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Bank accounts taxed by up to 10%. Can it happen in Poland?

kondzior 12 | 1,221
24 Mar 2013 #121
The French and German banks are exposed to Cyprus and Greece, so these forced bailouts aren't for the benefit of Cyprus and Greece. If it was for their benefit, they would allow them to do a form of default or allow the worst of the Cyprus and Greek banks to declare bankruptcy, while insuring the deposits of citizens up to a limit. This is the same kind of game being played with USA bailouts, where they were forced to bailout irresponsible American banks. Because Western governments use fractional reserve banking, which forces inflation over time, said governments have to invest into the stock market to maintain the values of pension funds, social security, etc. Banks going bust would lead to banks pulling out of the stock market, causing your pension funds, social security funds, etc to drastically depreciate in value. Fractional reserve banking therefore creates a parasitic relationship between banks and government. And when hard choices have to be made, the populace gets screwed for the benefit of the financially well-connected. What we have is a two-tiered system of economics.

Socialism for the banks during hard times, capitalism for everyone else.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
24 Mar 2013 #122
So what went wrong?The eurozone did.Last year,

Of course Cyprus is faultless for of billions of Greek debt in the first place. And building up a debt load 8x GDP. Its all the EU's fault.

And what did they lose the other 10billion on?
OP poland_
25 Mar 2013 #123
Its all the EU's fault.

Cyprus, the European Union and the International Monetary Fund have agreed a new plan to resolve the island's bank and finance a rescue of the country, an EU official said early on Monday.

The proposal, which will now be presented to euro zone finance ministers for discussion, will involve setting up a "good bank" and a "bad bank" and will mean that Popular Bank of Cyprus, known as Laiki, will effectively be shut down.

Deposits below 100,000 euros in Laiki will be transferred to Bank of Cyprus. Deposits above 100,000 euros, which under EU law are not insured, will be frozen and will be used to resolve debt. It remains unclear how large the writedown on those funds will be.

The EU spokesman said there would be no "levy" imposed on any Cypriot banks, with the package requiring a full "bail-in" of uninsured depositors, which is likely to mean heavy losses for those with large holdings in Laiki and potentially Bank of Cyprus, where many Russians hold bank accounts.
Palivec - | 380
25 Mar 2013 #124
So what went wrong?

No, it was the reckless behavious of the Cypriot banks who didn't get out of Greece in the months before the Greek bail-out. They even bought *more* Greek shares during the Greek crisis, which allowed them to offer 4-5% interests on deposits, while in the rest of Europe you were lucky to get 1,5%!

And th Greek money was gone anyway, since Greece is broke.

This has led to a (so-far) unique and controversial raid on bank deposits, even though the initial idea of taxing protected deposits under €100,000 has been dropped.

That's not unique, that always happens when a bank goes bankrupt. And the 100.000€ would be gone too, since Cyprus, like the banks, is broke too. It's the *generousness* of the international community that saves most of this money.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
25 Mar 2013 #125
Until 2008 only 90% of the first 20K was covered. After that depositors could get nothing.
Wroclaw Boy
25 Mar 2013 #126
So Iceland a few years ago, then US banks hit crises, Spain, Ireland, Greece, Portugal, UK etc all follow suit with banks in serious trouble........whats next?

The writing was on the wall from Iceland, but nobody saw it coming. I say again - whats next?
peterweg 37 | 2,320
25 Mar 2013 #127
I say again - whats next?

Spain? Italy?

Malta, Luxembourg and Slovakia all for it.
Marek11111 9 | 816
25 Mar 2013 #128
Malta, Luxembourg and Slovakia all for it.

it is not going to be sahre holder or bond holders it is going to be savers, good thing Poland did not convert to euro.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
26 Mar 2013 #129
Share holders and bond holders in Cyprus lost everything. This is why bank shares are falling, in future only <100k depositors will be protected (i.e. the current legal position).

Italy won't crash, far to many small savers who will not, cannot pull out.
kondzior 12 | 1,221
27 Mar 2013 #130
The banks do not pay out the 100k that is insured. Neither do tax payers. The banks pay into an insurance fund that handles that, since a failing bank can't be trusted to have that money on-hand, etc.

