee,s.

No they don't. The UK Jobcentres are staffed by people who know how to do nothing else except fill in forms - they're certainly not able to use their initative to find a job for you. The tax offices, for so long, a bastion of common sense - are now being turned into "by appointment only" - or of course, you can use the phones available to call someone who is following a script and has no idea about anything that isn't in their script.

Or we could talk about councils, with their complete inability to do anything that makes sense. The internet is full of stories of how UK councils have caused trouble for families - and we won't even discuss the way that social services very often have their own agenda.

In Poland you have family and close friends wormed into a closed-shop workplace.

Times are changing. I deal with the Urząd Pracy quite often, and every time I go there, it's a pleasure. I even can fax job adverts now straight to them as they know me - all in all, they're a dream to work with. Even with cases where legally, they shouldn't do something, they often do it with a wink and a smile.

Taxes? I have an accountant to deal with that. There are failings in Poland, such as the requirement for everyone to submit a tax return at the end of the year - but all in all, the system is working.

Of course there's elements of stupidity, such as the Poznan foreigners office refusing to accept private health insurance for EU citizens, but times are a-changing for the better. There's still some shocking examples, such as every document needing to be checked and stamped - but this is very much a governmental issue.

I've had some very satisfactory dealings with an office in rural Dolnoslaskie recently - they even provided an invoice by post after doing the service for me. This just shows that times are indeed changing - and at least in my experience, most problems are caused by the individual, not by the bureaucrat.
Krakowska
24 Jan 2010 #32
If such nightmares are happening to POLISH speaking citizens,
just imagine what TOTAL LIFETHREATENING NIGHTMARE
it is for all those foreigners who cannot understand polish language!

delphiandomine 83 | 17,726
24 Jan 2010 #33
just imagine what TOTAL LIFETHREATENING NIGHTMARE
it is for all those foreigners who cannot understand polish language!

Jesus Mark, have you finally lost the plot completely?

I'm not aware of anyone who's life was threatened by an inability to understand someone at the Foreigners Office!
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Jan 2010 #34
Perhaps he was trying to persuade them that he wanted to buy a new flat for 200 PLN m2?
crowdedcold
29 Jan 2010 #35
I waited for 25 days for a simple stamp on a document I really need from Administration.

Tehn I waited in long queue and surprise... I needed one new document for that... another 25 days to wait :(

Polish bureacracy sucks really bad
Seanus 15 | 19,706
29 Jan 2010 #36
They are just procedural. Are you some kind of important figure that you have to live your life in a hurry? Can't you kick back, pause for breath and smell the roses? ;)

The main problem lies in those native speakers who can't speak Polish. Many of the old clerks will insist on Polish being used. That would be one criticism, that they didn't voluntarily furnish me with 2 copies (English and Polish) of a given document which they are obliged to do under EU Law.

Other than that, it's just a step-by-step affair. If you are systematic and play ball, all should go well.
convex 20 | 3,978
29 Jan 2010 #37
They are just procedural. Are you some kind of important figure that you have to live your life in a hurry? Can't you kick back, pause for breath and smell the roses? ;)

Some of us like pausing for a breath and smelling the roses on our own time. We like to take vacations, plan things out, not wait in offices... that kind of thing.

The main problem is the mindset that you are expected to **** away hours waiting in line or driving around the city to get signatures and stamps when you could be out in the park smelling the roses.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
29 Jan 2010 #38
What stamps, for example? I'm glad that I have my own pieczątka as it broadly resembles a hanko, a Japanese stamp. It gives extra protection. I need my stamp and my signature too.

Signatures are needed to verify and authenticate. There is no getting round that. Things go through various channels in virtually every civilised country or am I wrong? ;)
convex 20 | 3,978
29 Jan 2010 #39
What stamps, for example? I'm glad that I have my own pieczątka as it broadly resembles a hanko, a Japanese stamp. It gives extra protection. I need my stamp and my signature too.

I'm working with these folks at the moment.
ulc.gov.pl

What would otherwise take 6 months in any other EASA country is going on two years here. And it is down to stamps and signatures. To a more common example, my girlfriend has to take time off from work to get her paperwork stamped and signed in order to get her scholarship for university. Things like having to come in and verify your name and billing address for the new semester in person instead of carrying it over from the previous verification.