Allowing a bank to totally fail and the people to walk away with their 100k that is insured is a far, far, better solution than stealing money out of private accounts to continue the bank. If banks are not allowed to go under, they will continue to make riskier and riskier moves because there is no consequence for doing so.

As soon as one or two go under, the rest will smarten up and stop asking for free money.
Wroclaw Boy
27 Mar 2013 #131
I dont think they could afford to give the people back even fractions of their money, if the banks aint got any money where would the insurance companies get it from? Stealing was the only option, and that's exactly what they did.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
27 Mar 2013 #132
Stealing was the only option, and that's exactly what they did.

No stealing.

Depositors with less than 100K were protected as per the law and as is normal in banks world wide.

Anyone with more the 100K should have paid for better advice.
kondzior 12 | 1,221
28 Mar 2013 #133
if the banks aint got any money where would the insurance companies get it from?
Educate yourself.

Stealing was the only option.

I would rather let the bank collapse and even pay out the savers with their tax money - it's not like it's all their money anyway.
Wroclaw Boy
28 Mar 2013 #134

yes, so who insures Cyprus banks and where is that insurance money deposited?
kondzior 12 | 1,221
1 Apr 2013 #135
Don't worry guys, the looting of Cypriot savers is now a template to be used for the entire Europa very soon!

Klaas Knot the Dutch Central Bank chief tells so:

Gotta love the direct and undiluted Dutch way of telling things how they are.
1 Apr 2013 #136
Banks that passed the EU stress tests are now insolvent. And some people want to blame the depositors. I think with that erroneous information, the EU should pay for it all. Who would trust any of their metrics again, or their word that they will not raid the savings elsewhere?
OP poland_
5 Apr 2013 #137

Dutch Bank ABN Amro has sent a letter to clients this weekend informing them that they will halt extradition and physical delivery of their clients' gold holdings effective April 2012.
jon357 71 | 21,086
5 Apr 2013 #138

No. They're just switching custodians from Deutsches Bank at the same time as moving to paperless trading - a result of the merger with Fortis. No mystery.

Interesting though that the exact phrase you use, capitals, punctuation and all, is identical to the 'headline' in some internet trash called the 'Daily Sheeple'. You cut n' paste panickmonger, you.
OP poland_
5 Apr 2013 #139
The headline is on a lot of different sites and news channels, I admit it was a 'cut n' paste panickmonger attempt' its Friday night and I am sure a few of the usual suspects will have fire in their belly :)
jon357 71 | 21,086
5 Apr 2013 #140
I envy you the fire. Just thinking a lot about banks etc and their potential instability/crapness for savings. Have you come across P2P lending? I use Funding Circle and just started with ThinCats. The former generally gets you 7%+ and the second around10%. Potentially not good news for the high street banks since these services are staring to really take off. Until of course they figure a way of muscling in.

Hang on! There's some gin left in my cabin...
OP poland_
5 Apr 2013 #141
There are similar schemes in Asia and Africa for micro loans, the investors did well from what I was reading, the UK pushed SEIS ttp:// in 2011, some companies formed off the back of the change in the laws. Thincats looks good on the surface jon357, I know nothing about them good luck with the investment 7-10% is good these days if your principal is guaranteed.
jon357 71 | 21,086
6 Apr 2013 #142
if your principal is guaranteed.

That's the drawback - it isn't. The upside is that their requirements for borrowers are tougher than for most banks and some of them spread your investment across various different loans in small lots so if one defaults, you still make a profit. Most p2p companies have a default rate of less than half a percent.

And of course your savings aren't funding bankers' bonuses.
FilipPZC - | 9
6 Apr 2013 #143
The banking system in Poland is clean. Thus there is a very low risk of a Cyprus-like default.
Polish banks did not invest in Greece's debt.

I am supporting the idea that the PIGS and Cyprus crisis might be in Poland's favour.
That is why we came up with the following idea to promote Polish investments:

little ironic, but catchy. :-)

OP poland_
6 Apr 2013 #144
Some feedback for you Filip.