Signatures are needed to verify and authenticate. There is no getting round that. Things go through various channels in virtually every civilised country or am I wrong? ;)

Indeed, but it's a question of when the document in question is presented for you to sign...and that the signed and stamped piece of paper needs to be processed before being able to get to the next level of signing and stamping. Things moving in a serial fashion instead of parallel. That's my biggest complaint.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Jan 2010 #40
Then you are privy to info that I am not so, not wanting to doubt your sincerity, I believe you. I have heard some horror stories and am not gonna comment on things that I have no experience of. My scholarship was easy. I applied, got a letter to Peterkins (a solicitors' firm), went for interview and got a prestigious bursary. No protracted procedures. I think here it may well be different.
convex 20 | 3,978
30 Jan 2010 #41
She'll be done next year which is about the same time that I expect to have the first official paying flight :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Jan 2010 #42
How is the matriculation process here? I remember having to get a new student card each year in my first course. I felt that to be bureaucratic in and of itself.
convex 20 | 3,978
30 Jan 2010 #43
She's already passed out, has to wake up tomorrow morning for a class (muahaha).

I think I might start a specialty store of items geared towards people that work behind glass windows all day.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Jan 2010 #44
We see the lack of commitment to change. Noises are made but nothing is done. Tusk planned a major streamlining for last year to reduce red tape but the plug was seemingly pulled. Another non-starter!
convex 20 | 3,978
30 Jan 2010 #45
Doesn't look like there are any plans on joining ERM any time soon either. Euro in 2020?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Jan 2010 #46
The Euro will mainly be a good thing for rich people in Poland. I am not for it as property prices will soar and price out far too many.
convex 20 | 3,978
30 Jan 2010 #47
Ha, far too many are already priced out (going to show restraint and leave it that, i'm part of the bubble crowd)!

Housing prices have dropped in Slovakia since the introduction of the euro by the way... along with the rest of the economy because Slovakia no longer has control over it's monetary policy. Going to the Euro is going to kill the reason that so much FDI comes to Poland, cheap labor.

But that's another thread. It was another part of PO's platform (platforms platform?) that isn't going to be realized.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Jan 2010 #48
Citizens' Platform (PO). I really feel that the Euro will sting Poland when introduced. Slovakia is a different kettle of fish and changes come about for different reasons.

Wow, I've just heard a hammer&tongs exchange between my wife and the local admin here. The admin claimed they were waiting for 'further specifics' and that he didn't have the competence to handle the matter (then why answer the phone?). There was a heated ding-dong but here's the funny part. It was all over a frickin lightbulb.

The level of resistance they were putting up in their little pit was embarrassing. We pay them 50PLN a month personally and what do they do? Nothing! They receive a tidy sum from this strip of flats (15 flats x 7blocks at 50PLN a pop). They have such a begrudging mentality. I can't really be doing with them. They quote me this regulation and that but it's a lightbulb for crying out loud. Besides, they live just 5 mins away from here.

Many older Poles in local admin are a tragic breed!
tcchapman1981 2 | 7
12 Oct 2011 #49
Tell me about the older, stubborn bred office workers!!! They know everything (or so they think) the women in the offices here think everyone outside our town is wrong, even the Polish. Letters from the embassy about my marriage were wrong, my birth certificate was wrong because it was missing a full stop (joke there) everything is wrong. Do these people get employed to make things more easy or more difficult? ooooooh your english!! oooooo nie this is no good!!! wham and the stamp goes back on the pad without touching the paper!! Cheers luv!!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Oct 2011 #50
Oh, they love pointing out if you've made a mistake. Their treatment of Poles is bad too, you are right enough. My father-in-law is one of the most respectful and nicest guys I have ever met. They told him to redo a form for no good reason and, being the good man he is, just winked at me as if to say 'it's all under control'. However, I could tell that she had got to him a little. We were there for a long time and rather than spell it out to us clearly one time, she kept waving her arms and giving little bits of info. Very nasty woman!

However, the courageous can break away from that and be nice :)
roca 7 | 43
19 Dec 2011 #51
Merged: Polish bureaucracy; a communist heritage

I think this fits very well to the polish bureaucracy as well

tryukraine.com/society/bureaucracy.shtml
wielki pan 2 | 250
19 Dec 2011 #52
And I don't like the way Poles tend to always put their country down, even when it is no worse than any other country in the world.

lol... what utter rubbish. I am still waiting for permission to build a house in Poland and have spend almost 2 years fight with the authorities. Magdalena who are you trying to fool?
roca 7 | 43
19 Dec 2011 #53
I'm sorry for you, polish bureaucracy is still soviet and extremely inefficient. The people ruling that bureaucracy either are so stupid to see it is extremely inefficient and leads to corruption or have developed that stupid soviet bureaucracy intentionally to discourage any individual initiative and stop any development in Poland for the better.

I simply call them Bolsheviks


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