1. It is crass to try to benefit from other peoples loses so blatantly, westerners will see it in a negative sense, may appeal to Polish market.

2. Spend your time on PF to find a proof reader for your website, you need one desperately.
3. When one does a google map search on your business address, the location and picture does not build confidence.

Just my two-penneth as an Investor.
FilipPZC - | 9
6 Apr 2013 #145

I wrote gently and in favour of our common (I guess) country.
So I do not understand where this your agression and hostility come from.

Maybe you the the reason of the lack of your sense of humour is the fact that you deposited some money in Bank of Cyprus? :-)

What is concerning you on the website? Let me know. It has been proof read.

According to the clients' confidence I see no problem with the address.
To your information there are some other aspects of location that one takes into consideration.
I hope you know what they are. If not you are not in the position to critisize.
jon357 71 | 21,086
6 Apr 2013 #146
It has been proof read.

Definitely not by an English-speaker. It screams second language at most readers and 'Polglish' at others; managing to come over as clumsy in the extreme.

If you aren't clued up enough to get Europe's language of business right on your website, what other things has your service overlooked?
OP poland_
6 Apr 2013 #147
I am British and live in Warszawa, there is no hostility just constructive criticism. Nothing personal.

Maybe you the the reason of the lack of your sense of humour is the fact that you deposited some money in Bank of Cyprus? :-)

When you are introducing a company, you only get one chance to create a first impression. My impression was a company/individuals attempting to cash in on other peoples misery. I would not trust people who advertised in this way, I don't believe I will be the only person to comment on your youtube vid. I personally believe it will cost you more in lost revenue than it will give you, due to the message.

According to the clients' confidence I see no problem with the address.

OK its your business.

To your information there are some other aspects of location that one takes into consideration.
I hope you know what they are. If not you are not in the position to critisize.

Filip, you are biting the hand which feeds. You have to accept you came to PF, placed a link to a video on a public debate about Cyprus crisis. I am assuming that as your youtube video is in English, you are targeting English speaking clients/investors?

I am informing you that I believe your current marketing Strategy will have limited success, I will also go one stage further and tell you your website is heavy on content and light on fact.

Nothing personal Filip, just being constructive.
FilipPZC - | 9
6 Apr 2013 #148
Our aim was to catch the attention. And it is working (we discuss it not only here).
To your information I studied on Cyprus and my friends from there told me they liked the idea.

There were lots of ads in the history that were taking advantage of irony.
Companies criticizing each other, etc. However not so many on a country level.
This one goes that way.

By aspects of location I meant the address that you googled and for some reason didn't like.
Also when it comes to the clients' confidence there is a description of team members. Among others my profile etc.
It is easy to check the credibility.

BTW: You are on the better position now. I cannot check your work for comparison.
The only thing I see here is "warszawski" nickname. No website no names, nothing.
I am transparent so more vulnerable than you are. ;-)

According to the website. This is not a website that is offering exact investment ideas.
We offer assistance on company formation, accounting services, etc (say technicalities and formalities).
So I believe the content is appropriate. What "facts" would you then expect to appear on the website like this?

OP poland_
6 Apr 2013 #149
So I believe the content is appropriate. What "facts" would you then expect to appear on the website like this?

In my opinion you have far too much content on your site.

The purpose of any business website is to turn browsers into users/buyers. People do not have the time to read your content cover to cover ' less is more ' you should be interested in catching the details of the browser NOT being a free informational service.

If you are a company's formation business. I still do not understand your message regarding CY. Its only two banks which have gone down and out f those they will make one good bank. the corp tax has increased to 12.5% same as Ireland.OK so the country needed bailout money because of the Greek bond debacle.

Also Greece,Ireland,Hungary,Spain,Portugal,Slovakia,Slovenia, Lithuania, Italy and Bulgaria have had or are having problems.

People have not been investing into Cyprus they have been using the country for avoidance schemes, so are you now suggesting you can limit your taxation by investing into a Polish holding company?
FilipPZC - | 9
8 Apr 2013 #150
Jon and what is the reason for your aggression?

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